God is the Great Architect of Inequality in regards to the Ontology of Salvation ¶ John 6:44, 65

[black.hawk]

Funny man, how did you get that out of what I wrote?
Makes me think your just being contentious here.

The only contention is on your part.

 

[Hieronymus]

Btw, why do you call yourself "Russian bot" if you're situated in the Netherlands? Are you Putin's spokesman?

I'm an online Trump supporter, because he and his team seem to be draining the satanic swamp (deep state and beyond, the power elite society and CIA etcetera).
I hope they will be able to pull it off.
But according to the main stream media that makes me probably a Russian bot.
So it's a bit of satire.

 

[bling]

Paul is a rare example of God's divine intervention, which resulted in his sudden U-turn on the road to Damascus; but I don't believe that God would provide everyone with the same opportunity to be converted.

However, I would welcome any Scriptural evidence to support your view that God would provide the same opportunity for everyone to be converted - Including those who are not Christian.

But all the evidence would seem to suggest that there are indeed few opportunities to know the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the vast majority of those who are born in the Muslim world.

This same would apply to the other major world religions, such as Buddhism and Hinduism etc.

Environmental predispositions are entirely the result of existing opportunities, or the lack of opportunities. Left to their own devices it seems that the vast majority of people are unlikely to ever change their religion, but God's divine intervention is the only thing which is likely to make a difference.

Who determines if a person goes to heaven or hell?
Does God looks at the heart of people in making His call?

 

[black.hawk]

Who determines if a person goes to heaven or hell?

Who else, but God?

Does God looks at the heart of people in making His call?

God looks at the heart in relation to what?

The "heart" simply refers to a person's attitude, but one's attitude does not exist in a void/vacuum; since the attitude is always relative to something real and tangible.

As regarding the Ontology of Salvation, one's attitude is always relative to (1) God and (2) His fellow human. This is clearly mentioned in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31, and Luke 10:27, which is the basis of the new covenant.

Now, Jesus said that (1) is the first commandment, which takes precedence over (2) - Matthew 22:38 and Mark 12:30.

That is, the first commandment (1) is to love God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength - Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, and Luke 10:27 - Which takes priority over the second commandment (2) to love your fellow humans.

But how does one "love" an intangible, invisible God whom you cannot see, nor touch, nor listen to his voice?

By demonstrating one's love towards Jesus Christ Son of God (or God made flesh) who is a tangible and visible being = Romans 10:9.

But to "love Christ" means that one should (a) Confess allegiance with the LORD Jesus and also (b) Believe in his Resurrection - Which taken together is the new covenant of Christ (also, called the Covenant of Salvation) = Romans 10:9 - As it is clearly stated that both (a) and (b) are necessary conditions for any Christian to be SAVED.

Therefore, to "Love Jesus" means to "Honour the Son of God" - Since the word "love" is nuanced, and its various meanings are nuanced by using the same word in the English language; although in the Greek language there are different types of "love", which are ascribed different words.

So, to "Honour Jesus Christ" is the whole point about (a) and (b) in Romans 10:9.

So, by using Romans 10:9, one can make the following inferences:-

(I) The actual numbers who survive the Great Judgement to enter the Kingdom of heaven is exactly the same as the numbers who Believe in the Resurrection of Christ; inasmuch as X numbers will "Honour the Son of God", then the same numbers would be saved to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

(II) So, assuming that all people were to Believe in the Resurrection of Christ - Either, with or without knowledge of the Covenant - then, all people would be saved, and not a single soul should be lost.

(III) But if only one person were to Believe in the Resurrection of Christ, then, only one person would be saved, and the rest of humankind would be damned.

(IV) Or if nobody would believe in the Resurrection of Christ, then not a single person would be saved, and all mankind should be damned.

But, in practice we do not expect the value of X to be extreme as in the case of (II) to (IV), but the value of X should lie somewhere between "All people saved" and "Nobody saved", according to Matthew 7:13, 14, 22:14, which was given to us by God's foreknowledge about future events and the aftermath of Judgement.

However, the real POINT here is that only God can tell you WHAT the Resurrection IS - Since, only God can be the Judge of this matter, but no earthly authority has any right to usurp his Throne, nor usurp the Judgement Seat of Christ.

PS. Whether you believe or not, if the Resurrection of Christ doesn't happen (by account of earthly authorities), then it would be equivalent to the situation of (IV), whereby, nobody at all believed the Resurrection of Christ - AND ALL MANKIND SHOULD BE DAMNED, ACCORDINGLY.

However, God would always honour his promise to respond in whichever manner is most appropriate - As contingent on the value of X, God will Judge (or decide) the actual numbers who are saved to enter the Kingdom of heaven - As each one would be Judged according to his works = 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:13, but if all people are of the same opinion, then all of them would be treated the same, and treated as a "homogeneous group of like minded people", which is equal to X numbers of people.

