Affirmative Action, Racial Discrimination Against Non-Minorities?

[keith99]

If a uniform testing procedure isn't strived for, what pray tell, are you looking for, im in suspense?

A student who would benefit from an education at the institution they are applying for. After that the student who is most qualified.

I'm not looking for a single objective measure like class ranking or GPA as either of those can fail.

Again I do not worship a measure being objective, especially because the question of which student is best (and in general which person is best at some activity) is not an objective question.

 

[Truth7t7]

A student who would benefit from an education at the institution they are applying for. After that the student who is most qualified.

I'm not looking for a single objective measure like class ranking or GPA as either of those can fail.

Again I do not worship a measure being objective, especially because the question of which student is best (and in general which person is best at some activity) is not an objective question.

You correct, it's subjective, and right back to the unfair subjective playing field of discrimination.

 

[Go Braves]

With the SAT you can retake the test as many times as you want. Actually I was running a fever of over 100 the day I took the subject tests and was splitting the day between taking the SAT and a swim meet.

So if you have the money you can retake the test until you score well. If you are poor that option may vanish.

BTW the testing conditions at Beverly Hills HIgh School were considerably better than where I took the first part of the SAT. Air conditioning and a significant increase in working space does matter.

Well, you can retake the SAT if you plan it out extremely well & you've got the money to spend on the test fees. The test dates are pretty spaced out from December to the fall. Then even in the fall, they're only monthly. It takes about 3 weeks to get the scores, so by the time you get them you may have missed the window for registering for the next test date. On account of that, it's really difficult to take 2 SATs in a row. Most who do pay the extra fee to get their score early for the 1st sitting & then the extra fee for registering late for the 2nd sitting. That's on top of the fee for the SAT itself. Lots just can't afford that.

A lot of folks wait till the fall of their senior year to take the SAT. That's not necessarily a lazy strategy, on account of how lots will do better then than earlier on. Some folks can only afford to take the test 1 time, so that's the best time to do it. The rich kids can start taking it in the 10th grade if they want, take it numerous times by the time they apply to college in 12th. Take prep classes & stuff.

 

[Go Braves]

Your blind to the truth, fisher didn't qualify for the 92% of admissions that applied to the top 10%, get your story straight!

LOL! I agree with this fellow

If you do not know the difference between you're and your then you're out!

You also need to work on your reading comprehension. I'm not the one who has failed to see the truth. Read my posts again.

Fisher was competing for the 8% left open, that was based upon race, income, foreign language, as qualifiers, capiche!

That's what I already explained to you. The gal failed to earn admission by being in the top 10% of her graduating class, so she was competing with the other failures from within Texas as well as the out of state, international applicants for the leftover spots. You're the one who needs to work on "capiching." Lol.

What Abigail Fisher’s Affirmative Action Case Was Really About

In 2008, the year Fisher sent in her application, competition to get into the crown jewel of the Texas university system was stiff. Students entering through the university's Top 10 program — a mechanism that granted automatic admission to any teen who graduated in the upper 10 percent of his or her high school class — claimed 92 percent of the in-state spots.

Fisher said in news reports that she hoped for the day universities selected students "solely based on their merit and if they work hard for it." But Fisher failed to graduate in the top 10 percent of her class, meaning she had to compete for the limited number of spaces up for grabs.

She and other applicants who did not make the cut were evaluated based on two scores. One allotted points for grades and test scores. The other, called a personal achievement index, awarded points for two required essays, leadership, activities, service and "special circumstances." Those included socioeconomic status of the student or the student's school, coming from a home with a single parent or one where English wasn't spoken. And race.

Those two scores, combined, determine admission.

Lol, what you've posted substantiates what I've written. Thanks. Since you're into coloring, I'll help you out. Your source points out what I've explained to you. There were only a limited number of spots up for grabs. Since she failed to earn a spot with grades, she was competing to get in based on other things like her test scores, talents. Her SAT score was below average, so that wouldn't have helped her out much. She said that being a talented cello player should have counted for more, but that's her opinion. The other applicants could have written better essays, shown more leadership, been more involved in their schools, on top of having better scores & grades.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL! I agree with this fellow


You also need to work on your reading comprehension. I'm not the one who has failed to see the truth. Read my posts again.



