Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[BNR32FAN]

These verses refer to the treatment of the 144000 in the Tribułation Period. Believers will not be here to be tested in these matters.

By the way that verse is not only to the 144,000 Jews that will be saved. It is for everyone.

 

[justbyfaith]

A performance Is absolutely required for Salvation...HIS not ours....ours is like filthy rags
God gave us the commandments to show us we can’t keep them.....they show the need for a Savior.If there were a way to keep them, Jesus died in vain

Yes...as in Galatians 2:20.

 

[justbyfaith]

You should have paid attention to this verse. Jesus didn't say someone can stop being a good tree.
Good trees bear good fruit, bad trees don't bear good fruit.

Just saying you have faith, doesn't actually mean you have faith.
Faith produces. Ok, how does this verse say you can lose salvation?


Just saying you have faith, doesn't actually mean you have faith.

Who gathers the branches and burns them? Not God.
John 15:6 KJV If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

And you think the kingdom of God is just referring to eternal life? Not what Paul says in the following verses referring to the fruit of the Spirit.
The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
If you are doing the things listed in verses 19-21 you won't be displaying what is in 22-23

A bad tree doesn't bear good fruit. How is this verse saying you can lose salvation?
How is this verse saying you can lose salvation?


God promised His people He would not be angry with them ever.
Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Notice those who the blessed are and who the cursed are.
The blessed don't do good works to become blessed, but they do them because they are blessed.
The cursed don't do good works because they are cursed. Not to be cursed.

]How is this verse saying you can lose salvation?

Already dealt with in post 150

How is this verse saying you can lose salvation?

You're another blind one. Not judging your salvation here, but 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 talks of spiritual blindness, not seeing what the scripture says when it is right in front of your face.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sinning terribly and “ getting away with it” is not exclusive to the OSAS crowd. According to your thinking a Believer could do all of these things and escape Hell.All you have to do is repent before you die and everything will be fine.Your end-result is no different than mine.Quit pretending that it is.Some pay lip-service to Grace but in their heart of hearts they have made repentance their means of salvation.Repentance comes naturally to the Believer ,it’s a part of becoming like Christ, a gift from the in-dwelling Holy Spirit.It does not save, nor does it keep you saved.Faith in the Shed Blood ALONE is the narrow gate.The line there will be short when compared to the wide gate composed of those who will be trying to justify themselves before God with their works, their repentance,their will-power and any other used menstrual rags or if you prefer the prettied up version...” filthy rags”.
God ain’t interested—— better go with grace and faith in Christ’s finished work.

This is false teaching. Repentance is necessary for salvation, Luke 13:1-5.

 

[Doug Melven]

This is false teaching. Repentance is necessary for salvation, Luke 13:1-5.

These are the verses you cite.
13 Now there were some present at that very season who told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And he answered and said unto them, Think ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they have suffered these things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them, think ye that they were offenders above all the men that dwell in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

What is your definition of repentance?
Turning from sin or is it to stop depending on your own ability to be saved?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes...as in Galatians 2:20.

It’s not salvation by works it’s salvation by walking in the Spirit. It’s not just a thought it’s a way of life.

 

[Bible2+]

Oldmantook said in post #286:

Therefore repent means to change our minds and refrain from committing further sin.

Regarding repenting from a sin (Acts 8:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 3:19), that means to change one's mind regarding that sin, in the sense of having no plans to ever commit it again, knowing that God has made it possible for Christians not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23; 2 Corinthians 7:1), even when they are tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9a; 1 Corinthians 10:13, Matthew 6:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16).

But if, sometime after repenting from a sin, Christians nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit that sin again, this does not mean that they had not previously repented from that sin, or that they as continued believers in Jesus Christ and His Gospel are not saved from hell. What they need to do is to repent from that sin again and confess it to God, and they will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9, cf. Luke 17:4).

