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Wherein I catch a professional YEC in a lie

DogmaHunter

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Real evidence will change my mind.

Okay. So tell us, describe the kind of evidence you would consider sufficient to change your mind about evolution theory?

You can use an example if you like.

A characteristic cause by a mutation may not be passed on to the next generation. Even if it continues, the species does not change. The albino remains whatever its parents were and it will reproduce after its kind. That is verifiable land can't be falsified.

Do I understand correctly that one of your objections to evolution is, that we never see a member of species A give birth to a member of species B?

You and the other evos need to get outside the box Darwin has put you in and learn to think and evaluate what is presented as evidence.

I accept evolution because of the evidence. Not because of what Darwin said or didn't say.

Start with this---time will not change proven laws of genetics.

What proven laws?
 
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DogmaHunter

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I ask first. When you present the evidence for natural selection, I will present the evidenced for the diversity of life.

That's kind of strange, since you seem convinced that no evidence for natural selection exists....

That is what you believe, yes?

In that case, you basically just said that you will only present your evidence, after someone else presents something that doesn't exist in your opinion.

Which, as far as you are concerned, results in never given your evidence.

What's that about?



Is it not embarassing for me to keep asking for evidence and you keep making excuses not to?
Kind of an ironic thing to say, given the previous quote....
 
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DogmaHunter

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Did you goggle "primordial soup?"

It might have been taught in school in the same classes that also taught evolution. But the origins of life were never part of evolution. Not even during darwin's time. In fact, in his book The Origins of Species, I think he even goes out of his way to explicitly say that his theory concerns the origins of bio-diversity - NOT origins of life itself.

But whatever you need to tell yourself, off course....

Evolution originally said lie began with a single cell. They originally called it simple cell, but when DNA was discovered, they had to walk that error back.

It's what science does.... it gathers more data, makes new discoveries and adjust theories where required to accomodate for that new data. It's called learning and making progress.

ps: evolution predicted a mechanism by which change is introduced in off spring and which is inherited by off spring. DNA provided exactly that.

Common descent, a non-provable doctrine of evolution

It's funny, because common ancestry is one of the genetic facts that evolution theory explains.

, requires a life fcorfm to be the beginning of life. So hey still teach itg.

Yes, for evolution to occur, life must exist.
This is why evolution theory starts with the "assumption" that life exists.

Not that much an assumption off course, since life demonstrably exists.
The only thing evolution has to say about "first life", is a prediction. That prediction being that first life was rather simple and thus not multi-cellular or something.
HOW that first life came to be, is out of scope.

Just to show you how much out of scope it really is....
Evolution theory would actually be fine with the idea that a god created those first simple living things. It doesn't matter to the theory at all...

Wheter first life formed through a bio-chemical reaction, was planted here by extra dimensional aliens or was miraculously created by a god. I doesn't matter.

As soon as it exists and reproduces with variation and competes for limited resources... evolution sets in.
 
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tas8831

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Clinton lying to the parents over the casket of one killed in Bengazzi is on tape.

Link to the tape.

If you watched the fair and balanced network, you would have to admit it.

I don't watch any network, especially FOX, which is the opposite of fair and balanced. And if you had any sense, you would have to admit it.

Here is a tape of Dick Cheney lying to the American people:

Doubt WMD | User Clip | C-SPAN.org
 
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tas8831

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Did you goggle "primordial soup?"

Why would I need to?

Did you see where I documented Christian creationist Dr. Mitchell lying in the OP?
Evolution originally said lie began with a single cell. They originally called it simple cell, but when DNA was discovered, they had to walk that error back.

Hmmm... Maybe because they didn't know about DNA before?

What point are you making?

Common descent, a non-provable doctrine of evolution, requires a life fcorfm to be the beginning of life. So hey still teach itg.

You are becoming unhinged.

Why? You can't prove anything you say about any doctrine of the TOE.

It is not a doctrine.

I can prove that the methods used to reconstruct phylogenies are accurate, and by extrapolation, as these methods have been used to answer evolution-based questions, that phylogeny is real.
 
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omega2xx

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Why would I need to?

Did you see where I documented Christian creationist Dr. Mitchell lying in the OP?

No, sorry. Maybe you thought it was a lie because you didn't understand it.what He said. Post it to me and I will comment on it. Also what he said may be wrong, but that does not make it a lie.


Hmmm... Maybe because they didn't know about DNA before?

What point are you making?

DNA is far to complex for it to have come into being by accident..

You are becoming unhinged.

I have found that when someone one can't prove what they say, they resort to insults.

It is not a doctrine.

Get a good dictionary and look up doctrine.

I can prove that the methods used to reconstruct phylogenies are accurate, and by extrapolation, as these methods have been used to answer evolution-based questions, that phylogeny is real.

They may be, but it will not move the needle 1 point proving evolution is true.
 
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Speedwell

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DNA is far to complex for it to have come into being by accident..
Complexity is a mathematical concept; an assertion like that without the math to back it up is meaningless.
 
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omega2xx

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Link to the tape.

Look it up yourself. Then you have to believe it.

I don't watch any network, especially FOX, which is the opposite of fair and balanced. And if you had any sense, you would have to admit it.

That is the only news channel I watch and I have as much sense as you do. Maybe more.

Here is a tape of Dick Cheney lying to the American people:

Doubt WMD | User Clip | C-SPAN.org

Everyone lies now and then, including you.
 
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omega2xx

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It might have been taught in school in the same classes that also taught evolution. But the origins of life were never part of evolution. Not even during darwin's time. In fact, in his book The Origins of Species, I think he even goes out of his way to explicitly say that his theory concerns the origins of bio-diversity - NOT origins of life itself.

