LDS Were these people excommunicated?

[Daniel Marsh]

These "nonChristains" (as you term it) include many leader of Baptists churches, NonDemon, Calvary Chapel, Born Again Congregations, Evangelical churches etc. I have seen this hatred spewed from those pulpits.

Name specific names of persons, so they can be invited here to give us the rest of the story.
Since, you claim it is from their pulpits, and their sermons now days are posted online, maybe you can quote in context and link to them for all to see and evaluate. Paul named names as our example.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Show me! BTW, congregations aren't born again.

Also, did you know there have been Mormon murderers?

The Danites and the Mountain Meadows Massacre comes to mind.


"To break a cycle of mutual suspicion, recrimination and violence, Brigham Young, who would succeed Smith, made plans to lead the remaining LDS members on an exodus to Utah, which was then part of Mexico—beyond the reach of U.S. law.

As a recent convert John D. Lee joined a secret church order called the Danites, which was charged with protecting and defending Mormons. When some Missourians opposed to Mormons’ voting started a riot at a Daviess County polling center in 1838, Lee and his fellow Danites stormed into the crowd with clubs flying. “I felt the power of God nerve my arm for the fray,” he later said. Buildings were burned, and Lee later admitted that he had participated in looting."The Aftermath of Mountain Meadows | History | Smithsonian

Danites Mountain Meadows Massacre - Google Search

 

[Daniel Marsh]

...Who have all been openly denounced by those who knew them.

In contrast, getting mainline Christians to apologize for the hatred we as Mormons have experienced at the hands of other mainline Christians is analogous to pulling teeth with a set of over-sized channellock.

If anything, mainline Christians who *do* apologize risk being blasted as "traitors" to the cause of mainline Christianity.

Name Names, and invite them here to tell their side.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hogwash. Christians don't have to apologize; haters do.

LDS - LDS persecution complex

 

[Daniel Marsh]

are you sure your precieved hate from them, is not simply part of LDS persecution complex?

LDS - LDS persecution complex

 

[Rescued One]

Attending a church does NOT make a person a Christian.

MURDER OF LORI HACKING

Lori Kay Soares Hacking (December 31, 1976 – July 19, 2004) was a Salt Lake City, Utah, woman who was killed by her husband, Mark Hacking, in 2004. She was reported missing by her husband, and the search earned national attention before her husband confessed to the crime.
Murder of Lori Hacking - Wikipedia


DISAPPEARANCE OF SUSAN POWELL

Susan Cox married Joshua Powell (b. January 20, 1976) at the Portland Oregon Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in April 2001. In 2004 they moved to Utah to get away from Joshua's predatory father Steven Craig Powell who had a sexual obsession with Susan. They resided in West Valley City, a suburb of Salt Lake City in Utah. Joshua had a bachelor's degree in business and worked for a number of different companies over the years.[2] Susan was a cosmetologist in Washington, and worked in banking after the family's relocation to Utah...

By 2008, Susan was expressing fears and frustrations about her marriage to friends.
She recorded a video in July 2009 and wrote a secret will that included the statements "I want it documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage" and "If I die, it may not be an accident, even if it looks like one."[5]
Disappearance of Susan Powell - Wikipedia

In 2012 Powell killed himself and his two young sons. He shut the door and locked it when the social worker brought the boys from their maternal grandparents for a supervised visit. The social worker was not let in.

Susan's body was never found.


Doctor who drugged his wife, left her to die in bathtub, found dead at Utah prison
In the months before he murdered his wife, Martin Joseph MacNeill told family, his church and friends in Pleasant Grove, Utah, that he was dying from cancer. The doctor, a former Mormon bishop with eight children and a law degree, then rearranged his finances and took trips, ostensibly for medical care.

