Wherein I catch a professional YEC in a lie

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You made the first claim. Prove yours and I will prove it wrong. If you are not willing to do that, it is time to move on. Your problem is you can't prove what you said, indicating you lack of understanding basic biology.

I'll give three examples of speciation.
Observed Instances of Speciation
5.1.1.2 Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
Digby (1912) crossed the primrose species Primula verticillata and P. floribunda to produce a sterile hybrid. Polyploidization occurred in a few of these plants to produce fertile offspring. The new species was named P. kewensis. Newton and Pellew (1929) note that spontaneous hybrids of P. verticillata and P. floribunda set tetraploid seed on at least three occasions. These happened in 1905, 1923 and 1926.

5.2.2 Maize (Zea mays)
Pasterniani (1969) produced almost complete reproductive isolation between two varieties of maize. The varieties were distinguishable by seed color, white versus yellow. Other genetic markers allowed him to identify hybrids. The two varieties were planted in a common field. Any plant's nearest neighbors were always plants of the other strain. Selection was applied against hybridization by using only those ears of corn that showed a low degree of hybridization as the source of the next years seed. Only parental type kernels from these ears were planted. The strength of selection was increased each year. In the first year, only ears with less than 30% intercrossed seed were used. In the fifth year, only ears with less than 1% intercrossed seed were used. After five years the average percentage of intercrossed matings dropped from 35.8% to 4.9% in the white strain and from 46.7% to 3.4% in the yellow strain.

5.3.1 Drosophila paulistorum
Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky (1971) reported a speciation event that occurred in a laboratory culture of Drosophila paulistorum sometime between 1958 and 1963. The culture was descended from a single inseminated female that was captured in the Llanos of Colombia. In 1958 this strain produced fertile hybrids when crossed with conspecifics of different strains from Orinocan. From 1963 onward crosses with Orinocan strains produced only sterile males. Initially no assortative mating or behavioral isolation was seen between the Llanos strain and the Orinocan strains. Later on Dobzhansky produced assortative mating (Dobzhansky 1972).

Here you are.

 

[omega2xx]

I'll give three examples of speciation.
Observed Instances of Speciation
5.1.1.2 Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
Digby (1912) crossed the primrose species Primula verticillata and P. floribunda to produce a sterile hybrid. Polyploidization occurred in a few of these plants to produce fertile offspring. The new species was named P. kewensis. Newton and Pellew (1929) note that spontaneous hybrids of P. verticillata and P. floribunda set tetraploid seed on at least three occasions. These happened in 1905, 1923 and 1926.

5.2.2 Maize (Zea mays)
Pasterniani (1969) produced almost complete reproductive isolation between two varieties of maize. The varieties were distinguishable by seed color, white versus yellow. Other genetic markers allowed him to identify hybrids. The two varieties were planted in a common field. Any plant's nearest neighbors were always plants of the other strain. Selection was applied against hybridization by using only those ears of corn that showed a low degree of hybridization as the source of the next years seed. Only parental type kernels from these ears were planted. The strength of selection was increased each year. In the first year, only ears with less than 30% intercrossed seed were used. In the fifth year, only ears with less than 1% intercrossed seed were used. After five years the average percentage of intercrossed matings dropped from 35.8% to 4.9% in the white strain and from 46.7% to 3.4% in the yellow strain.

5.3.1 Drosophila paulistorum
Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky (1971) reported a speciation event that occurred in a laboratory culture of Drosophila paulistorum sometime between 1958 and 1963. The culture was descended from a single inseminated female that was captured in the Llanos of Colombia. In 1958 this strain produced fertile hybrids when crossed with conspecifics of different strains from Orinocan. From 1963 onward crosses with Orinocan strains produced only sterile males. Initially no assortative mating or behavioral isolation was seen between the Llanos strain and the Orinocan strains. Later on Dobzhansky produced assortative mating (Dobzhansky 1972).

Here you are.

You can't use man tinkering with a process to support evolution. What happens MUST happen naturally.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You can't use man tinkering with a process to support evolution. What happens MUST happen naturally.

Shifting the goalposts. Real mature.
What I showed WAS speciation, no matter how much you don't like it.

 

[omega2xx]

Shifting the goalposts. Real mature.
What I showed WAS speciation, no matter how much you don't like it.

Speciation MUST happen naturally.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Speciation MUST happen naturally.

No it doesn't! You are in no position to dictate what must and must not happen.

 

[tas8831]

Prove it yourself. Plant some corn and see what you get.

Inability to support your own claims observed.

Concession accepted.