Ultimately, I am counting on you not to choose the extreme values of X; namely, the would be situation of (IV), which would be tantamount to suicide.

 

[bling]

Who else, but God?


God looks at the heart in relation to what?

The "heart" simply refers to a person's attitude, but one's attitude does not exist in a void/vacuum; since the attitude is always relative to something real and tangible.

As regarding the Ontology of Salvation, one's attitude is always relative to (1) God and (2) His fellow human. This is clearly mentioned in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31, and Luke 10:27, which is the basis of the new covenant.

Now, Jesus said that (1) is the first commandment, which takes precedence over (2) - Matthew 22:38 and Mark 12:30.

That is, the first commandment (1) is to love God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength - Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, and Luke 10:27 - Which takes priority over the second commandment (2) to love your fellow humans.

But how does one "love" an intangible, invisible God whom you cannot see, nor touch, nor listen to his voice?

By demonstrating one's love towards Jesus Christ Son of God (or God made flesh) who is a tangible and visible being.

But to "love Christ" means one should (a) Confess allegiance with the LORD Jesus and also (b) Believe in his Resurrection - Which taken together is the new covenant of Christ (also, called the Covenant of Salvation) = Romans 10:9 - As it is clearly stated that both (a) and (b) are necessary conditions for any Christian to be SAVED.

Therefore, to "Love Jesus" means to "Honour the Son of God" - Since the word "love" is nuanced, and its various meanings are nuanced by using the same word in the English language; although in the Greek language there are different types of "love", which are ascribed different words.

So, to "Honour Jesus Christ" is the whole point about (a) and (b) in Romans 10:9.

So, by using Romans 10:9, one can make the following inferences:-

(I) The actual numbers who survive the Great Judgement to enter the Kingdom of heaven is exactly the same as the numbers who Believe in the Resurrection of Christ; inasmuch as X numbers will "Honour the Son of God", then the same numbers would be saved to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

(II) So, assuming that all people were to Believe in the Resurrection of Christ - Either, with or without knowledge of the Covenant - then, all people would be saved, and not a single soul should be lost.

(III) But if only one person were to Believe in the Resurrection of Christ, then, only one person would be saved, and the rest of humankind would be damned.

(IV) Or if nobody would believe in the Resurrection of Christ, then not a single person would be saved, and all mankind should be damned.

But, in practice we do not expect the value of X to be extreme as in the case of (II) to (IV), but the value of X should lie somewhere between "All people saved" and "Nobody saved", according to Matthew 7:13, 14, 22:14, which was given to us by God's foreknowledge about future events and the aftermath of Judgement.

However, the real POINT here is that only God can tell you WHAT the Resurrection IS - Since, only God can be the Judge of this matter, but no earthly authority has any right to usurp his Throne, nor usurp the Judgement Seat of Christ.

OK you have somewhere between no one and everyone is saved, so how do you know it is not equality by God's standard?

 

[black.hawk]

OK you have somewhere between no one and everyone is saved, so how do you know it is not equality by God's standard?

It all depends on what you mean by "equality".

Equality, in terms of God Judging everybody's good or bad works by using the same standard is only relevant to the Theology of Salvation, or the salvation of human souls by virtue of individual merit (or demerit) = 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:13; but God never created all people "equally" in all other respects.

Since some people are clearly more intelligent, whilst others have more physical strength and stamina etc.

As God never intended that all people should be given 10 talents, but he gave some people more than others, e.g. money, wealth and power, and social honour etc.

Therefore, some people were meant to have more "honour and power and glory" than others, according to the contrast of "honour" and "dishonour", which is clearly highlighted in Romans 9:21 and Galatians 4:22.

Such a contrast (i.e. Social inequality, or social hierarchy) is not "Merely a social construct without God's authority", but Romans 13 clearly states that "All earthly authorities and man made institutions are God ordained", which is irrefutable Scripture for those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That something is a social construct doesn't mean to say that it's not Real, meaningful, and important to everybody who is sane, or reasonably intelligent - e.g. Although a social construct, the Constitutional law, criminal law, property law, business law, human rights law, family law, contractual law, and the law of Tort etc. are (Still) real, meaningful, and important to every society.

Therefore, knowledge about one's place in the social hierarchy, and the hierarchy itself, is a priori; and this is prima facie recognized by people everywhere.

So, no one can pretend that the Social hierarchy is not real, meaningful, and important to everybody who is sane, level headed, and reasonably intelligent.

So, as regarding the Theology of Salvation, God will Judge everybody's sin by using the same standard; but as regarding Social hierarchy, God would never treat everybody the same, nor treat them equally; since the hierarchy is God ordained (¶ Romans 9:21 ¶ Romans 13:1 ¶ Galatians 4:22), so that individuals would always occupy a different place, position, or rank in the social pyramid of humankind.