That's what I already explained to you. The gal failed to earn admission by being in the top 10% of her graduating class, so she was competing with the other failures from within Texas as well as the out of state, international applicants for the leftover spots. You're the one who needs to work on "capiching." Lol.




Lol, what you've posted substantiates what I've written. Thanks. Since you're into coloring, I'll help you out. Your source points out what I've explained to you. There were only a limited number of spots up for grabs. Since she failed to earn a spot with grades, she was competing to get in based on other things like her test scores, talents. Her SAT score was below average, so that wouldn't have helped her out much. She said that being a talented cello player should have counted for more, but that's her opinion. The other applicants could have written better essays, shown more leadership, been more involved in their schools, on top of having better scores & grades.

She was competing with the predominately football, basketball players, and other sport figures that didn't make the grades, lets be real!

100% discrimination!

 

[Go Braves]

She was competing with the predominately black football and basketball players, and other sport figures that didn't make the grades, lets be real!

100% discrimination!

Yes, let's be real and stop making things up to suit the narrative you like best like you just did.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, let's be real and stop making things up to suit the narrative you like best like you just did.

Braves you don't take 92% based upon test scores, and 8% based upon scores and subjectivity, it's unfair to include race, language, economic status, language.

100% test scores, whatever it may be is the only fair out.

If she was tested equally with all applicants, and didn't make the cut, tooooo bad!

She was subjected to a discriminatory process, fact!

Using the top 10% from various school districts is discriminatory in itself.

Perhaps the top 10% in a minority school district would not meet the same qualification in another district?

Perhaps 30% could have qualified higher on testing in a non minority district, but to accomodate a predomonately "Minority" school district, they guaranteed 10% of minority students in this district spots discrimination, fact!

 

[Go Braves]

Braves you don't take 92% based upon test scores, and 8% based upon scores and subjectivity, it's unfair to include race, language, economic status, language.

100% test scores, whatever it may be is the only fair out.

If she was tested equally with all applicants, and didn't make the cut, tooooo bad!

She was subjected to a discriminatory process, fact!

Well, your own sources contradict your posts. The majority were admitted based on their ranking in their Texas high school graduating class. Fact. The small percentage of others were admitted based on numerous criteria, as you just pointed out. You keep talking about test scores, well hers were below average. So if everybody was admitted based solely on test scores, how would that have helped her? She was tested equally with all applicants & she failed to make the cut. So yeah, too bad.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well, your own sources contradict your posts. The majority were admitted based on their ranking in their Texas high school graduating class. Fact. The small percentage of others were admitted based on numerous criteria, as you just pointed out. You keep talking about test scores, well hers were below average. So if everybody was admitted based solely on test scores, how would that have helped her? She was tested equally with all applicants & she failed to make the cut. So yeah, too bad.

Using the top 10% from various school districts is discriminatory in itself.

Perhaps the top 10% in a minority school district would not meet the same qualification in another district?

Perhaps 30% could have qualified higher on testing in a non minority district, but to accomodate a predomonately "Minority" school district, they guaranteed 10% of minority students in this district spots, open discrimination a fact!

Once again GPA is subjective, we know that also, 4.0 at a minority district could be a 3.5 at a non minority district, subjective.

Entrance exam uniformly administed is the only fair process, no strings attached.

 

[Go Braves]

Using the top 10% from various school districts is discriminatory in itself.

Perhaps the top 10% in a minority school district would not meet the same qualification in another district?

Perhaps 30% could have qualified higher on testing in a non minority district, but to accomodate a predomonately "Minority" school district, they guaranteed 10% of minority students in this district spots, open discrimination a fact!

Once again GPA is subjective, we know that also, 4.0 at a minority district could be a 3.5 at a non minority district, subjective.

Entrance exam uniformly administed is the only fair process, no strings attached.

What's the deal with your spelling and grammar? If an entrance exam was uniformly "administed" how would that have helped out this white gal who had subpar test scores?

