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Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

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Safety of vaccines used for routine immunization of U.S. children: a systematic review.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.pubmed/25086160

Marc Girard MD explains the problems with a lot of reviewed studies.

By the distance between what it demonstrates and what it claims, this paper (as well as the preceding IOM report this one is supposed to update) illustrates that the issue of vaccines safety is still a matter of serious concern for anyone endowed with a minimum of expertise in drug safety or pharmacoepidemiology.
To start with methodological consistency, one may wonder why the McHarm instrument used by the authors to assess the quality of the reviewed studies was not published in a peer-reviewed journal (the internet link given by the authors [their ref. 7] being not accessible) whereas the only investigations they included had to be published (in contrast with Cochrane reviews which, inasmuch as possible, also take into account unpublished investigations). This inconsistency in the authors’ way of referencing sources exposes their review to a number of biases which are well known in general, but reach unparalleled levels as far as vaccines are concerned. To take just one example, the Ascherio et al.’s study, which suggested a lack of neurotoxicity with hepatitis B vaccination, was triumphantly published in The New England Journal of Medicine(2001;344:327-32) (despite its worrying biases, some of them detailed in further correspondence) with an accompanying editorial celebrating the study as a milestone, whereas, in spite of the professional fame of its authors and of its intrinsic quality, a later study on the same subject by Hernan et al., which suggested opposite conclusions, was first rejected by The NEJM, The Lancet, The BMJ (personal communication), before being published in Neurology (2004;63:838-42) with an accompanying editorial contending that nothing significant had changed regarding the safety of this immunization: as a matter of fact, Hernan was a co-writer of both studies… Another example of selective assessment, extracted from Maglione et al.’s paper itself: it remains unclear why the study by Gallagher and Goodman (which suggests a link between hepatitis B vaccine and autism) would display “high risk of bias and low quality”, whereas the “protective effect [of some vaccines] against acute lymphoblastic leukemia” does not deserve the slightest word of caution… Dozens of additional examples of publication biases could be cited: this is the personal experience of anyone working in the field of vaccines that positive results or enthusiastic reviews are far more easily published than negative investigations or critical comments. Finally and as a number of respected authors have already emphasized, a major part of vaccines studies are performed or supported by manufacturers or governmental agencies responsible for previous recommendations, a situation which clearly maximizes conflicts of interests.

Regarding now experimental designs in vaccine studies, the following list of methodological defects is concerned with safety assessments (but could be easily extended if efficacy issues were also concerned).

i) During development, use of false placebos as comparators (i.e. not devoid of pharmacological effects: adjuvants, other vaccines) is a frequent practice.

ii) Compared to the supposed duration of the beneficial immunological effects of the tested vaccines, the duration of the safety studies aimed at assessing a potential for delayed immunological hazards is often ridiculously short.

iii) Required on a standard regulatory basis with any new pharmacological entities, the interactions studies are weak, scarce, if not nonexistent with vaccines, whereas most of them are now administered as combinations.

iv) Likewise, the dose-ranging studies are generally defective, accounting for impressive changes in the booster recommendations once the vaccine is on the market, which would be inconceivable for any other drug.

Overall and as far as safety issues are concerned, Cochrane reviewers (e.g. in their reviews of flu vaccines) frequently identify blatant weaknesses in available studies which, apparently, are beyond of the reach of the McHarm instrument… On the contrary, Maglione et al. expressed frequent reservations about the “the strength of evidence” suggesting potential safety issues, but none about the power of the reviewed studies to effectively grasp evidence of vaccine hazards… Likewise, the authors are clearly not concerned with the tremendous tendency of vaccine studies (pre- or post-marketing) to underreport adverse events: experience suggests that physicians have a worrying reluctance to accept that vaccines might have adverse effects and, besides their indisputable tendency to brush aside any such suggestions from their patients, they do not hesitate to present as reassuring that “immunizations are up to date” when confronted with an unexplained disease, without even considering that these immunizations could have triggered the disease in question… Another illustration of the same bias: when reassuring, VAERS data are unchallenged, whereas the shortcomings of the system are immediately pointed out each time they may suggest a safety problem…

Maglione et al.’s review is regrettably silent on two crucial issues of the continuous extension of immunizations against trivial diseases:

i) maybe acceptable for one vaccination against a severe disease, the autoimmune risk related to the administration of foreign material increases arithmetically when vaccinations are multiplied beyond any sound limit;

ii) extended immunizations greatly alters the natural ecology of a number of infectious diseases (e.g. measles), a situation the assessment of which would be far more complex than the basic inventory of straightforward side-effects which, as mentioned above, is already severely defective from a methodological point of view: no reason to believe that vaccine promoters are better in complex assessments than in trivial ones…