Satan wants Christians to fail to continue to come to Jesus Christ, to think that it is hopeless, that they are just too evil for Jesus, when in fact Jesus is waiting with open arms to forgive them for their sins, which weigh down on them so heavily (Matthew 11:28-30).

 

[Bible2+]

GodsGrace101 said in post #288:

However, being born again does not abolish the law.
Jesus states this in Mathew 5:17

Matthew 5:17-18 means that Jesus Christ came the first time not to abolish the prophecies in the Mosaic law and the Old Testament prophets regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's first coming, but to fulfill all those prophecies (Luke 24:44-48; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53). Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean that Jesus came not to abolish the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, for He did come to do that, on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19). Also, Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean that Jesus came to fulfill the letter of all of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments, for He could not possibly have done that. For example, some of those commandments applied only to women after childbirth (Leviticus 12:4-8), or to wives suspected of adultery by their husbands (Numbers 5:19-31).

As the Christ (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44-46), the mediator of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-9), Jesus had the divine authority to contradict the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments and replace them with His own, even better, New Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:38-44, Matthew 19:7-9, John 8:5-7), such as those He gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Thessalonians 4:2). And as the Christ, Jesus had the divine authority to allow His disciples to break the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Matthew 12:1-8).

-

On Jesus Christ's Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All Christians, whether Jews or Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Christians keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus Christ's New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those which He gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29), and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason for any Christian to ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after He had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before He brought this promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ Himself on the Cross (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, including the letter of its Ten Commandments, written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8), was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the Spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b), which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits Christians to remove the veil, and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even some Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved from hell (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any Christians are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved from hell, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus Christ will profit them nothing. They have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

 

[Bible2+]

justbyfaith said in post #298:

Therefore (and I have certainly not said here all that can be said on this) salvation is a transformation of the nature and character of the heart (2 Corinthians 5:17) and cannot be lost . . .

Note that a Christian becoming a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17) does not take away his free will. It does not turn him into a robot. So it is possible for him to wrongly employ his free will to the ultimate loss of his salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 6:4-8, Matthew 25:26,30).

*******

justbyfaith said in post #302:

Yes...as in Galatians 2:20.

Note that 2 Corinthians 5:9, 1 Corinthians 3:9, Colossians 1:29, Philippians 2:12b, Titus 3:8, and Romans 2:6-8 show that Christians themselves must actually labor, together with God. Ultimate salvation is synergistic, because Christians can end up losing their salvation if they wrongly employ their free will to stop their laboring, to become utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

While God makes it possible for Christians to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), He does not take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom He forces to dance across the stage as He pulls on their strings. Instead, He leaves them as His real children with free will. And so they have to choose each and every day to deny themselves, to take up their crosses, and to follow Jesus Christ, to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there is no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13).

 

[Oldmantook]

I do not change my mind about that sin, I still see it as evil.
I thank God He has forgiven me and I ask for strength to not do that again.
I do not see how either of us are getting anywhere.
I believe repentance has nothing to do with sin.
Repentance has everything to do with who we are depending upon. Either self or God.
Dependence on self is the essence of pride.

Your answer is telling as you have managed to avoid answering my direct question of you. Therefore I'll repeat it. If you don't want to answer my simple questions, don't bother replying.
1. Do you sin? Yes or No?
2. If you sin, do you repent of your sin asking God to forgive you of your sin?

 

[zoidar]

I already provided sufficient refutation to the idea that people can lose their salvation. Some will accept Bible truth, and others will reject it.

How do you explain Rom 11? Please don't show to other passages to prove you can't lose salvation. Stick with explaining Rom 11 and I'll be happy.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Christ love, P

BTW you should check this list on logical fallacies.

Logical fallacies or fallacies in argumentation | CARM.org

 

[GodsGrace101]

Matthew 5:17-18 means that Jesus Christ came the first time not to abolish the prophecies in the Mosaic law and the Old Testament prophets regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's first coming, but to fulfill all those prophecies (Luke 24:44-48; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53). Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean that Jesus came not to abolish the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, for He did come to do that, on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19). Also, Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean that Jesus came to fulfill the letter of all of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments, for He could not possibly have done that. For example, some of those commandments applied only to women after childbirth (Leviticus 12:4-8), or to wives suspected of adultery by their husbands (Numbers 5:19-31).

