Should Women be Allowed to Pastor Churches?

[Paidiske]

So when a church has a female pastor it shows that they don't really take scripture as seriously as I do...

This is not necessarily true. I'm a woman who is a priest. I also take Scripture with the utmost seriousness. I base my preaching and teaching on it, study it seriously and take the inspiration of it as a bedrock of my faith. That I disagree with you on the interpretation/application of it on this point doesn't mean I don't take it seriously; and to say so, of all those Christians who disagree with you, is a pretty big, sweeping, inaccurate insult of them.

 

[Archivist]

Nothing like the modern office of pastor is described in Scripture. The Bible does tell us, however, that the first person to preach the Good News of the risen Christ was a woman. It tells us that that Phoebe was a deacon in the church, indicating that she held some type of leadership and authority position. We know that Junia was described as being "of note among the apostles."

Yes, women not only can serve as pastors, but in fact do serve as pastors.

 

[Hearingheart]

And I know it's a tradition to have a thread like this every so often (just like our regular-as-clockwork Christmas, Easter, Sola Scriptura, and KJV threads).

But really, what purpose does it serve?

Very good question! I don't know why people don't just do a little research and read what is already been posted forums before posting on some of these subjects.

To be fair, this theology doesn't interest me particularly because I'm too busy getting on with ministry.

A really good point to make. How much time is spent going round and round on a subject that's already been beaten to death when there is actual ministry to do? Are we really sharpening one another or just getting sucked into a distraction?

 

[SkyWriting]

My opinion is no, according to Scriptures. In any other position, I would think otherwise.

e.g. A woman can teach children and other women. A woman can be an assistant.

Why should we men not consider a woman to be regarded as "an other?"

Matthew 7:12
In everything, then, do to others
as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what is yours, do not demand it back.
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Philippians 2:4
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

Very good question! I don't know why people don't just do a little research and read what is already been posted forums before posting on some of these subjects.



A really good point to make. How much time is spent going round and round on a subject that's already been beaten to death when there is actual ministry to do? Are we really sharpening one another or just getting sucked into a distraction?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

Nope, there's no scriptural basis for female pastors.

Far more against discrimination.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Paidiske]

A really good point to make. How much time is spent going round and round on a subject that's already been beaten to death when there is actual ministry to do? Are we really sharpening one another or just getting sucked into a distraction?

I always assume that, besides the same old members posting the same old points, there are people reading the threads who might be considering this for the first time. Who might be confused or doubting. Who might be wrestling with their own sense of vocation. And who might well be encountering real live actual women in ministry for the first time!

I know how much that meant to me on my journey. I know the power of positive examples and heartfelt testimonies. And so I keep coming back for the sake of those silent observers, hoping that I am encouraging and providing a counter-narrative to the negativity, oppressiveness and disempowerment of the patriarchalist folks.

 

[Hearingheart]

I always assume that, besides the same old members posting the same old points, there are people reading the threads who might be considering this for the first time. Who might be confused or doubting. Who might be wrestling with their own sense of vocation. And who might well be encountering real live actual women in ministry for the first time!

I know how much that meant to me on my journey. I know the power of positive examples and heartfelt testimonies. And so I keep coming back for the sake of those silent observers, hoping that I am encouraging and providing a counter-narrative to the negativity, oppressiveness and disempowerment of the patriarchalist folks.

Thank you for your ministry on these forums. Your posts are always informative.

ETA: I just get a little frustrated by all the division, arguing and stubbornness on these forums.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

There are new people joining these forums all the time so it should be perfectly fine to raise these inquiries from time to time. If we use the redundant standard than we can apply that to every single scriptural issue that has ever caused controversy. If you see a thread that you feel is not useful to you then ignore it. But to dismiss it as a unworthy topic of forum discussion is essentially saying : "I'm tired of this discussion....I have more important things to consider". If thats true then why did you feel compelled to leave a comment at all? Why not just ignore the thread instead of undermining it?

 

[Radagast]

Very good question! I don't know why people don't just do a little research and read what is already been posted forums before posting on some of these subjects.

That's because some much that is posted is less than helpful.

On both sides (of this, as with many other issues) the arguments made are often really bad arguments.

 

[Archivist]

People that respond to this post claiming that it's redundant or unproductive seem to feel that their own redundant comment is useful.... yet rehashing questions regarding legitimate scriptural considerations is not helpful? They tell others to get on with the business of ministry yet they themselves felt the need to have their voice considered? The fact is that there are new people joining these forums all the time so it should be perfectly fine to raise these inquiries from time to time. If we use the redundant standard than we can apply that to every single scriptural issue that has ever caused controversy. If you see a thread that you feel is not useful to you then ignore it. But to dismiss it as a unworthy topic of forum discussion is essentially saying : "I'm tired of this discussion....I have more important things to consider". If thats true then why did you feel compelled to leave a comment at all? Why not just ignore the thread instead of undermining it?

It is certainly an appropriate topic for discussion. Scripture is not clear on the issue.

Of course the easy way to deal with the question is to vote with your feet. If you believe that women should not be pastors, don't attend or join a church that ordains women. That seems fairly simple to me.

 

[redblue22]

Were there pastors in early Christianity?

What does a pastor do that a woman should not?

 

[Radagast]

This is not necessarily true. I'm a woman who is a priest. I also take Scripture with the utmost seriousness.

Indeed. Let me continue that thought. On this, as with many other issues (like the endless Protestant/Catholic wars) people can interpret Scripture differently, while still taking it seriously.

To take another example, many of our members (Catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian, Anglican, etc.) believe that Scripture supports the baptism of infants. Many of our other members (especially Baptists) believe that Scripture supports only the baptism of believers sufficiently old. On both sides, you can find Christians who take Scripture very, very, very seriously.