I already explained to you how by taking the top 10% that actually makes things fairer to the kids, many of whom are white, attending wealthier schools. Everybody competes in their own school to be in the top of their own class.

 

[rturner76]

And Asians outscored them all. What factors do you think led to that?

I have not studied that branch of sociology. I will offer an uneducated guess though. I believe that Southeast Asian countries are heavily populated, historically, they have faced many hardships like famine, war, and government oppression. That forced family members to work very hard right away from a young age. Culturally, many families live together in large family units with grandparents, children,aunts, uncles, cousins etc.

Everyone contributes and resources are pooled and managed by the patriarch or matriarch. The elder family members are respected, obeyed, and the children learn from them values like hard work, respect, moderation, and really maturity is the best word. The adults have very high expectations of the children and expect them to work or go to school, depending on their social class. In turn, the children have hard working family oriented adults in the house as role models.

On top of this self perpetuating system, they have a proud history of being masters of inventions in science and warfare like gunpowder, the crossbow, steel, silk, and for example China was a vast empire over 1000 years before Christ with money, government, and philosophy writings. Japan has an uninterrupted Empirical bloodline dating back to the time of Christ.

So to sum it up, the SE Asian people figured out how to live like 5,000 years ago. They are just continuing to do what they've been doing for thousands of years which is excelling at everything through respecting their elders, their families, and their culture

PLUS: They always look out for each other by hiring, promoting, and referring family and friends first in any kind of business, they spend money with each other not letting the money go out of the community, only in. That is just like most immigrant, ethnic, and religious groups that financially stick together.

My uneducated guess. I pray I did not offend, stereotype, or in any other way disrespect anyone's culture or ethnicity. Please correct me if I have misunderstood or misrepresented anyone's SE Asian culture.

 

[NotreDame]

According to the information I can find, a total of 47 students with worse academic performance than Ms. Fisher were admitted. Of those, 42 were white and 5 were minorities. Given the proportions, I'm not sure it's possible to conclusively say that the 5 minority students were chosen over Ms. Fisher based solely on race.

Where did the "solely on race" phrase originate? I did not say, and neither did Ms. Fisher claim, the 5 minority students were chosen over her "based solely on race." However, Ms. Fisher says A.) Their race was a factor in admitting them over her and B.) Eliminating the factor of race, then she is likely admitted since C.) The factor of race of the other applicants was considered because such a factor when determining admission facilitated the university's goal of achieving a more diversified campus.

 

[NotreDame]

What, exactly, are you claiming to be inconsistent?

How would Abigail Fisher have access to all the academic profiles of the minority students admitted at UT for her class?

Like I wrote in my post, with TX House Bill 588 81% of the class she was applying to be in were admitted based on being in the top 10% of their class, regardless of their race. She failed to earn admission that way, having an inferior academic record to those who were. She also only got an 1180 on her SAT, putting her below the average for those who were admitted in that class.

You are still missing the point. She is not denying she did not qualify on the basis of being in the top 10% of her class. The 10% threshold was not the basis of her lawsuit. She did not allege injury on the basis of the 10% threshold scheme.

How would Abigail Fisher have access to all the academic profiles of the minority students admitted at UT for her class?

It is called discovery. A party issues a subpoena for records to the university.

 

[Go Braves]

You are still missing the point. She is not denying she did not qualify on the basis of being in the top 10% of her class. The 10% threshold was not the basis of her lawsuit. She did not allege injury on the basis of the 10% threshold scheme.



It is called discovery. A party issues a subpoena for records to the university.

Nope, you're failing to properly read my posts if that's what you think, on account of how I addressed that point several times.

The discovery lead to revealing that it was her mediocrity that kept her from being admitted.

 

[Go Braves]

It Seems Mediocre Grades, Not Ethnicity, Kept Abigail Fisher Out of UT Austin

 

[Go Braves]

How do you calculate GPA? Do you give the extra point for AP and Honors classes? Do you include P.E.? How about shop and 'home ec' classes?

So which tests? The SAT also has subject tests and in Math has 2 different levels.

If 2 students have identical GPAs and are identical in their SATs except one took Math Level 1 and got an 800 and the other took Math level 2 are you saying you would accept the student who took the level 1 test?