But he didn’t have cancer. He had a mistress, and a plan to kill his wife.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-dead-at-utah-prison/?utm_term=.a25b1226e39a


MURDER OF YARMILA FALATER
'Sleepwalker' Guilty Of Murder
...From the day he was arrested, Falater never denied killing his wife, Yarmila, never denied stabbing her 44 times that January night in 1997, and never denied drowning her in the family pool, reports CBS News Correspondent Jerry Bowen.
'Sleepwalker' Guilty Of Murder

 

[Jane_Doe]

Attending a church does NOT make a person a Christian.

No, where one's butt sits Sunday morning does not make one a Christian. Having a relationship with Christ does. But will you acknowledge my relationship with Christ-- or is the focus on where my butt sits Sunday morning?

 

[Ironhold]

I have meet many LDS Missionaries make the false claim that they are being persecuted.

"False"?

Did you really just say that?

There are folks who think nothing of, say, siccing their dogs on missionaries or doing other openly violent actions. Did you know that? It happens.

Rather than just blindly dismiss these things, how about actually asking questions to get more information?

 

[Ironhold]

In short, they are taught as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the real truth.

Did you really just say that?

Let me guess: you're going to follow this up by trying to argue that we somehow deserve everything bad that does happen to us, right?

Because that's happened, too. People here on CF have said that.

 

[Ironhold]

The Danites and the Mountain Meadows Massacre comes to mind.

Did you really just say that you believe the whole "Danite" conspiracy?

Gah....

If you want the truth, take a read:

LDS FAQ: The 1838 Mormon War and Tales of the "Danites" - Mormon War in Missouri

The gist of it is that the only real "Danite" group was a militia unit that formed in the 1830s during a period in which the church's settlements were being raided by bandits and armed mobs. The Danites claimed that they were merely chasing these groups back down, but when it was discovered that they were going too far the organization was forcibly broken up by church authorities and the leader of the group was excommunicated.

About 50 or so years later, a guy who had a date with the gallows decided that the best way to get out of it was to lie through his teeth. He filed a false confession claiming that the Danites continued to exist as a personal hit squad and that he had been a member, knowing full well that the federal government was after anything it could get to justify arresting the church leadership and breaking the church apart. The confession has been shown to be false time and time again, but far too many critics of the church refuse to let the facts get in the way of their narrative.


As far as Mountain Meadows goes,

https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Conflict-1850-1859-Norman-Furniss/dp/0300113072

Furniss does something I've not seen a single critic of the church ever do: examine the incident in its full historical context while providing the best research on the matter to date at the time of the writing. If you want to know about the larger Utah War (the situation that led to the group of local militia going rogue) then you'll want to read this book.

...Unless you want somehow argue that Yale University Press is a "Mormon" publishing house, the same excuse someone else here on the forum tried to do to get out of it...

 

[Ironhold]

DISAPPEARANCE OF SUSAN POWELL

Susan Cox married Joshua Powell (b. January 20, 1976) at the Portland Oregon Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in April 2001. In 2004 they moved to Utah to get away from Joshua's predatory father Steven Craig Powell who had a sexual obsession with Susan. They resided in West Valley City, a suburb of Salt Lake City in Utah. Joshua had a bachelor's degree in business and worked for a number of different companies over the years.[2] Susan was a cosmetologist in Washington, and worked in banking after the family's relocation to Utah...

By 2008, Susan was expressing fears and frustrations about her marriage to friends.
She recorded a video in July 2009 and wrote a secret will that included the statements "I want it documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage" and "If I die, it may not be an accident, even if it looks like one."[5]
Disappearance of Susan Powell - Wikipedia

In 2012 Powell killed himself and his two young sons. He shut the door and locked it when the social worker brought the boys from their maternal grandparents for a supervised visit. The social worker was not let in.

Susan's body was never found.

Did you really just bring up this case?

Seriously?

Powell's father was a minister who had an avowed hatred for the church, and he exerted a *lot* of influence over his son, Susan's husband.

When Susan first disappeared, he and his tried to push a conspiracy that Susan had run off to Brazil with a man who was LDS and thus unlike Josh, who had ceased any and all ties to the church by then.

I was active on the Discovery Networks' forums at the time, and spent a fair bit of time talking about the case as it happened on the Investigation Discovery forums. So yeah... I was effectively following this story live as everything happened.