As is easy to document, the never-ending extension of immunizations against anything is based upon the dramatization of anecdotic stories, sometimes tragic but fairly rare or even exceptional at a community scale. Yet, experience of drug assessment suggests that below frequencies of, at best, 1-2% of exposed patients, clinical trials fail to identify drug side-effects with a minimum of reliability (the statistical power of postmarketing surveillance being even lower by far). In a country like the USA, this detection threshold is consistent with a shadow area on iatrogenic risk of about 40,000-80,000 persons per vaccine for each vaccinated class of age: it should be obvious that risk-taking of such a size is simply disproportionate to the potential benefits of reducing the morbidity of trivial diseases (even taking into account the natural tendency of vaccine promoters to exaggerate the efficacy of immunizations…). The stubborn obfuscation of this evident arithmetical imbalance by health professionals or governmental agencies suggests that there is something rotten in the kingdom of immunization…

Marc GIRARD, MSc, MD

Well first of all, welcome. I see that your user name is Informed Consent. That's the same name as the group that wrote the letter @Saricharity appears to have copied & pasted from.

I looked at what you posted, it came straight from an anti-vaxxer group. It's pretty dang dishonest to copy and paste but not give the link to that site where you took it from. Instead you made it look like you were copying from the study you're posting the link to. Let's look at that study. I hope @Saricharity read it. They make a point of this: There is strong evidence that MMR vaccine is not associated with autism.

BACKGROUND:
Concerns about vaccine safety have led some parents to decline recommended vaccination of their children, leading to the resurgence of diseases. Reassurance of vaccine safety remains critical for population health. This study systematically reviewed the literature on the safety of routine vaccines recommended for children in the United States.


CONCLUSIONS:
We found evidence that some vaccines are associated with serious AEs; however, these events are extremely rare and must be weighed against the protective benefits that vaccines provide.


:oldthumbsup: You've done a good job reassuring us that vaccines don't cause autism, that risks are extremely rare & vaccines are beneficial.
 
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Jules43

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What a mess this is. Copying your post into Google showed where it came from - a letter the producer of the fraudumentary Vaxxed wrote to John Oliver on account of being butthurt about a show about vaccines. Thanks for this though, on account of you I now know about that show. If you were wanting to show what a dilettante the producer is, boy does this do a good job.

If you're going to keep posting a bunch of links you've copied from somewhere, please be prepared to actually talk about what's in them. You said you don't read them on account of the studies hurting your brain, so you're trusting the likes of the Vaxxed producer to tell you about them.

I have no idea what show that is but I know what she linked to was a white paper published on Oct 2nd, 2017.

http://icandecide.org/white-papers/VaccineSafety-Version-1.0-October-2-2017.pdf



Here is another:

http://icandecide.org/white-papers/ICAN-AluminumAdjuvant-Autism.pdf
 
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Jules43

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@Saricharity
I believe you have certainly established a good argument against Mandatory vaccination.
The fact that you are a young, university student asking questions and trying to alert others to concerns about immunization is to be applauded. There are many who agree with you. There are many who are concerned. You are brave to try and debate against others who seem to be more kowledgeable than you at debate. I can't decide if it's for lack of time on your part or if you are new to the whole topic. I'm leaning towards the former.
I am concerned by some posters here, by how belittling and downright rude they are considering this forum is a christian forum. I had to double check I hadn't read my facts wrong.
You have handled it with the utmost decorum. Kudos to you for that.
I would like to message you privately.
 
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Jules43

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Those who are jumping down Saricharity's throat about the chickenpox vaccine should know that the vaccine did not even become universal in Canada until April 2000. It may not have even been on her vaccine schedule as an infant or toddler. I do not know how old she is but my oldest child is 17 and that vaccine wasn't even mentioned to me by my doctor when I vaccinated. I did not even become aware of it until 2004 and even then my doctor and the entire clinic was hesitant to recommend it as necessary. By then, several of my children had already contracted chickenpox. I did not think anything of it as I remembered having the ailment when I was a child.
 
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Jules43

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Regardless of your views, it IS mandated in many areas including child care centres and schools

I can only speak about Canada.
It is not mandatory in Canada to vaccinate.
“Unlike some countries, immunization is not mandatory in Canada; it cannot be made mandatory because of the Canadian Constitution. Only three provinces have legislation or regulations under their health-protection acts to require proof of immunization for school entrance. Ontario and New Brunswick require proof for diphtheria, tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella immunization. In Manitoba, only measles vaccination is covered. It must be emphasized that, in these three provinces, exceptions are permitted on medical or religious grounds and reasons of conscience; legislation and regulations must not be interpreted to imply compulsory immunization.

Immunization in Canada – Volume: 23S4 – May 1997 — Canadian National Report on Immunization, 1996 Health Canada Website
 
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I have no idea what show that is but I know what she linked to was a white paper published on Oct 2nd, 2017.

