How Do We Know That The Bible Is The Complete and Inerrant Word of God?

[Kaon]

The bible contains the motherload of gold, other writings contain gems that are also found in the bible or they are not scriptural based and therefore unacceptable as proof. Better to know the bible.

The bible is a canon, whose books were chosen by men for the purposes of deteremining what is profitible for men.

I have read the canon, and I have read the apocryphal library. All of them have gems; none of them have a motherload of gold.

The Gold is Living; you do not need the apocrypha, Church or bible canon to get this Gold. It has mined and purified Itself, and It has presented Itself to us in abundance - we don't have to do any work but believe what we already have is Gold, not an alloy.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

.. And, even the DEAD, CARNAL man was expected to have [unyielding] faith and Know His Voice, and remain obedient to the Most High God.

Dead carnal man needing/expected to have such faith?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The bible is a canon, whose books were chosen by men for the purposes of deteremining what is profitible for men.

I have read the canon, and I have read the apocryphal library. All of them have gems; none of them have a motherload of gold.

The Gold is Living; you do not need the apocrypha, Church or bible canon to get this Gold. It has mined and purified Itself, and It has presented Itself to us in abundance - we don't have to do any work but believe what we already have is Gold, not an alloy.

Then you are also familiar with God's ark being put in the company of Dagon the father of Ba'al and God bringing that situation about w/o the help of human hands. The bible is the ark that carries the promises.

 

[Steve Petersen]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

 

[Halbhh]

I understand your point (I think) about the shades of gray, but I don't think there is a gray area. Faith is a transformative thing; it transcends carnality and the periodic activity of humanity and human thinking - which is why hardly anyone has FAITH, and Christ alludes to it when He asks if He will find it.

The Comforter is what destroys the gray area - and this is something people before Christ were not afforded. Their spirits were DEAD, and they were simple sons of men. This is why it is such a big deal when God found someone on the planet that had the conviction to believe, and try to remain obedient to His statutes - as a carnal man with no spirit!

Why, then, do we believe we can ignore His statutes when we are given the gift of a convicting Spirit to not only make us think twice about sin, but also instructs us on how to live upright and according to the Most High God. God may have been more lenient when we were DEAD, but in Christ we are now ALIVE (He meant what He said,) and we are held to a much higher standard than a DEAD carnal man.

And, even the DEAD, CARNAL man was expected to have [unyielding] faith and Know His Voice, and remain obedient to the Most High God.

This is true.

2 things to consider

Matthew 7:24-27
From the wording He used, we realize we have to know more than 1 or 2 things He said to us to do, and be doing them, and yes, you could do that with very good following the spirit, and repenting promptly when you stumble.

But since there are so many doctrines so many come up with, it's invaluable to have His actual instructions/commands to us clearly in words we can come back to.

Next, that His words are actually the key way to begin and strengthen faith!

"So faith is from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

 

[Hieronymus]

@Sam Karriker
You say there is reference to this book? In the Bible, is there a scripture which both names the book plus gives an actual quote which that scripture says is in the book of Enoch?

Well, i'm no expert at all, and i've been putting off studying it too.
But no, the book of Enoch is not referenced to with verse numbers.
And it's only 1st Enoch that is to be considered as a part of the Bible.
the Etheopian Church includes it though.
Others have been on the fence about it.

I ask this, because a scripture might name Enoch but not give an actual quote; so in such a case can you know the scripture means the Enoch of the book? Also, there might be a scripture which has a similar matching item in the book of Enoch, but this does not automatically mean the scripture is quoting the book of Enoch. And how well does all the rest of Enoch match with scripture, in case some part does or seems to?

Bible scholars recognise Enochian stuff in New Testament chapters.
It's 2nd Temple period literature, known to the Jews back then.
I can relate to the reluctance and doubts to add it to the Canon though.
And maybe it shouldn't be, or only as a tool for adding context and some bits of demonology and "angelology".
It does provide a lot of answers to that seemingly isolated crazy bit of Genesis 6 though, about the giants / Nephilim.

 

[Kaon]

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

The only One who can add or remove law is [The Word of] God.

The addition of this commandment does not negate our responsibility to follow the plethora of others the Most High God had already set up.

Matt 5:17-20:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
​

In order to exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you need to follow and know the Law perfectly, and you need to actually love God (which means there is no status or award expected when following the laws of God because you do that for people/Parents you love.)

Now, consider this - John 14:15-20:

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

[emphasis mine]
​

He tells us that if we love Him, we will KEEP the commandments The Literal, Living Word of God gave since the foundations. The Most High God - the Father told us:

Now, Jeremiah 31:31-34:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No one needs any construction of man to know God. He promised us so much - including that His Word will be written on our hearts! That is good news - that you can be a dullard, and He will still consider you so that you will know Him.