I have a problem answering these very long posts which seems to be the norm on this forum. (due to time constrictions)
As to the above...
There are three types of law in the Old Testament:
Civil
Ceremonial
Moral

Jesus abolished the civil and ceremonial laws.
Sacrifices were ceremonial,also attending church on Saturday.
Civil were marriages: Jesus was returning the divorce certificate civil law back to the original - no divorce except in cases of adultery.

So your above claim about Jesus not being able to fulfill women's ceremonial law is incorrect. It was abolished anyway. Jesus did not have to fulfill it.

The MORAL LAW will NEVER be abolished. It was from the beginning and will be to the end. God requires us to follow the civil law.

As the Christ (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44-46), the mediator of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-9), Jesus had the divine authority to contradict the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments and replace them with His own, even better, New Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:38-44, Matthew 19:7-9, John 8:5-7), such as those He gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Thessalonians 4:2). And as the Christ, Jesus had the divine authority to allow His disciples to break the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Matthew 12:1-8).

Jesus had no authority to break any of the moral laws. The New Covenant is a better covenant but it does not abolish the Old Covenant. Every covenant made the previous one better in some way or more complete in some way. Jesus brought the law to the level of the heart, as God had promised in Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

No more time. If you wish to discuss further, including scripture, I'm willing.

-

On Jesus Christ's Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All Christians, whether Jews or Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Christians keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus Christ's New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those which He gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29), and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason for any Christian to ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after He had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before He brought this promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ Himself on the Cross (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, including the letter of its Ten Commandments, written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8), was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the Spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b), which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits Christians to remove the veil, and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even some Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved from hell (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any Christians are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved from hell, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus Christ will profit them nothing. They have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

Please break this up if you wish to discuss...

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

Then please explain your understanding of the purpose of the book of Hebrews. It is a treatise imploring Christian Jews to resist the temptation to choose exactly what you say we cannot choose.

Please be specific as the Hebrew epistles, letters, are extensive. Chapter and verse please. Thanks.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your answer is telling as you have managed to avoid answering my direct question of you. Therefore I'll repeat it. If you don't want to answer my simple questions, don't bother replying.
1. Do you sin? Yes or No?
2. If you sin, do you repent of your sin asking God to forgive you of your sin?

There is also the question do you follow Christ’s example and do you produce fruit? My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow me. A tree that does not produce fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

How do you explain Rom 11? Please don't show to other passages to prove you can't lose salvation. Stick with explaining Rom 11 and I'll be happy.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Christ love, P

BTW you should check this list on logical fallacies.

Logical fallacies or fallacies in argumentation | CARM.org

I never shall understand how anyone could argue with vehemence that Christ died to give us transitory life. I also can't understand how anyone could argue Jesus lied.
But perhaps there is a reason for that and not one that arrives from the inspiration of the spirit that is alive inside every Christian.

Shame on anyone who thinks we mere humans are able to evict the Holy Spirit by our will. That we are then able to proceed in reverse of all things that occur when we accept the free grace gift of God and his eternal life through the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ, who was the propitiation of our sins. And the advocate between ourselves and the Father should we sin after.
Those who think we can return to our damned state would have to prove with scripture that does not exist that we can, unredeem ourselves. That we can be un-reborn. That we can turn God to remembering our sins of the past that scripture says he remembered no more when we were saved. That we are able to choose to shuck off our status as a new creation in Christ. And that we can evict the Holy Spirit that indwells every born-again Christian. Because, and this is key, the Omniscient God that made redemption possible, as the scripture says, knew those who would come to Christ before the creation of the world, did not see it coming that those he foreknew and called to salvation would say, sorry pops! We prefer Hell instead. Please undo all that was done in the name of your son and take back what you said dear God about your gifts being irrevocable.

