LDS Were these people excommunicated?

[Ironhold]

People who HATE are NOT Christians.

Considering how much hate I've seen mainline Christians heap upon myself and other Mormons over the decades, I have a hard time believing that matters are as hard-and-fast as you insist.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

ADMIN HAT ON


Moved from Denomination-specifc Theology.


ADMIN HAT OFF

Thank You

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Considering how much hate I've seen mainline Christians heap upon myself and other Mormons over the decades, I have a hard time believing that matters are as hard-and-fast as you insist.

Read the First John quotes I published in this thread.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Obviously not all Protestants agree with his hate.

But again, I'm trying to understand your beliefs here: do you believe that Luther was not of Christ (due to his hatred of Jews) and no Protestants are of Christ either?

(I'm asking you the questions of your beliefs. Old threads can't answer those questions for me).

Your brush is too wide. A son is not responsible for the sins of their Father.

Each person is responsible for their own sin.

But, JS hate spilled into the Book of Mormon.

Since JS walked in darkness, he was not born of God's Spirit.

If one does not love the persons they do see, they are unable to love God because they do not know God.

If you want to see the darkness, There are many quotes here from LDS Collectors Library from the people I am asking about:
Racist Statements from the Mormon Church – LeeBaker.4Mormon.org

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As in the author from the 1950s?

As in the Wuest New Testament, he also wrote word studies.

There are many quotes here from LDS Collectors Library from the people I am asking about:
Racist Statements from the Mormon Church – LeeBaker.4Mormon.org

 

[Jane_Doe]

Considering how much hate I've seen mainline Christians heap upon myself and other Mormons over the decades, I have a hard time believing that matters are as hard-and-fast as you insist.

Same, with the caveat that this is *some* mainstream Christians, obviously not all or majority.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Your brush is too wide. A son is not responsible for the sins of their Father.

But you just said that you believe is a person hates they are not of Christ and neither are their followers. Therefore, by your logic Martian Luther and all Protestants are not of Christ.

Unless you don't believe the underlined part? Would you like to retract your previous statement as not being your beliefs?

 

[Rescued One]

Luther was not a Martian and not all Protestants are his followers.

 

[Ironhold]

Read the First John quotes I published in this thread.

I've had threats of violence against me simply for being Mormon.

Ask around any large grouping of Mormons and you'll find others who have also been subjected to threats of violence.

There is a *very* pronounced group of what is basically "Mainline Christian Antifa" who feel themselves justified in doing violence against "heretics", with "heretics" being defined as "anyone who doesn't believe as I do".

 

[Rescued One]

I've had threats of violence against me simply for being Mormon.

Ask around any large grouping of Mormons and you'll find others who have also been subjected to threats of violence.

There is a *very* pronounced group of what is basically "Mainline Christian Antifa" who feel themselves justified in doing violence against "heretics", with "heretics" being defined as "anyone who doesn't believe as I do".

Well, don't blame Christians for what that group of non-Christians does. If you insist on that we could blame Mormons for what FLDS do.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well, don't blame Christians for what that group of non-Christians does. If you insist on that we could blame Mormons for what FLDS do.

These "nonChristains" (as you term it) include many leader of Baptists churches, NonDemon, Calvary Chapel, Born Again Congregations, Evangelical churches etc. I have seen this hatred spewed from those pulpits.

 

[Rescued One]

These "nonChristains" (as you term it) include many leader of Baptists churches, NonDemon, Calvary Chapel, Born Again Congregations, Evangelical churches etc. I have seen this hatred spewed from those pulpits.

Show me! BTW, congregations aren't born again.

Also, did you know there have been Mormon murderers?

 

[Ironhold]

Show me! BTW, congregations aren't born again.

Also, did you know there have been Mormon murderers?

...Who have all been openly denounced by those who knew them.

In contrast, getting mainline Christians to apologize for the hatred we as Mormons have experienced at the hands of other mainline Christians is analogous to pulling teeth with a set of over-sized channellock.

If anything, mainline Christians who *do* apologize risk being blasted as "traitors" to the cause of mainline Christianity.

 

[Rescued One]

...Who have all been openly denounced by those who knew them.

In contrast, getting mainline Christians to apologize for the hatred we as Mormons have experienced at the hands of other mainline Christians is analogous to pulling teeth with a set of over-sized channellock.

If anything, mainline Christians who *do* apologize risk being blasted as "traitors" to the cause of mainline Christianity.

Hogwash. Christians don't have to apologize; haters do.

 

[Rescued One]

These "nonChristains" (as you term it) include many leader of Baptists churches, NonDemon, Calvary Chapel, Born Again Congregations, Evangelical churches etc. I have seen this hatred spewed from those pulpits.