But whatever you need to tell yourself, off course....<<

It certainly was taught and I bet you can find some referenes in earlier books on the subject.

It's what science does.... it gathers more data, makes new discoveries and adjust theories where required to accomodate for that new data. It's called learning and making progress.

Evolution has not come up with anythign new in over 100 years.

ps: evolution predicted a mechanism by which change is introduced in off spring and which is inherited by off spring. DNA provided exactly that.Evolution has none no such thing and DNA separates species into "after their kind" It does not link species together.

It's funny, because common ancestry is one of the genetic facts that evolution theory explains.

Talk is cheap. Produce the evidence.

Yes, for evolution to occur, life must exist.
This is why evolution theory starts with the "assumption" that life exists.[

That life exist is not an assumption. How it originated is based on assumptions.

Not that much an assumption off course, since life demonstrably exists.
The only thing evolution has to say about "first life", is a prediction. That prediction being that first life was rather simple and thus not multi-cellular or something.
HOW that first life came to be, is out of scope.

All living cells have DNA, and that says none are simple, as evoluotion first taught/

Just to show you how much out of scope it really is....
Evolution theory would actually be fine with the idea that a god created those first simple living things. It doesn't matter to the theory at all...<<

Yes it does. Evolution teaches life began by natural processes. God producing life is by His power to create ex nihlo

]Wheter first life formed through a bio-chemical reaction, was planted here by extra dimensional aliens or was miraculously created by a god. I doesn't matter.

Yes it does. One requires not only a Creator,but also an Intelligent designer. One has not answers about the origin of life. Even science admits that life cannot come from lifeless elements.

As soon as it exists and reproduces with variation and competes for limited resources... evolution sets in.

All we ever see is life producing "after their kind." That can be proved by observation, and cannot be falsified.
 
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omega2xx

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That's kind of strange, since you seem convinced that no evidence for natural selection exists....

That is what you believe, yes?

In that case, you basically just said that you will only present your evidence, after someone else presents something that doesn't exist in your opinion.

Which, as far as you are concerned, results in never given your evidence.

What's that about?




Kind of an ironic thing to say, given the previous quote....

Ironic or not. Produce your evidence or it is time to move on. You really can't do it. Now prove me wrong.
 
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omega2xx

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Okay. So tell us, describe the kind of evidence you would consider sufficient to change your mind about evolution theory?

You can use an example if you like.

To proves something it must be observed and duplicated. I has been proved that all living cells have DNA.

Do I understand correctly that one of your objections to evolution is, that we never see a member of species A give birth to a member of species B?

Not only that it has never been observed, but it it is not genetically possible.

I accept evolution because of the evidence. Not because of what Darwin said or didn't say.

Then present your evidence.

What proven laws?

Goggle "laws of genetics."
 
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omega2xx

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The "how" of evolution is rather simple, really:

1. reproduce and pass on genes
2. mutate
3. survive
4. repeat

As usual all you have done is parrot the usual evo talking point. It also shows you do not understand mutations. They only alter characteristics, they NEVER change the species.
 
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omega2xx

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Maybe, just maybe, the reason for that is that in evolution theory, speciation isn't the result of a single mutation?

If you would actually take the time to learn what evolution theory is all about, perhaps you would have known that.



Actually.... usually they are neutral. Ever heared of the "mutation rate" of a species? It's how many mutations every newborn has on average. In humans, it is about 50-ish.

If usually mutations are harmfull, then the majority of these 50-ish mutations in every single human should be harmfull.

It should be rather obvious to you now, that that can not be a correct statement.



What laws?

I know more about evolution and science than you do.

I had 3 college courses that taught evolution as fact. I passed them all.
 
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AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
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I'll stick my nose in here for two points.

To proves something it must be observed and duplicated. I has been proved that all living cells have DNA.

Science does not deal with proof; it deals with evidence. BTW: It has not been proved that all living cells have DNA. It is entirely possible that there are cells that we have not yet discovered on Earth that only have RNA. And living cells on other planets could easily have an entirely different genetic code.

Then present your evidence.

Here are 29+ evidences for macroevolution, with appropriate references. 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

Creationists do seem to like to claim that there is no evidence for evolution. But, there is simply oodles of it.

I
I had 3 college courses that taught evolution as fact. I passed them all.

Can you explain how that could have happened if you are unaware of the evidence for evolution?
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Yes, but I wont.

Google "laws of genetics" and get educated.

It's typical for people who a spouting off nonsense to tell others to do their homework for them. I say if you cannot support an assertion, don't assert it.
 
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omega2xx

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I just did, I could only find mention of Mendel's Laws, are these what you are referring to?

Mendel published 3 laws of genetics. Here is the one you need to understand:

1) The Law of Segregation: Each inherited trait is defined by a gene pair. Parental genes are randomly separated to the sex cells so that sex cells contain only one gene of the pair. Offspring therefore inherit one genetic allele from each parent when sex cells unite in fertilization.

This law shows us that inherited traits are defined, determined, by a pair of genes. If the parents do not have the gene for a certain characteristic, bones for example, their kids cannot have that trait. Thus they can only reproduce "after their kind."

There can be differences in their kids, depending on which pair of genes is dominant. This can result in different eye color, skin color, etc, but it cannot cause a change of species.
 
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omega2xx

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It's typical for people who a spouting off nonsense to tell others to do their homework for them. I say if you cannot support an assertion, don't assert it.

It is also typical of those who spout off something can be proven but never provide the evidence to support it.


They would if they could but they can't.
 
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