ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved

[Jonathan Leo]

So final justification is determined by ones obedience of works, is what you are saying?

Is what you believe in that we are saved by grace regardless of works? Because if that were true I’m off to party, grab a hooker, smoke some weeds etc, you know, basically everything my flesh desires.
Go on man, live it up, Jesus saves. Sorry brother, this ain’t biblical

 

[MDC]

Correct because they dont bear fruit, yet claim to be walking in the spirit. God doesn’t save people, Jesus died as the sacrifice for sins yes, but It is up to us to walk in obiediance to what Jesus tells us. Those who claim to walk with Jesus yet live as he never existed are the false converts.

God doesn’t save people? Really? So how exactly are people saved?

 

[Jonathan Leo]

That's just like saying a ferry boat operator who carries people across peugot sound
"fails" in their assigned job
if someone jumps overboard ..... i.e. that has nothing to do with the completion of their job perfectly even....
people do not lose their free will to jump overboard when they get on the ferry.

Neither is it written anywhere that people lose their free will to jump overboard - to refuse to keep abiding in JESUS,
that has always been their choice.

So Jesus is not the one who failed. You and they are , for not accepting His Word freely and wholeheartedly WITH FREE WILL.

People don’t understand that Jesus didn’t die for the sins of the world. If that were the case, nobody would be in hell. But there will be because whilst He died as the atonement for sin, people still either refuse Gods grace or abuse it.
Well said, and good analogy

 

[Jonathan Leo]

God doesn’t save people? Really? So how exactly are people saved?

By knowing the truth and walking in it
It is Gods wish for all to be saved but not all are saved. So if God does save, why are t all saved??
It all boils down to us. We have the truth and free will.

 

[MDC]

Is what you believe in that we are saved by grace regardless of works? Because if that were true I’m off to party, grab a hooker, smoke some weeds etc, you know, basically everything my flesh desires.
Go on man, live it up, Jesus saves. Sorry brother, this ain’t biblical

That’s really what you get from reading what I just posted? Or just confused because you can’t see why your works plays no role towards your justification before God? If that’s the case then that’s unbiblical and a denial of the gospel. Sorry to crush your spirits

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

By knowing the truth and walking in it
It is Gods wish for all to be saved but not all are saved. So if God does save, why are t all saved??
It all boils down to us. We have the truth and free will.

Most people do not have the truth, nor free will. So this will run into trouble trying to back up you claim here.

This is true: (as a promise from YHVH) : If you seek the TRUTH, and keep seeking the TRUTH, you will know the TRUTH (JESUS), and the TRUTH (JESUS) will set you free.
BUt this 'includes' without separation: JESUS BLOOD PURCHASES US. HE BORE OUR SINS upon a living tree , crucified with criminals, as prophecied by YHVH'S WORD. And we must be crucified with Him, as His Word Says. (not just head knowledge, "knowing truth" and walking in it) ....

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Most people do not have the truth, nor free will. So this will run into trouble trying to back up you claim here.

This is true: (as a promise from YHVH) : If you seek the TRUTH, and keep seeking the TRUTH, you will know the TRUTH (JESUS), and the TRUTH (JESUS) will set you free.
BUt this 'includes' without separation: JESUS BLOOD PURCHASES US. HE BORE OUR SINS upon a living tree , crucified with criminals, as prophecied by YHVH'S WORD. And we must be crucified with Him, as His Word Says. (not just head knowledge, "knowing truth" and walking in it) ....

Be doers of the word and not just hearers of it lest you be decieved

 

[MDC]

By knowing the truth and walking in it
It is Gods wish for all to be saved but not all are saved. So if God does save, why are t all saved??
It all boils down to us. We have the truth and free will.

Wrong again! Unregenerate man has not the desire or will to come to Christ apart from grace.. no such thing as free will

 

[MDC]

By knowing the truth and walking in it
It is Gods wish for all to be saved but not all are saved. So if God does save, why are t all saved??
It all boils down to us. We have the truth and free will.

Gods will saves whom He wills. The election of grace in Christ

 

[MDC]

By knowing the truth and walking in it
It is Gods wish for all to be saved but not all are saved. So if God does save, why are t all saved??
It all boils down to us. We have the truth and free will.