Can you give us a quote that some pastor said, "I hate Mormons?" I highly doubt it. I can warn congegrations about Mormonism, but I've NEVER hated a Mormon.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Same, with the caveat that this is *some* mainstream Christians, obviously not all or majority.

are you sure your precieved hate from them, is not simply part of LDS persecution complex?LDS - LDS persecution complex

 

[Daniel Marsh]

But you just said that you believe is a person hates they are not of Christ and neither are their followers. Therefore, by your logic Martian Luther and all Protestants are not of Christ.

Unless you don't believe the underlined part? Would you like to retract your previous statement as not being your beliefs?

You are adding followers to my arguments.

As I said before it is each person.

But, in the case of Joseph Smith, his hate is reflected in his BoM.

God will not give true revelations, prophecies to those walking in darkness.

Those walking in darkness, God does send a lying spirit.

Bottom line, none of Smith's Scriptures are of God because of his hate.

1 Kings 22:22-23
And the Lord said unto him, ‘Wherewith?’ And he said, ‘Iwill go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And He said, ‘Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also. Go forth, and do so.’ Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:21-22
And he said, ‘I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail. Go out, and do even so.’
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.”

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,

In those texts I am pointing out that God sends "strong delusion" and a "lying spirit" to prophets walking in darkness.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Ezekiel 18 Good News Translation (GNT)
Individual Responsibility
18 The Lord spoke to me 2 of these things 11 that the father never did. He eats sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines and seduces other men's wives. 12 He cheats the poor, he robs, he keeps what a borrower gives him as security. He goes to pagan shrines, worships disgusting idols, 13 and lends money for profit. Will he live? No, he will not. He has done all these disgusting things, and so he will die. He will be to blame for his own death.

14 “Now suppose this second man has a son. He sees all the sins his father practiced, but does not follow his example. 15 He doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines. He doesn't seduce another man's wife 16 or oppress anyone or rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security. He feeds the hungry and gives clothing to the naked. 17 He refuses to do evil and doesn't lend money for profit. He keeps my laws and obeys my commands. He will not die because of his father's sins, but he will certainly live. 18 His father, on the other hand, cheated and robbed and always did evil to everyone. And so he died because of the sins he himself had committed.

19 “But you ask, ‘Why shouldn't the son suffer because of his father's sins?’ The answer is that the son did what was right and good. He kept my laws and followed them carefully, and so he will certainly live. 20 C)" data-cr="#cen-GNT-23965C" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">It is the one who sins who will die. A son is not to suffer because of his father's sins, nor a father because of the sins of his son. Good people will be rewarded for doing good, and evil people will suffer for the evil they do.

21 “If someone evil stops sinning and keeps my laws, if he does what is right and good, he will not die; he will certainly live. 22 All his sins will be forgiven, and he will live, because he did what is right. 23 Do you think I enjoy seeing evil people die?” asks the Sovereign Lord. “No, I would rather see them repent and live.

24 “But if a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing all the evil, disgusting things that evil people do, will he go on living? No! None of the good he did will be remembered. He will die because of his unfaithfulness and his sins.

25 “But you say, ‘What the Lord does isn't right.’ Listen to me, you Israelites. Do you think my way of doing things isn't right? It is your way that isn't right. 26 When a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing evil and then dies, he dies because of the evil he has done. 27 When someone evil stops sinning and does what is right and good, he saves his life. 28 He realizes what he is doing and stops sinning, so he will certainly not die, but go on living. 29 And you Israelites say, ‘What the Lord does isn't right.’ You think my way isn't right, do you? It is your way that isn't right.

30 “Now I, the Sovereign Lord, am telling you Israelites that I will judge each of you by what you have done. Turn away from all the evil you are doing, and don't let your sin destroy you. 31 Give up all the evil you have been doing, and get yourselves new minds and hearts. Why do you Israelites want to die? 32 D)" data-cr="#cen-GNT-23977D" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">I do not want anyone to die,” says the Sovereign Lord. “Turn away from your sins and live.”

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I've had threats of violence against me simply for being Mormon.

Ask around any large grouping of Mormons and you'll find others who have also been subjected to threats of violence.

There is a *very* pronounced group of what is basically "Mainline Christian Antifa" who feel themselves justified in doing violence against "heretics", with "heretics" being defined as "anyone who doesn't believe as I do".

see this thread, I really don't believe you because of the LDS Persecution Complex.
LDS - LDS persecution complex

I have meet many LDS Missionaries make the false claim that they are being persecuted.
Based on their behavior, I doubt they really understand what true persecution is.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Well, don't blame Christians for what that group of non-Christians does. If you insist on that we could blame Mormons for what FLDS do.

Hi Phoebe Ann, I think their claims are exaggerated because of this LDS - LDS persecution complex

In short, they are taught as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the real truth.