Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[paul becke]

When you were born again, it was not your sould that was made brand new, it was your spirit. Our souls are still subject to death. Plus if this person had lost there salvation, they cannot be born-again again. It is impossible. Hebrews 6:4-6.

Looks like a Scripture from Ezekiel 33.
Pleas show a Scripture that shows the only criteria for entering Heaven is love.
And then we can toss out all of the Scriptures that say we must believe.

Commitment to the selfless love that Christ spoke of, is the very expression of that belief, and is pivotal, to our salvation ; otherwise you are making a mockery of Christ's description of God's Judgment between the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew's gospel. Or do you think the criterion of such commitment is 'a commitment of straw' ?

It is on our heart that we shall be judged, not our worldly intellect. Satan's heart just wasn't in the right place, was it, since he believed in the narrow sense of bare credence, which you would like, nevertheless, to be true ? Not exactly an expression of a selfless love of God in our neighbour is it, to rejoice in the notion that you got saved without lifting a finger, just giving your intellectual assent - never mind about Christ as your neighbour, when he needed your help.

Why do you think Jesus gave us that description ?

References :
'The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two' commandments." (first and second ['its like']) - Matthew 22:40

Galatians 5:14
'The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."'

So, you had better take the matter up with the Holy Spirit. Oh. I forgot. You think He 'called it a day' after inspiring the texts of the scriptures. Or perhaps it was the other lad. Or both of you. What did the Fathers of the Church in the early centuries know, eh ?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wrong interpretation dear.
Luke 8; 15; Is being born again.
Luke 8; 11:14; these are the parallel verses to Mathew 13
The rock represents indifference, receiving the Word with no root is emotional hearing
then they are tested and fall away
This is instability, temptation, and backsliding, all of which equals "worldly hearers".

Take everything you've said and go back to this point, and correct yourself.
Because you keep talking of meaningless things.

You like Luke better than Mathew?
Could they not be saying the same thing???

Luke 8:15
These have heard the word AND HOLD IT FAST.
The NT is full of warnings to hold our faith fast, to hold the word fast, to hold our belief fast. Jesus is saying what also Paul says many times...to
hold on fast:

Hebrews 10:23
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Philippians 1:27


Luke 8:11-14
verse 13
These are on the rocky soil. They HEAR, they RECEIVE the word with JOY, but they do not have a firm root. They BELIEVE FOR A WHILE and in time of temptation, they fall away.
IOW, they do the opposite of the verses I posted above.

Jesus HIMSELF is saying that they receive the word with JOY, that they BELIEVE for a while ...
believing means you're saved!
And THEN
THEY FALL AWAY. (again, as in the verses I posted)

Please reconsider since Jesus explains the parable very well.

 

[OSAS 101]

You like Luke better than Mathew?
Could they not be saying the same thing???

Luke 8:15
These have heard the word AND HOLD IT FAST.
The NT is full of warnings to hold our faith fast, to hold the word fast, to hold our belief fast. Jesus is saying what also Paul says many times...to
hold on fast:

Hebrews 10:23
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Philippians 1:27


Luke 8:11-14
verse 13
These are on the rocky soil. They HEAR, they RECEIVE the word with JOY, but they do not have a firm root. They BELIEVE FOR A WHILE and in time of temptation, they fall away.
IOW, they do the opposite of the verses I posted above.

Jesus HIMSELF is saying that they receive the word with JOY, that they BELIEVE for a while ...
believing means you're saved!
And THEN
THEY FALL AWAY. (again, as in the verses I posted)

Please reconsider since Jesus explains the parable very well.

You are stubborn.
You refuse to consider that you may be wrong
You are a dictator when discussing Scripture
Someday, hopefully, you'll notice how tall you really are
Don't disappoint yourself, be ready

 

[GodsGrace101]

You are stubborn.
You refuse to consider that you may be wrong
You are a dictator when discussing Scripture
Someday, hopefully, you'll notice how tall you really are
Don't disappoint yourself, be ready

Do YOU consider that YOU might be wrong?
When did this whole idea of OSAS come about?
How come it wasn't in the church before then?
Were all those who came before totally stupid in their theology?
I'm not tall so I won't be disappointed.
And yes, I'm stubborn because I'm right.
You either believe John Calvin or you believe Jesus and the bible.
I believe Jesus and the bible.