Romans 11 Commentary - Adam Clarke Commentary

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never shall understand how anyone could argue with vehemence that Christ died to give us transitory life. I also can't understand how anyone could argue Jesus lied.
But perhaps there is a reason for that and not one that arrives from the inspiration of the spirit that is alive inside every Christian.

Shame on anyone who thinks we mere humans are able to evict the Holy Spirit by our will. That we are then able to proceed in reverse of all things that occur when we accept the free grace gift of God and his eternal life through the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ, who was the propitiation of our sins. And the advocate between ourselves and the Father should we sin after.
Those who think we can return to our damned state would have to prove with scripture that does not exist that we can, unredeem ourselves. That we can be un-reborn. That we can turn God to remembering our sins of the past that scripture says he remembered no more when we were saved. That we are able to choose to shuck off our status as a new creation in Christ. And that we can evict the Holy Spirit that indwells every born-again Christian. Because, and this is key, the Omniscient God that made redemption possible, as the scripture says, knew those who would come to Christ before the creation of the world, did not see it coming that those he foreknew and called to salvation would say, sorry pops! We prefer Hell instead. Please undo all that was done in the name of your son and take back what you said dear God about your gifts being irrevocable.

Romans 11 Commentary - Adam Clarke Commentary

OSAS contradicts free will after we are saved. We do not become remote controlled robots after we receive the Holy Spirit. We must continue to walk in the Spirit once we’ve received Him. Being a Christian is not only the Way to life it’s a Way of life.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.


When the Bible speaks of salvation as a gift from God, it emphasizes the fact that salvation is something given freely by Him rather than something we earn. Ephesians 2:8-9 contrasts salvation as a gift from God with human efforts when it teaches, "For by grace you have been saved through faith.

How is salvation a gift from God? - CompellingTruth.org
www.compellingtruth.org/salvation-gift.html


Romans 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.


The camp that opposes eternal salvation are those for whom the burden of proof rests.
Not the other way around.
God in his grace gave the world his only begotten son. That whomsoever believeth in him shall not perish as sinners, but shall have everlasting life as those reborn in Christ.

The opponents of that message in John 3:16, and Romans 11:29 , and elsewhere in the new covenant scriptures, have to prove Jesus did not die to bring eternal everlasting life to those who believe.
They may interpolate "Eternal" , as not so. But that is irrelevant when God knows the plan and purpose of Salvation for which he delivered himself as the Son of man, and the Son of God, to seal the covenant of everlasting.
Those who die in their sins, die the second death. Those who are reborn in Christ do not suffer the second death but have eternal life through Christ.
Answer: The second death is mentioned on multiple occasions in the book of Revelation and is synonymous with the lake of fire. It is a “death” in that it is a separation from God, the Giver of life. It is called the “second” one because it follows physical death.
What is the second death? - GotQuestions.org
www.gotquestions.org/second-death.html

JLB777 pursues this argument that eternal life is not true, that eternal salvation is not true, at other Christian forums also. He's been asked to leave because of his insistence in pushing blasphemy.
As has Bob Ryan.
Be aware that there is an element in the world that seeks to mislead the Sheep of our Lord. Because that movement is not aware the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. So that we shall not be deceived by such efforts.
That element is also committed to teaching works save. That you have to labor all your life to find yourself approved at the end of your life by God before you'll find out if you are to receive eternal life. Or death.
That too is not what Christ died to bring to the world. That is what Christ came to overcome from the teachings in the old covenant, works saves, which was also part of the sacrificial system, killing animals, blood of animal sacrifice, for every sin in order to atone.
While Jesus in the new covenant, testament, was the last sacrifice, the unblemished lamb who's blood spilled on the last sin altar, the cross. So as to give eternal forgiveness for the sins of the world, if only we believe. And therein receive eternal life through Christ. Because his blood covers every sin.
If we stop believing do we go back to being damned? NO!
Though we must also remember there are those whom are not in Christ though they think they are. Jesus taught of those too. That is what would seek to add to their number. Teaching falsely that Jesus is not actually the Savior of the world. And those In Christ, IN CHRIST, do you see how that is important? We are in Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells within us. Would He make a mistake? Thinking to come into one who was not His? Called by the Father, as the Father foreknew, before He created the world? God makes mistakes? No.
Those who are not Indwelt, and who are not In Christ, are not led, taught, the word, by The Word.
Jesus spoke of them because they were once in his numbered Disciples. Until....