Vaccine Safety
Introduction to Vaccine Safety Science and Policy in the United States.

whitepaper@icandecide.org listed as an address for correspondence.

Here is another:

http://icandecide.org/white-papers/ICAN-AluminumAdjuvant-Autism.pdf

Well Jules, like I said, when I Googled @Saricharity's post what came straight up was a letter the producer of the fraudumentary Vaxxed wrote, on account of being butthurt about the show John Oliver did on vaccines. The letter is published on that site you've just linked. The name of that group is Informed Consent Action Network, which coincidentally is just like the other brand-new user we've got in this thread.

Here's the info about that site:
About Informed Consent Action Network

ROTFLMBO. They've got the producer of Vaxxed, a lady who got her degree in opera music, the producer of kids TV shows, & then the driver who drove the Vaxxed tour bus as their team. You cannot make this stuff up. Not a single doctor in the bunch.
 
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@Saricharity
I believe you have certainly established a good argument against Mandatory vaccination.
The fact that you are a young, university student asking questions and trying to alert others to concerns about immunization is to be applauded. There are many who agree with you. There are many who are concerned. You are brave to try and debate against others who seem to be more kowledgeable than you at debate. I can't decide if it's for lack of time on your part or if you are new to the whole topic. I'm leaning towards the former.
I am concerned by some posters here, by how belittling and downright rude they are considering this forum is a christian forum. I had to double check I hadn't read my facts wrong.
You have handled it with the utmost decorum. Kudos to you for that.
I would like to message you privately.

Nope, what @Saricharity has established is that the OP of this thread is the gal who deserves a round of applause. That gal is the one who wrote out an informative post in her own words. What @Saricharity has done is copied and pasted a bunch of stuff from anti-vaxxer sites. She's done a much better job showing why vaccine requirements are necessary, on account of how too many would rather get their "research" from blog sites & fraudumentaries than from professionals who've published actual research.

Now as far as the belittling & rudeness, that gal has given it as much as it's given back to her. I do agree that we all need to do a better job acting like Christians on here.
 
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Those who are jumping down Saricharity's throat about the chickenpox vaccine should know that the vaccine did not even become universal in Canada until April 2000. It may not have even been on her vaccine schedule as an infant or toddler. I do not know how old she is but my oldest child is 17 and that vaccine wasn't even mentioned to me by my doctor when I vaccinated. I did not even become aware of it until 2004 and even then my doctor and the entire clinic was hesitant to recommend it as necessary. By then, several of my children had already contracted chickenpox. I did not think anything of it as I remembered having the ailment when I was a child.

Nobody is jumping down @Saricharity's throat on account of her having chicken pox & shingles. I feel sorry for her for that, truly I do. Sorry for anybody who's had shingles. I was just surprised, is all, on account of having thought she was about 16, which is really dang young for shingles. Chicken pox used to be common, but on account of how most kids today have gotten the vaccine, it's much more uncommon. The problem was that she gave bad information about the vaccine. @PsychoSarah did a real good job responding to her about that.
 
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Jules43

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In response to wanting to know more about the whole idea surrounding shedding...there is a reason to be concerned, cautious and aware.

Chickenpox (varicella) vaccine:
“Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX. Susceptible high-risk individuals include Immunocompromised individuals; • Pregnant women without a documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection; • Newborn infants of mothers without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella immunity.” VARIVAX® - SOURCE: Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Package Insert)

Some overplay it and some downplay it. I feel we should be cautious.

There are also articles like this regarding Pertussis:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...cine-does-not-stop-spread-disease-lab-animals

Articles like this about Rotavirus:
Rotavirus vaccines: viral shedding and risk of transmission - ScienceDirect
 
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Jules43

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In contrast, vaccines are not required to undergo long-term double-blind inert-placebo controlled trials to assess safety. In fact, not a single one of the clinical trials for vaccines given to babies and toddlers had a control group receiving an inert placebo. Further, most pediatric vaccines currently on the market have been approved based on studies with inadequate followup periods of only a few days or weeks.

I would love to see and read literature on this. Where did you get your sources?
 
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Canada is part of America (as are about 35 other nations) and that is not true here. Vaccines are provided at no charge to everyone as needed.

Canada (country), along with America (country), is part of the Americas (continents). There's only one America (country) in the Americas (continents) however.
 
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Herd immunity is a lie. It is based on natural immunity. Multiple doses are weak and short lived that's why you need them over and over until adult. I haven't been vaccinated since I was 14 I'm almost 40 now. I don't get sick. A lot of these viruses all cause flu like symptoms and you may never even know you had it. We have been in contact with diseases for thousands of years in us and on us.

Everything’s a lie, isn’t it...? Except for the parts that agree with your conspiracy theory, right...?

And yes, we’ve been in contact with diseases right through our evolutionary development....and they used to kill us by the millions...! This is one of the major reasons why average life expectancies have risen so dramatically over the last few centuries...we now have the means to protect ourselves from those diseases...
 
