• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How to choose between creation and evolution.

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
Ancient fossils with eye sockets with a hole for an optic nerve indicate that those eyes were pretty much like modern eyes. No evolution needed.
actually some ancient eyes were more complex (in some features) than modern eyes:

An eye-opening fossil

evolution doesnt predict that.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
That test doesn't apply to something that isn't falsifiable. An apple will still be an apple regardless of how many tests it is given.

Let's say we test the eye for falsifiability. In order to prove it is falsifiable we have to go back to it's evolutionary past and prove that it may have developed into a foot, or something else, instead.

As another pointed out all the parts of the eye must come together within the gestation period, fully functional, or no eye. Organisms don't build their working parts over time.

LOL
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If you don't have a falsifiable test to determine when this complexity is present or not, any evidence you claim is meaningless.

In the real world what is is usually what it appears to be.
 
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
so show me how the first light detector evolved. if its not realy a big step as you say it should be very easy to show that.

There are a number of examples of the evolution of light sensitive proteins. Most of these are based on opsin proteins, which have a number of non-vision functions as well as a big variety of other functions. E.g. some opsins are used by bacteria to harvest energy from light without using chlorophyll. Some opsins are sensitive to light, some aren't. The opsin proteins in general are used as an example of how molecular evolution works, as there are plenty of examples in the class where proteins have gained new functions (such as light sensitivity) due to mutations. That's the first step. However, it's quite complicated as opsins have a large number of roles, including non-vision light sensitivity roles.

Note that many of these proteins had a signalling role before the mutation that gave them light sensitivity. Hence, they were already positioned to affect the cells in response to light, when the mutation that caused light sensitivity happened, as they were already plugged into pathways.

A simpler example is the parallel evolution of light sensitivity in nemotode worms which is not based on an opsin-class protein. The light sensitive protein involved LITE-1 was found to have evolved from a taste-sensitive protein. There's your first step right there. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016...oundworms-sense-light-100-times-better-humans

fine. so basically you have no problem to believe that a watch can evolve naturally (of course only if it has all the traits you have point to).

What do you mean by this? Clearly there are no watches that have ANY of the traits I pointed out. Hence, your conclusions appears to be completely meaningless.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Larniavc
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I'm an OEC.

OK. What characteristics of life indicate a guiding hand rather than indicating evolution guided only by feedback from the environment?

You do say:

To the OP. My testable evidence is anatomy; the irreducible complexity thereof.

First, can you be clear what you mean by irreducible complexity? Some OECs describe irreducible complexity as an organ (etc.) which cannot function if one of its parts is removed. However, that is in no way incompatible with evolution only guided by feedback from the environment.

Then, can you tell us which parts of the anatomy could not have evolved.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Brightmoon
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,673
8,970
52
✟383,364.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
To the OP. My testable evidence is anatomy; the irreducible complexity thereof.
Can you give an example imod an irreducibly complex biological system?
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
OK. What characteristics of life indicate a guiding hand rather than indicating evolution guided only by feedback from the environment?

In a word, the sheer wonder of it all. :bow:
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
In a word, the sheer wonder of it all. :bow:
EVERY LIFE indicates THE CREATOR, ALL CREATION REVEALS HIS GLORY and POWER.

Just like the so-called 'great' masterpieces hanging in are galleries around the world
indicate an artist, ALL THE TIME. No exception. (that I know of)
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
How is 'wonder' incompatible with natural evolution?
EVERYTHING truthful that I know of , true science, true faith, true history, and so on,
is totally incompatible with so-called evolution.

Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting hanging in one of those art galleries just "appeared" in any way, over any length of time , without an artist !

Total nonsense, eh !?
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,673
8,970
52
✟383,364.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
so if that watch had those traits you will say its just evolved?
Say, don’t you think magical animal-cars are real? I keep asking and you never answer :(
 
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
EVERYTHING truthful that I know of , true science, true faith, true history, and so on,
is totally incompatible with so-called evolution.

Just taking one concept out of several you mention, what is 'true science' and how is it incompatible with evolution?
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,673
8,970
52
✟383,364.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Upvote 0