I also think it would help if people refrained from posting really bad arguments for one or other side (like, in this case, the "Junia" argument -- when we don't even know if Junia/Junias was a woman).

It would also help (and I'm probably as guilty here as anyone else) if people would actually listen to the arguments from the other side, and weigh them up for more than 30 seconds before judging them as true or false.

And it would also help to recognise that, in cases where the Church has trouble coming to a collective agreement, there are advantages in having denominations where people do things "the other way." Yes, one might point out the weaknesses in the position of the "other side" -- but give them some respect. They've probably thought about the issue for more than five minutes before taking their stand.

[/rant]

 

[Hearingheart]

People that respond to this post claiming that it's redundant or unproductive seem to feel that their own redundant comment is useful.... yet rehashing questions regarding legitimate scriptural considerations is not helpful? They tell others to get on with the business of ministry yet they themselves felt the need to have their voice considered? The fact is that there are new people joining these forums all the time so it should be perfectly fine to raise these inquiries from time to time. If we use the redundant standard than we can apply that to every single scriptural issue that has ever caused controversy. If you see a thread that you feel is not useful to you then ignore it. But to dismiss it as a unworthy topic of forum discussion is essentially saying : "I'm tired of this discussion....I have more important things to consider". If thats true then why did you feel compelled to leave a comment at all? Why not just ignore the thread instead of undermining it?

I usually do ignore threads or just read without commenting. Paidiske answered me with a tenor that was loving, patient and is received.
It's easy to lash out. Every once in a while it may be good to ask ourselves "what am I doing? why am I doing it?" That's all.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

I usually do ignore threads or just read without commenting. Paidiske answered me with a tenor that was loving, patient and is received.
It's easy to lash out. Every once in a while it may be good to ask ourselves "what am I doing? why am I doing it?" That's all.

Please forgive me if my tone was harsh. I'm in a cranky mood this morning and the Lord convicted me of it.

 

[Paidiske]

Indeed. Let me continue that thought. On this, as with many other issues (like the endless Protestant/Catholic wars) people can interpret Scripture differently, while still taking it seriously.

To take another example, many of our members (Catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian, Anglican, etc.) believe that Scripture supports the baptism of infants. Many of our other members (especially Baptists) believe that Scripture supports only the baptism of believers sufficiently old. On both sides, you can find Christians who take Scripture very, very, very seriously.

I also think it would help if people refrained from posting really bad arguments for one or other side (like, in this case, the "Junia" argument -- when we don't even know if Junia/Junias was a woman).

It would also help (and I'm probably as guilty here as anyone else) if people would actually listen to the arguments from the other side, and weigh them up for more than 30 seconds before judging them as true or false.

And it would also help to recognise that, in cases where the Church has trouble coming to a collective agreement, there are advantages in having denominations where people do things "the other way." Yes, one might point out the weaknesses in the position of the "other side" -- but give them some respect. They've probably thought about the issue for more than five minutes before taking their stand.

[/rant]

I agree with everything you said here except the bit about Junia. The earliest manuscripts we have say Junia. The eastern churches commemorate her as St. Junia the apostle (for eg. see here: Apostle Junia - OrthodoxWiki ). The early church unanimously recognises her as such and as a woman (eg. Chrysostum, who praised her as a great woman, worthy of the appellation of apostle).

We can argue about what it meant that she was called an apostle, we can argue about whether it's precedent for the episcopacy, we can argue about whether she preached or presided over worship, and all of that. But that she was a woman, and that the word apostle was used of her, was undisputed fact for centuries; and it's only later (and in the west) that it was felt necessary to dispute - or outright change - that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

My opinion is no, according to Scriptures. In any other position, I would think otherwise.

e.g. A woman can teach children and other women. A woman can be an assistant.

Men and women are equal. Men and women are different from each other and they have different gifts, talents and abilities given to them by God. He writes the book of our life before we are even born. Women are just as different from each other as they are from men. For example one women may have 12 children and feel called to support her husband in what he is doing. Another women may not have any children and she may not even feel she is called to being in a marriage. Everyone is equal and one is not more important than the other. Every women should say like Mary: "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." If it is the will of God to be single and not have children then let it be according to the will of God. Having said that though we teach single people that they need to work on being a Godly person to attract the right person into a lifetime partnership with them. The priesthood is very important for men and women. Many are called but few are chosen, so we need to be faithful and true to God's calling and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us in the way we are to go in life.

 

[Hearingheart]

Please forgive me if my tone was harsh. I'm in a cranky mood this morning and the Lord convicted me of it.

You are forgiven. Thank you for understanding.

 

[dqhall]

My opinion is no, according to Scriptures. In any other position, I would think otherwise.

e.g. A woman can teach children and other women. A woman can be an assistant.

Until 2017 no woman had ever successfully completed US Marine Corps infantry officer training. They had tried. The officer training is more difficult than enlisted training. The marines expect their officers to be better than the lower ranking soldiers. A woman proved she was as capable as a man.

More than a dozen Christian denominations have ordained women leaders, as have some Jewish and Buddhist sects.

 

[Neostarwcc]

This is not necessarily true. I'm a woman who is a priest. I also take Scripture with the utmost seriousness. I base my preaching and teaching on it, study it seriously and take the inspiration of it as a bedrock of my faith. That I disagree with you on the interpretation/application of it on this point doesn't mean I don't take it seriously; and to say so, of all those Christians who disagree with you, is a pretty big, sweeping, inaccurate insult of them.

It wasn't my intention to insult. I'm sorry that I insulted you. If you take scripture seriously than what's your take on 1st Corinthians 14:33-35? I'm curious.