 

[Tayla]

I am amazed at how anyone can think salvation is insecure.

People who are steeped in serious sin should be worried. Whether they lose their salvation or whether they were never saved to begin with makes no difference. Salvation requires true repentance, turning from sin, not just saying some words.

 

[paul becke]

You say there are lots of Scriptures that say we can lose our salvation.
Yet, I have not been shown one verse that once put into context actually said God would disown a child.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus. Some say it is a true account, and not a parable. St Paul makes it clear spiritual childhood has to be just an initial stage, and we must mature evidently into adults. Or do you think St Paul was not inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ ?

Jesus speaks of the 'children of darkness' and the 'children of this world' - and the 'children of light'. What on earth do you think he meant by the 'children of darkness' and the 'children of this world', if not the damned, the latter, if failing ultimately to see the light ?

 

[Micah888]

The doctrine of eternal security states that we have no free will. So it is the work of God to keep us till the end.

Let's put aside the issue of free will for the moment.

The eternal security of the believer is based upon the fact that he or she is "in" Christ and Christ is "in" them. So every believer is eternally joined to the Body of Christ (which is also His Bride). And no man or Satan can sever the believer from that Body.

Therefore Paul says that "nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom 8:39).

And Scripture also says that we are "kept by the power of God". [The elect according to the foreknowledge of God] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Pet 1:5).

 

[paul becke]

Ok I’ll keep trying and failing and still trust in Jesus Christ as my savior and if your right and I’m wrong I’ll still be saved. But if I’m right and your wrong not only are you misleading others but you yourself will burn in the lake of fire if you don’t have a devotion to obeying and following Jesus’ teachings. Do you really think all those verses are for nonbelievers? There’s no point in mentioning those verses if it’s not for believers. If someone doesn’t believe they can refrain from sin all they want and do good works all their life and they still won’t be saved. If believers don’t have to obey those verses then there’s no reason to even mention them if we only need to believe to be saved. So you tell me why did Jesus say those things if we only need to believe? Sure no one will ever be perfect but that doesn’t mean that a certain level of devotion to following Jesus’ teachings is not necessary. The thing is if you are a believer and you have faith you will be compelled by the Holy Spirit to live according to His teachings. That’s what saves a person. Not the works itself but being born again and living according to the Holy Spirits guidance. The word faith is translated from the Greek word pistis which also means faithfulness and fidelity.

.. which are synonyms for 'commitment' ; a habitual determination of the heart to do good - not once or twice, but habitually. Love costs. It is not simply a matter of emotion.

 

[MDC]

Thanks for mentioning that this is modern day debating.
It didn't exist until 1,500 AD, when this heretical doctrine came about.
It never existed before in the church --- if it did, could you please show me some support. From the time Jesus died onward we were always exhorted in all the biblical writings to follow Jesus and to behave as He would want us to.

Do you believe we should not be obedient?
Do you put all the responsibility on God? And what is your part? To do nothing? This is not what Jesus taught or what Paul taught.

In John 5:28-29 Jesus Himself tells us we will be judged by our deeds.
28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.


John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.”

James 1:22
But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

God has always demanded obedience.
How is this being self-righteous?

If eternal life in Christ could be lost then Christ has failed. That’s essentially what is being said by those who teach and believe salvation could be lost. Obedience is the fruit or result of being saved in Christ. Not the cause or what maintains salvation. To suggest so as these folk do, show they’re void of faith. Paul rebukes this false doctrine in the book of Galatians. This is what happens when one denies the grace of God in salvation and Christ’s merits as the only basis for justification before God. Being self righteous is believing that ones own works are meritorious in some way

 

[OSAS 101]

Do YOU consider that YOU might be wrong?
When did this whole idea of OSAS come about?
How come it wasn't in the church before then?
Were all those who came before totally stupid in their theology?
I'm not tall so I won't be disappointed.
And yes, I'm stubborn because I'm right.
You either believe John Calvin or you believe Jesus and the bible.
I believe Jesus and the bible.