 

[Kaon]

Dead carnal man needing/expected to have such faith?

Yes. Adam, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Jeremiah, David, Solomon, etc. were all DEAD. Yet, God held them to His standards - as His people. And, He reprimended them when they transgress His laws even as carnal, aimless man.


Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil meant we became judges. What judge isn't held to the standard of the law - no matter how corrupt they are?

It was this corruption that eventually led God to tell His chosen people that He was tired of their VAIN oblations.

The "old testament/old school" God that always is is the same God; He just seemed harsher because we dont realize the magnitude of what Adam and Eve for the entirety of creation.

God [chose to] died. He resurrected, but He died for us. Adam and Eve acted, and it was significant for us.

 

[Halbhh]

The only One who can add or remove law is [The Word of] God.

The addition of this commandment does not negate our responsibility to follow the plethora of others the Most High God had already set up.

Matt 5:17-20:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
​

In order to exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you need to follow and know the Law perfectly, and you need to actually love God (which means there is no status or award expected when following the laws of God because you do that for people/Parents you love.)

Now, consider this - John 14:15-20:

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

[emphasis mine]
​

He tells us that if we love Him, we will KEEP the commandments The Literal, Living Word of God gave since the foundations. The Most High God - the Father told us:

Now, Jeremiah 31:31-34:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No one needs any construction of man to know God. He promised us so much - including that His Word will be written on our hearts! That is good news - that you can be a dullard, and He will still consider you so that you will know Him.

Useful summary!

It's so wonderful that no matter how little our understandings may be, we can rely on His very simple and clear words to us. Here's such an invaluable example that helps us at times when we are stumbling (as all do at times, but especially those not already long matured, but still working and/or raising kids, still in the world):

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

We are led, invaluable, essentially, crucially, by His spirit helping us. Yet, when we are somehow distracted by the world (such as is a normal life of anyone with a family for example, especially if we did not pray today as He said in the words He gave us to pray), then we can rely on His words, or how the spirit makes us remember what He said.

And with this aid to our minds, stop going in the wrong direction, and turn back more quickly. In other words, we don't have to stumble for days or weeks before we repent, if we have a touchstone like this to remember, actual words.

We can turn even in a second, remembering His words, and come back onto the path, the way, which He has set for us. We can repent as needed in just minutes, not waiting days or weeks.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yes. Adam, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Jeremiah, David, Solomon, etc. were all DEAD. Yet, God held them to His standards - as His people. And, He reprimended them when they transgress His laws even as carnal, aimless man.


Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil meant we became judges. What judge isn't held to the standard of the law - no matter how corrupt they are?

It was this corruption that eventually led God to tell His chosen people that He was tired of their VAIN oblations.

The "old testament/old school" God that always is is the same God; He just seemed harsher because we dont realize the magnitude of what Adam and Eve for the entirety of creation.

God [chose to] died. He resurrected, but He died for us. Adam and Eve acted, and it was significant for us.

There's a difference between being clothed in the Spirit and having the indwelling Spirit to be sure. But faith is a gift that is expected to be used and when it is more is added to it. The mantle for understanding is not the same as the fire from on high that didn't till that time have the propitiation accepted.
But nonetheless I understand the line of thinking that wants to add to scripture the book of Enoch, then the book of Thomas is lined up behind that for approval, but what part of not adding or taking away don't you understand?

 

[fhansen]

See post #3

But (even seeing the known accuracy about some things) still there is also the true metaphor that even if one thinks we have an old window with some flaws, and even if broken or having whatever bits of distortions even, being a window, however it's condition, the light of the sun shines through!

Light comes through both imperfect and perfect windows and shines down on us, illuminating.

Yes, I think that has to be the case. I certainly prefer to have the most correct translations as possible of course. But my point was that, even then, more has to shine through in order for us to actually believe we're reading the Word of God-and we must make that determination for ourselves, with His help.

 

[Kaon]

Then you are also familiar with God's ark being put in the company of Dagon the father of Ba'al and God bringing that situation about w/o the help of human hands. The bible is the ark that carries the promises.

The bible is the sum of ecumenical success on text. It is an academic compilation on spiritual matters chosen for man.

The ark is an artifact of God that had a "piece" of Him that would always be with the Hebrews. Yes, several principalities and archons (including even the power Ba'al) have been trying to get their hands on this artifact not because they can contain God, but because they want to exploit the residual energy left. It is the same thing with the spear of destiny. They cant match God, but they will try to use [spiritual] reverse-engineering to fight Him.

Yet, and still, as God always promises, that a remnant will be preserved, and that He will pour His spirit in them instead. They can't outsmart Him; they can't fight Him. They can only hope to mimic Him, and find a point of capitalization.