Fortunately I could not have gotten shafted that way. I scored 800 on the math level 2.

That's why I think it's great that Texas puts the biggest emphasis on HS class rank. Everybody's competing with other kids in their own school, own class to be at the top. Back when this gal applied the bar for automatic admission was set lower than it is now & the gal who brought the lawsuit still didn't reach it. Nowadays somebody with her class rank & her SAT score would be considered a total reach, even as an in-state applicant. I am pretty dang proud of my SAT score & GPA, and I was worried about getting in as an out-of-state applicant. I didn't end up applying there but had checked it out pretty thoroughly.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Where did the "solely on race" phrase originate? I did not say, and neither did Ms. Fisher claim, the 5 minority students were chosen over her "based solely on race." However, Ms. Fisher says A.) Their race was a factor in admitting them over her and B.) Eliminating the factor of race, then she is likely admitted since C.) The factor of race of the other applicants was considered because such a factor when determining admission facilitated the university's goal of achieving a more diversified campus.

If she claims that she would have been admitted over the minority students had race not been factored in, then she is claiming that they were chosen over her based solely on race.

The fact is that we don't know where she ranked or where those 5 minority students ranked. It could be that they had enough points to beat her even without factoring in race - after all, 42 white students in similar academic situations could say the same. And it could be that there were 5 (or more) other students who were ranked between her and the 47 students with worse academic records who were accepted, so even if those five minority students would not have made it in without race playing a role, she still would not have been accepted.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

It Seems Mediocre Grades, Not Ethnicity, Kept Abigail Fisher Out of UT Austin

Well... well... now the real truth is finally being told and poor little Abigail Fisher wasn't discriminated against because she is white. I wonder why she's been lying about being discriminated against.

 

[keith99]

That's why I think it's great that Texas puts the biggest emphasis on HS class rank. Everybody's competing with other kids in their own school, own class to be at the top. Back when this gal applied the bar for automatic admission was set lower than it is now & the gal who brought the lawsuit still didn't reach it. Nowadays somebody with her class rank & her SAT score would be considered a total reach, even as an in-state applicant. I am pretty dang proud of my SAT score & GPA, and I was worried about getting in as an out-of-state applicant. I didn't end up applying there but had checked it out pretty thoroughly.

It is a brilliant racist holding action. it insure sufficient admissions of minorities to keep the federal government off their backs while also making sure enough of those who are admitted flunk out to provide superficial evidence that minorities can not hack it.

Minorities from sub par high schools will get in, but they will lack the tools and soon be gone. Those minorities who do start early enough will make their way into better schools, but quite a few of them fall outside the top 10% of their class, especially if they have been working their way up and started at sub par schools. Truly brilliant. Oh the very best and brightest won't be held down, but those just a bit less smart will be while those content to wallow in ghetto schools will get admitted to the pride of the Texas University system!

Not surprisingly there are a half dozen schools in the University of California system that are ranked ahead ot University of Texas at Austin. Looks like a more balanced admissions system helps keep a school highly ranked.

 

[keith99]

If she claims that she would have been admitted over the minority students had race not been factored in, then she is claiming that they were chosen over her based solely on race.

The fact is that we don't know where she ranked or where those 5 minority students ranked. It could be that they had enough points to beat her even without factoring in race - after all, 42 white students in similar academic situations could say the same. And it could be that there were 5 (or more) other students who were ranked between her and the 47 students with worse academic records who were accepted, so even if those five minority students would not have made it in without race playing a role, she still would not have been accepted.

No, absolutely not. Perhaps an example will make that clear. Let's say they had a point system and they gave bonus points for some things. Lets also say she was 10 points ahead before any bonus points but that there are another student who was:

Black = 4 bonus points
Veteran =6 bonus points
Spoke mandarin = 3 bonus points.

Now this other student is ahead by 3 points. That student would still have been behind if they lacked any of those attributes.

It is linguistically absurd to say that student was selected based solely on race, solely on Veteran status and solely on speaking Mandarin.

It is as wrong as saying another student with a similar GPA was chosen solely because of an 'A' in one particular class.