 

[Speedwell]

I always plant "silver queen" corn. It is a hybrid and will not produce after its kind. Hybrids are caused by men tinkering with the process to try and improve the variety.. It will not happen naturally.

It's just interesting that you use a variety which is bred not to show much variation to deny the existence of variation.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The Bible says there was a universal flood, Unless you can prove there was not one, there was one,

ow my.

The quran says Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not true. You will ALWAYS get the exact same variety you planted. I have been gardening for over 40 years and it has not failed yet.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I can't prove there was a flood and you can't prove there wasn't. Feel freed to provided any evidence you think support your OPINION.

I can't prove leprechauns are hiding pots of gold at the base of rainbows and you can't prove that they don't.

 

[Speedwell]

Speciation MUST happen naturally.

Not necessarily. Your case seems to be that no randomly distributed heritable variation occurs. Speciation by natural selection or forced selection demonstrate that it does, your joke about planting corn notwithstanding.

 

[tas8831]

First I doubt if there are that many varieties of beetles.

I really do not care what you doubt.

Even if there are, they are just varieties of the same species.

So you don't even know, yet offer up an ignorance-based assertion.

Remember what you wrote:

"That is no different than the great number of dog varieties in the same length of time."

Beetles form their own Order, with multiple suborders and dozens of Families and yes - more than 350,000 SPECIES.

But you think it is no different than a bunch of dog breeds.

You should try the Google one day.

Beetle - Wikipedia

Since the Bible doesn't give the age of the universe or when the flood occurred, 4000 yeas is only a guess.

Yet your brethren work so hard on such things!

Timeline for the Flood

"Using the Bible, well-documented historical events, and some math, we find that the Flood began approximately 4,359 years ago in the year 1656 AM or 2348 BC. Some may look for an exact date (i.e., month and day), but we are not given that sort of precision in Scripture."

The Bible says there was a universal flood, Unless you can prove there was not one, there was one,

There is no actual evidence that there was one, and there is evidence that the Noah flood story is just an embellished local flood story.

I have no idea what that refers to.

It refers to what appears to be you primary argument style - you have a knee-jerk (automatic) response without thinking it through.

 

[omega2xx]

No it doesn't! You are in no position to dictate what must and must not happen.

Yes it does and I do not dictate anything. Real science does and FYI, speciation does not result in a new species. Try insisting on some evidence before you accept something by faith alone.

 

[omega2xx]

Inability to support your own claims observed.

Concession accepted.

Amusing. You can't even understand such a simple, obvious proof. That is worse than amusing, it ispathetic.

 

[omega2xx]

I really do not care what you doubt.


So you don't even know, yet offer up an ignorance-based assertion.

Remember what you wrote:

"That is no different than the great number of dog varieties in the same length of time."

Beetles form their own Order, with multiple suborders and dozens of Families and yes - more than 350,000 SPECIES.

But you think it is no different than a bunch of dog breeds.

You should try the Google one day.

Beetle - Wikipedia



Yet your brethren work so hard on such things!

Timeline for the Flood

"Using the Bible, well-documented historical events, and some math, we find that the Flood began approximately 4,359 years ago in the year 1656 AM or 2348 BC. Some may look for an exact date (i.e., month and day), but we are not given that sort of precision in Scripture."



There is no actual evidence that there was one, and there is evidence that the Noah flood story is just an embellished local flood story.


It refers to what appears to be you primary argument style - you have a knee-jerk (automatic) response without thinking it through.

When you have some real scientific evidence, get back to me.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yes it does and I do not dictate anything. Real science does and FYI, speciation does not result in a new species. Try insisting on some evidence before you accept something by faith alone.

Definition of speciation:
the formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution.

The fact that you wrote something so blatantly wrong is just so incredibly laughable it's stupid.

 

[omega2xx]

Not necessarily. Your case seems to be that no randomly distributed heritable variation occurs. Speciation by natural selection or forced selection demonstrate that it does, your joke about planting corn notwithstanding.

You don't even understand speciation.

 

[omega2xx]

View attachment 224658

Amusing but sad. You still think pictures are evidence.

 

[omega2xx]

Definition of speciation:
the formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution.

The fact that you wrote something so blatantly wrong is just so incredibly laughable it's stupid.

Definitions, especially those invented by evolutionists, are not evidence.

Just as I suspected, you not only don't understand real science, you don't understand what constituted scientific evidence.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Definitions, especially those invented by evolutionists, are not evidence.

Just as I suspected, you not only don't understand real science, you don't understand what constituted scientific evidence.

This coming from the person who thinks that evolution occurs in a single generation and doesn't understand the very clear meaning of speciation? Give me a break.