Deceiving His children into falling from their status as Children of God was one of the "games" they tried to use against their Superior opponent. It is why the evil cliche exists on this planet now (a weaker person exploiting the alleged weakness of a superior opponent.)

The canonical text is not in, and of itself, anything but a tool for finding God, but it isn't The Way. God has already promised us The Way on our literal hearts. We have to circumcise our stony hearts to accept it.

 

[com7fy8]

@Hieronymus Thank you for making the effort to share with me about the book of Enoch. I looked at one version on the Net, and pretty quick it seemed counterfeit. But did I read what others are talking about? How would I know . . . from the Net ?

I find that the Bible has so much more than many writings have. Even if others might have something, there is so much to get in the Bible. But so much is required by the Bible; only God is able to have us succeeding . . . with Him . . . into all He means for us to share with Him.

 

[Kaon]

There's a difference between being clothed in the Spirit and having the indwelling Spirit to be sure. But faith is a gift that is expected to be used and when it is more is added to it. The mantle for understanding is not the same as the fire from on high that didn't till that time have the propitiation accepted.
But nonetheless I understand the line of thinking that wants to add to scripture the book of Enoch, then the book of Thomas is lined up behind that for approval, but what part of not adding or taking away don't you understand?

You cannot add or take away from The Living Word of God; it doesn't apply to canonical texts (i.e. Enoch, bible, etc.)

The Christ is THE Living Word of God.


No man should choose which texts, therefore, are profitable for other men's spirits.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

You cannot add or take away from The Living Word of God; it doesn't apply to canonical texts (i.e. Enoch, bible, etc.)

The Christ is THE Living Word of God.


No man should choose which texts, therefore, are profitable for other men's spirits.

What, pray tell, would you base conversations of theology on then?

 

[Kaon]

This is true.

2 things to consider

Matthew 7:24-27
From the wording He used, we realize we have to know more than 1 or 2 things He said to us to do, and be doing them, and yes, you could do that with very good following the spirit, and repenting promptly when you stumble.

But since there are so many doctrines so many come up with, it's invaluable to have His actual instructions/commands to us clearly in words we can come back to.

Next, that His words are actually the key way to begin and strengthen faith!

"So faith is from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

I am not going to argue further my point in this context. I agree one can make a foundational beginning by hearing/reading a canonical text.

My argument is 1) that a canonical text is not necessary to make the foundational step, 2) the same foundation could, theoretically, begin with an apocryphal text, 3) a canonical text is not necessarily the best step, and 4) neither canonical text nor hearing from humans is The Way, and the Way is already in the person so much so that one can go having never seen a bible or person and know God.

 

[Kaon]

What, pray tell, would you base conversations of theology on then?

Philosophy.


Theology is the study of religion. Religion is organized collection of faith, related texts and statutes that define a faith. Discussing the study of organized collection of faith, texts and statutes is philosophy.

A philosopher of religion has no obligation to love the object of the religion - they just have to study it (Pharisees and scribes.) This is why it is misleading at best to trust scholars before you believe what God says (He put the Truth on our hearts - from the smallest of us to the greatest of us.)

 

[Halbhh]

I am not going to argue further my point in this context. I agree one can make a foundational beginning by hearing/reading a canonical text.

My argument is 1) that a canonical text is not necessary to make the foundational step, 2) the same foundation could, theoretically, begin with an apocryphal text, 3) a canonical text is not necessarily the best step, and 4) neither canonical text nor hearing from humans is The Way, and the Way is already in the person so much so that one can go having never seen a bible or person and know God.

Well, indeed, we know that the very early believers converted as the Apostles/disciples began to preach heard the gospel right from these witnesses, orally, and then followed Christ by spirit, without written text (though in time epistles/letters from the disciples would come and be read of course and also help of course).

 

[Kaon]

Well, indeed, we know that the very early believers converted as the Apostles/disciples began to preach heard the gospel right from these witnesses, orally, and then followed Christ by spirit, without written text (though in time epistles/letters from the disciples would come and be read of course and also help of course).

That is what I was getting at. My responses are from archived memories of apologetic I demanded as an agnostic, and ones I gave when I became a believer.

Essentially, God is not so mean that He would not make a way for anyone on this planet who truly wants Him as a Father. Imperialism is not needed; a person on a deserted island can actually know God on His own.


How else did Adam and Eve do it?

 

[Halbhh]

That is what I was getting at. My responses are from archived memories of apologetic I demanded as an agnostic, and ones I gave when I became a believer.

Essentially, God is not so mean that He would not make a way for anyone on this planet who truly wants Him as a Father. Imperialism is not needed; a person on a deserted island can actually know God on His own.


How else did Adam and Eve do it?

!

34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

Praise the Lord!