That's how I know that... this incident totally undermines your case by showing an evil mainline Christian minister.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"False"?

Did you really just say that?

....

If people really threaten them with violence, why don't they record it and call the Police?


christians door threats violence recorded - Google Search

"The biggest concern about this interaction is that after talking with other people who have had run ins with Mormons, this: Why are you persecuting me line is a tactic that they employ to get people to shut up and listen. By enacting it, they don’t have to answer questions and have lucid arguments and that cannot be tolerated. If Mormons what to fall into the pale of orthodox Christianity, they they better be able to prove their position. It is our job to call them on this tactic and in gentle and Christian manner." Christianty | School of Fish

Ah, I have meet many LDS Missionaries make the false claim that they are being persecuted --- when confronted with the truth of the real Jesus.

True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True,

From the google for violence against LDS Missionaries, I found this story,
"Provo, Utah (CNN)The horror of rape or sexual assault is traumatizing enough for any victim. But for multiple young women at Brigham Young University, they claim they received backlash, instead of support, after reporting sexual violence to the school."Punished after rape report at Brigham Young University - CNN

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Church unequivocally condemns racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church. In 2006, then Church president Gordon B. Hinckley declared that “no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church. Let us all recognize that each of us is a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven, who loves all of His children.”

There are many quotes here from LDS Collectors Library from the people I am asking about:
Racist Statements from the Mormon Church – LeeBaker.4Mormon.org

no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ - Norton Safe Search

The Mormon Church and Blacks

The Mormon Church and Blacks: A Documentary History
edited by Matthew L Harris, Newell G. Bringhurst

For other sources of racist LDS leaders, go to the above book and use the search on Skin and the other racist words.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I read the Senate Document on the whatever thing that was.

 

[Jane_Doe]

If people really threaten them with violence, why don't they record it and call the Police?


christians door threats violence recorded - Google Search

"The biggest concern about this interaction is that after talking with other people who have had run ins with Mormons, this: Why are you persecuting me line is a tactic that they employ to get people to shut up and listen. By enacting it, they don’t have to answer questions and have lucid arguments and that cannot be tolerated. If Mormons what to fall into the pale of orthodox Christianity, they they better be able to prove their position. It is our job to call them on this tactic and in gentle and Christian manner." Christianty | School of Fish

Ah, I have meet many LDS Missionaries make the false claim that they are being persecuted --- when confronted with the truth of the real Jesus.

True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True,

From the google for violence against LDS Missionaries, I found this story,
"Provo, Utah (CNN)The horror of rape or sexual assault is traumatizing enough for any victim. But for multiple young women at Brigham Young University, they claim they received backlash, instead of support, after reporting sexual violence to the school."Punished after rape report at Brigham Young University - CNN

If you are so interested in Truth, would you care to engage my story I shared on the other thread? Would you be willing to hear my words about my love for my Savior Jesus Christ?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I forgot what thread that is. Did you answer the set of questions that I posted somewhere? I forget where they are.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I forgot what thread that is. Did you answer the set of questions that I posted somewhere? I forget where they are.

Post #3 LDS - LDS persecution complex

 

[Ironhold]

I see no direct response to the links I posted containing Joseph Smith's own words.

 

[Rescued One]

These

No, where one's butt sits Sunday morning does not make one a Christian. Having a relationship with Christ does. But will you acknowledge my relationship with Christ-- or is the focus on where my butt sits Sunday morning?

I said nothing about your church attendnce.

You said, "These 'nonChristains' (as you term it) include many leader of Baptists churches, NonDemon, Calvary Chapel, Born Again Congregations, Evangelical churches etc. I have seen this hatred spewed from those pulpits."

My issue is that you apply the sin of hatred to people who aren't Christians and are speaking from pulpits. However, you haven't given us the hateful quotes or the names of those non-Christians.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I said nothing about your church attendnce.

Are you willing to acknowledge my relationship with Christ?
Or no because of where my butt sits Sunday morning?