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

But that is what the antithesis purveyors hope to teach. That works garner us God's approval and his bestowal of His grace and salvation. That is not the new covenant. That wasn't even the old covenant. Remember the tale of the prodigal son?
Luke 15.
The parable teaches that even when a son left the father and went his own way cavorting in the world, thinking that was how he wanted to live, that when he returned to the father filthy and broken, the father welcomed him home. Forgave him, and celebrated his return to the bosom of his father. That is the tale of forgiveness for all who believe. And all who come to believe in the Son of God, Jesus.
When we first are redeemed of our sins, repent, and are reborn as a new creation dead to the world's sins and saved under the blood of Christ, who is our advocate should we ever stumble while indwelt with the Holy Spirit that enters us the moment we believe.
And also, very important here, should we lapse in our faith. Due to whatever reason. And return to the world thinking that is the way we want to go to be most happy.

We can give up on almighty God. But almighty God who knew us before the womb, Jeremiah 1, will never give up on us. The parable of the Prodigal son teaches that.

It also teaches about that which we can encounter in Christians community. Those who argue against eternal salvation, Christ's sacrifice, and eternal life and forgiveness from the father.
The Prodigal son's brother did not rejoice to see his brother return. He was instead enraged that the Father of them both received his son back into the family , rejoiced, forgave him, bathed him with kisses and love, and threw a celebration to commemorate the return.

Jesus taught in Parables, so that not everyone would understand and be redeemed. Matthew 13.
Those whom God calls to his Son understand. Because we were His before the creation of the world.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Praise be to the God and Father of our LORD Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Matthew 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Do not be deceived by those who argue, insist, page after page, that you can choose to lose your salvation. Because they seek to make you believe your will is stronger than God's.


Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


Remember too, the first Christians were converted Jews. Those who heard the word and accepted the prophesied Messiah had arrived.

But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.…

Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

OSAS contradicts free will after we are saved. We do not become remote controlled robots after we receive the Holy Spirit. We must continue to walk in the Spirit once we’ve received Him. Being a Christian is not only the Way to life it’s a Way of life.

Matthew 7:15 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Not one iota of scripture has ever affirmed what you seek to refute in your remarks. Robots. How absurd.
Jesus Christ is living water. In order to renounce eternal live and irrevocable gift of God the burden of proof is on you!
God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. Without repentance, not able to be rescinded, cancelled.

Show the scripture where that passage in Romans 11:29 is a lie.
Because that is exactly what opponents of eternal salvation, eternal life through Jesus Christ, are insisting as true.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

Oh, and to say also, free will is not revoked when we are Saved! You'd have to show the scripture that says that.
The burden of proof is on you. Again.

The damned are fully able to freely choose eternal Hell as their after life destiny.
However, they are not free to lead others there without a fight. Jesus died on the cross, the last sin altar, suffering excruciating torture prior and excruciating pain while nailed to that altar. He did not do it so that it was something that could be revoked by our choice.
All was pre-planned, as Jesus appears in the Old Testament with regularity, and prophesied to come by God the Father himself.

Those who are In Christ are eternally His. And no one can take us from His hand. And no one can cause us to jump so that God would notice and allow us to go to Hell either.

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[zoidar]

Oh, and to say also, free will is not revoked when we are Saved! You'd have to show the scripture that says that.
The burden of proof is on you. Again

Read the posts in this thread again, it's full of proof.