So your works saves you is what you are saying? It is why you can’t see Gods grace in salvation

 

[Jonathan Leo]

That’s really what you get from reading what I just posted? Or just confused because you can’t see why your works plays no role towards your justification before God? If that’s the case then that’s unbiblical and a denial of the gospel. Sorry to crush your spirits

Please brother, I’m not against you, I’m for you.
I am not saying our works is what save us because they can’t because it is only the blood of Jesus that can. But I am saying is this. If you are walking in Jesus your works should resemble that of Christ, if they don’t you are not truly saved because your faith without Jesus commands to us aka works is dead.
Multiple scriptures to back this up

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Be doers of the word and not just hearers of it lest you be decieved

Right and truth. And likewise no one can be a doer nor a hearer of the word unless YHVH granst this, and to be a doer of the word, requires being born again by the will of God in heaven. (not self- will, not self-choice, never self-accomplishment)

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Gods will saves whom He wills. The election of grace in Christ

Again, God wills everybody to be saved but not all will be saved. How can God contradict himself? He can’t, it’s man who is confused with something that’s written plain as day brother

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Right and truth. And likewise no one can be a doer nor a hearer of the word unless YHVH granst this, and to be a doer of the word, requires being born again by the will of God in heaven. (not self- will, not self-choice, never self-accomplishment)

Gods will. Amen

 

[MDC]

That's just like saying a ferry boat operator who carries people across peugot sound
"fails" in their assigned job
if someone jumps overboard ..... i.e. that has nothing to do with the completion of their job perfectly even....
people do not lose their free will to jump overboard when they get on the ferry.

Neither is it written anywhere that people lose their free will to jump overboard - to refuse to keep abiding in JESUS,
that has always been their choice.

So Jesus is not the one who failed. You and they are , for not accepting His Word freely and wholeheartedly WITH FREE WILL.

Evidently there is no understanding of what it means to be truly born again. Humanism is what you are espousing.. and no your will isn’t free, but in bondage to your sinful nature

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Evidently there is no understanding of what it means to be truly born again. Humanism is what you are espousing.. and no your will isn’t free, but in bondage to your sinful nature

Why then is the scripture warning us that the wages of the flesh is death but the wages of the spirit is life?.
If it’s a free ride, why not write a simple book of what Jesus said. One page would be sufficient.

Chapter 1 and the only chapter
Lads, I am Jesus Christ. My father sent me to tell ye that you are all sinners because of Adam. The father is going to kill me so that He will be satisfied and not pour our His wrath on ye woeful sinners. So when I die, all of mankind can enter heaven. The end

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Evidently there is no understanding of what it means to be truly born again. Humanism is what you are espousing.. and no your will isn’t free, but in bondage to your sinful nature

Because of the doctrine you fell for, I can understand that you don't understand.

Humanism is anti-Jesus, and I never traveled that road, nor ever accepted it.

You are "espousing" doctrine that requires accusing others of being wrong when they are right. To admit others are right, when it exposes the obvious errors of your doctrine you choose to believe in, would be to admit you are wrong, and that is not likely to happen until you are willing to give up the errors.
Even the false allegation you make, are errors, and sins to be repented of when YHVH granst grace for repentance.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Again, God wills everybody to be saved but not all will be saved. How can God contradict himself? He can’t, it’s man who is confused with something that’s written plain as day brother

It seems a problem with terminology, but it may be more than that -
YHVH desires that all may be saved, but He does not will it into being so.
He never contradicts Himself.
Mankind is not only confused, but pernicious (death dealing). That is as God's Word Says.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Because of the doctrine you fell for, I can understand that you don't understand.

Humanism is anti-Jesus, and I never traveled that road, nor ever accepted it.

You are "espousing" doctrine that requires accusing others of being wrong when they are right. To admit others are right, when it exposes the obvious errors of your doctrine you choose to believe in, would be to admit you are wrong, and that is not likely to happen until you are willing to give up the errors.
Even the false allegation you make, are errors, and sins to be repented of when YHVH granst grace for repentance.

Just to add for MDC, Jesus warned that many will fall away because of demonic doctrines. If Jesus is the truth, then one of us is very wrong. Jesus tells us in His word that it is not a free ride but a requirement of losing your life and taking up our cross. We will be hated for His name sake. It’s easy to see why you are comfortable with your beliefs. It requires no sacrifice of self. This is why I left my own church. It taught God is love, you can’t outdo His grace, everybody happy. The Bible and specifically Jesus teaches us it will be a very difficult walk. It’s why He called it the narrow road. It’s one way, His way and if Jesus said we need to crucify our own selfish desires and walk in the spirit, I am going to take Him at His word. Don’t believe me brother, believe Jesus

 

[Jonathan Leo]

It seems a problem with terminology, but it may be more than that -
YHVH desires that all may be saved, but He does not will it into being so.
He never contradicts Himself.
Mankind is not only confused, but pernicious (death dealing). That is as God's Word Says.

He can’t will it into being because that would take away mans free will. It’s sad to see but people actually hate God and even worse, don’t believe in Him.