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In response to wanting to know more about the whole idea surrounding shedding...there is a reason to be concerned, cautious and aware.


Chickenpox (varicella) vaccine:
“Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX. Susceptible high-risk individuals include Immunocompromised individuals; • Pregnant women without a documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection; • Newborn infants of mothers without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella immunity.” VARIVAX® - SOURCE: Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Package Insert)

Some overplay it and some downplay it. I feel we should be cautious.

I think that St. Jude Children's Research hospital are concerned, cautious & aware about the wellbeing of their patients. In bold letters they wrote:
Immunosuppressed children may not be able to receive certain live, attenuated virus vaccines, such as oral polio, smallpox, MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), chickenpox, rotavirus, and nasal flu (influenza) vaccines, while receiving cancer treatment. For these reasons, it becomes even more important that siblings and adults who live with a childhood cancer patient are vaccinated following pediatric and adult vaccination schedules to minimize the chances of exposing the immune suppressed child to a vaccine-preventable disease. It is safe and important for household contacts to receive the MMR vaccine as per the national vaccination guidelines.

For an immune suppressed child, the risk of infection from a live, attenuated virus vaccine is small compared to the risk of infection from exposure to someone with a vaccine-preventable disease. It is still recommended for your immune suppressed child:



Thanks. Let's all be really cautious & aware of any baboons who've recently gotten a pertussis vaccine.

I am glad that the baboons who got the vaccine didn't get severe whooping cough like the poor ones who were unvaccinated did.
As expected, the unvaccinated baboons developed severe whooping cough, while the baboons that had been sick previously remained well, the research team reports today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Both groups of vaccinated animals also remained healthy. However, the germ persisted an average of 35 days in the throats of baboons vaccinated with the acellular shot, though it grew less thickly than it did in the throats of the sick, unvaccinated animals. Baboons vaccinated with the whole-cell shot harbored the germ for 18 days, and it did not grow at all in animals that previously had recovered from pertussis.

This article makes a good case FOR the vaccine & how well it works.

Pertussis starts out like a normal cough but causes severe coughing fits and can be lethal to infants. By the time of diagnosis, it is often untreatable with antibiotics. Historically associated with the slums of pre-World War II Europe and America, the disease has made a powerful resurgence in recent years. The United States alone experienced about 50,000 cases of pertussis last year, with 18 deaths, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The increase could be due in part to more sensitive tools to diagnose pertussis that were widely introduced in 2010, or to pockets of children whose parents oppose vaccination.



Another source that stresses the benefit of the vaccine & says that vaccination should be encouraged. :oldthumbsup:

Rotavirus causes gastroenteritis in almost all children by 5 years of age. Immunity to rotavirus is incomplete, with potential for recurrent infections occurring throughout life. Live rotavirus vaccines have been developed for the protection of children from severe wildtype rotavirus infections. Transmission of vaccine virus strains from vaccinated children to unvaccinated contacts harbours the potential for herd immunity, but also the risk of vaccine-derived disease in immunocompromised contacts. A review of rotavirus vaccine prelicensure studies shows that viral shedding and transmission were higher with the old tetravalent rhesus rotavirus vaccine than with the current human attenuated monovalent rotavirus vaccine and the pentavalent bovine-human reassortant vaccine. Immunocompromised contacts should be advised to avoid contact with stool from the immunised child if possible, particularly after the first vaccine dose for at least 14 days. Since the risk of vaccine transmission and subsequent vaccine-derived disease with the current vaccines is much less than the risk of wildtype rotavirus disease in immunocompromised contacts, vaccination should be encouraged.
 
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Jules43

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The problem was that she gave bad information about the vaccine.

I didn't see her giving bad information. She was talking about shingles.

Shingles cannot be passed from one person to another. However, the virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, can spread from a person with active shingles to cause chickenpox in someone who had never had chickenpox or received chickenpox vaccine.

The virus is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters caused by shingles.

A person with active shingles can spread the virus when the rash is in the blister-phase. A person is not infectious before the blisters appear. Once the rash has developed crusts, the person is no longer infectious.
Shingles | Transmission - How Spreads | Herpes Zoster | CDC
 
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I didn't see her giving bad information. She was talking about shingles.

Shingles cannot be passed from one person to another. However, the virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, can spread from a person with active shingles to cause chickenpox in someone who had never had chickenpox or received chickenpox vaccine.

The virus is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters caused by shingles.

A person with active shingles can spread the virus when the rash is in the blister-phase. A person is not infectious before the blisters appear. Once the rash has developed crusts, the person is no longer infectious.
Shingles | Transmission - How Spreads | Herpes Zoster | CDC

Please see the posts @Saricharity wrote that @PsychoSarah responded to.
 
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