You don't even capitalize the Bible.
Where's the respect?
I suppose you keep your TV remote on top of your Bible.
OSAS is real because my relationship with God is real.
And that will never end.
When yours ends, you can tell us what the other side is like.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You don't even capitalize the Bible.
Where's the respect?
I suppose you keep your TV remote on top of your Bible.
OSAS is real because my relationship with God is real.
And that will never end.
When yours ends, you can tell us what the other side is like.

LOL
My TV remote is not on top of my Bible.
Looks like my tablet respects the Bible more than I do,,,it automatically capitalizes the word.
I believe that your relationship with God will never end.
This is true for most who have tasted of the goodness of the Lord...but it's not what Jesus said.

 

[OSAS 101]

LOL
My TV remote is not on top of my Bible.
Looks like my tablet respects the Bible more than I do,,,it automatically capitalizes the word.
I believe that your relationship with God will never end.
This is true for most who have tasted of the goodness of the Lord...but it's not what Jesus said.

Not the way you see it
Is it a faith problem?
Write on a piece of paper 100 times
I love Jesus

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not the way you see it
Is it a faith problem?
Write on a piece of paper 100 times
I love Jesus

Jesus said where we end up depends on what we do.

 

[OSAS 101]

Jesus said where we end up depends on what we do.

Keep writing til I tell you to stop

 

[GodsGrace101]

Keep writing til I tell you to stop

Can't post now,,,tomorrow.

 

[OSAS 101]

Can't post now,,,tomorrow.

good night
enjoy your eternal security

 

[Ron Gurley]

>>>Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

 

[Ron Gurley]

SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

 

[Ron Gurley]

One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

 

[Doug Melven]

The doctrine of eternal security states that we have no free will.

How is that?
Choices have consequences.
Once we chose to believe, the consequence was eternal life. We became His child.
Free will doesn't say that if I don't like the consequences I can just not have to be subject to them.
If somebody commits a felony worthy of prison time, and then they tell the judge I don't like the sentence, do you really think the judge will say ok you can go because I don't want to violate your free will?
I understand with today's ethics that if a child is conceived and she doesn't want the child she can have an abortion. But this is not true in God's way of doing things. When God conceives a child, He brings it forth. He doesn't ever leave or forsake His child.

Yes, Paul preaches against living a sinful life in almost every writing of his; and it's obvious to me that you live a holy life; however, many take advantage of this doctrine to do exactly that when Jesus made it clear that we will be judged by our deeds as in Mathew 7:23 -- those who practice lawlessness will be asked to depart from Jesus at the judgement.

Just because some will take advantage does that mean we should stop preaching the Truth?
Somehow, I don't think anyone will actually take advantage of God.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus? Is that what is necessary?

Depend on or completely trust.
We don't just believe that Jesus exists. No, we believe He died in our place for our sins.

Mathew 13:20-21
Jesus tells the parable of the seed that fell on a rocky place.
This is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it WITH JOY.
But this is only temporary and when affliction comes along because of the word, he immediately falls away.

You could look at it as OSAS 101 showed or you could look at the Scripture and see that they become offended.

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Where does it say they turn away and lose there salvation?

No parent would disown a son except in extreme circumstances.
However, a son could decide he wants to disown the parents...
At that point the parents become forced to also disown the son...

What world do you live in where this is possible?
Maybe an adult could do this, but not a child.

Not exactly an expression of a selfless love of God in our neighbour is it, to rejoice in the notion that you got saved without lifting a finger, just giving your intellectual assent

Who is taking about intellectual assent?
No, we are talking about believing with the heart.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus. Some say it is a true account, and not a parable. St Paul makes it clear spiritual childhood has to be just an initial stage, and we must mature evidently into adults. Or do you think St Paul was not inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ ?

Jesus speaks of the 'children of darkness' and the 'children of this world' - and the 'children of light'. What on earth do you think he meant by the 'children of darkness' and the 'children of this world', if not the damned, the latter, if failing ultimately to see the light ?

I must say I am a little confused by this.
What does the rich man and Lazarus have to do with losing salvation?
What does growing into maturity have to do with losing salvation?
Or do you think that if someone does not mature quick enough they are not saved?
What do the children of darkness or light have to do with losing salvation?