De facto, it is perfectly possible to have equality in one sense, but inequality in a different sense, and there is no contradiction whatsoever.

 

[black.hawk]

I'm an online Trump supporter, because he and his team seem to be draining the satanic swamp (deep state and beyond, the power elite society and CIA etcetera).
I hope they will be able to pull it off.
But according to the main stream media that makes me probably a Russian bot.
So it's a bit of satire.

Trump supporter?

So, I take it you don't believe in the Resurrection of Christ? ¶ John 11:25-26 ¶ Romans 10:9

 

[black.hawk]

And all that makes very little difference since no one knows with absolute certainty whether or not they're saved anyway.

ANALOGY:-

No one knows with absolute certainty whether or not they will get into Oxford and Cambridge, but the most recent studies have shown that public school boys are 10x more likely to get into Oxbridge by comparison with their State school counterparts.

Are you saying that such differential life chances are not important to society (To you it doesn't seem important that some people would always have a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved)?

 

[Hieronymus]

Trump supporter?

So, I take it you don't believe in the Resurrection of Christ? ¶ John 11:25-26 ¶ Romans 10:9

What does that even have to do with the other??

 

[fhansen]

ANALOGY:-

No one knows with absolute certainty whether or not they will get into Oxford and Cambridge, but the most recent studies have shown that public school boys are 10x more likely to get into Oxbridge by comparison with their State school counterparts.

Are you saying that such differential life chances are not important to society (To you it doesn't seem important that some people would always have a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved)?

No, to me it doesn't seem right-or just-for some to have a better chance to be saved than others. IMO, we're judged base on what we've done with what we've been given, in terms of revelation/knowledge, grace, time, experience, etc. Luke 12:48 as well as the Parable of the Talents fit in here.

 

[Tom 1]

Now, Modern science (e.g. Biological anthropology, Evolutionary psychology, and Human Biology etc) maintains that individuals are both genetically and environmentally predisposed to believe, or not to believe certain doctrines.

Therefore, some people would innately stand a better chance than others to believe, or not to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, based on the aforementioned.

However, we also know that God is the ultimate cause behind the genetic and environmental factors which would predispose people to believe, or not to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 1:3

This implies that God never created people equally in terms of their chances to be saved, or not to be saved. As we know that some people would always stand a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved.

Thus, God is the Great Architect of Inequality in regards to the Ontology of Salvation; since he never created individuals to be exactly identical in terms of their genetic makeup, nor identical in terms of their social environment. John 1:3, 6:44, 6:65

Since individuals would always differ in terms of their genes and their social environment it means that some people would always have a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved.

Thus, we know that human societies were never meant to be a level playing field in terms of the Ontology of Salvation; since individual differences would always entail some people having a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved.

Thus, some people would always have a better chance than others to be saved, or not to be saved; which implies that God has elected only few people to enter the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34), whereas the rest of humankind have been elected for the purpose of destruction (Revelation 13:8); and God decided this long before the world was created (John 6:44, 65).

Discuss.

I think maybe you are reading too much into information that is informative and provides perspective, maybe, but not definitive or prescriptive.

 

[black.hawk]

What does that even have to do with the other??

In retrospect, it's clear that Donald Trump and his CIA entourage have never supported the Resurrection of Christ - Which you know is a key requirement for any Christian to be saved = John 11:25-26 and Romans 10:9.

 

[Danthemailman]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision (John 6:44,65). Unless the Father draws us in and enables us/granted to him by the Father, we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ either, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

 

[black.hawk]

I think maybe you are reading too much into information that is informative and provides perspective, maybe, but not definitive or prescriptive.

But isn't Scripture meant to be definitive or prescriptive?

Granted that all Christians will accept that the Bible is God's word.

 

[Hieronymus]

In retrospect, it's clear that Donald Trump and his CIA

"his CIA"?

entourage have never supported the Resurrection of Christ

But what does this have to do with what? and what's your source?

- Which you know is a key requirement for any Christian to be saved = John 11:25-26 and Romans 10:9.

Why do you think i support Trump at all?
I already wrote why actually...

 

[Tom 1]

But isn't Scripture meant to be definitive or prescriptive?

Granted that all Christians will accept that the Bible is God's word.

Depends, some passages are direct and unambiguous, some aren’t. Some have self evident meaning in their own context, some can only really be understood within the context of an overall biblical theme and all relevant, related passages, some parts of the bible, or really most of it, can only be properly understood by placing them first in the context of the time they were written and the people they were written to.

 

[Tom 1]

Now, the psychological definition of one's personality includes the propensity to believe, or not to believe certain doctrines, such as the Gospel of Jesus Christ

I think that’s kind of an oversimplification. Psychology is not a hard science.

 

[black.hawk]

"his CIA"?

But, surely you must understand that the CIA are part of the President's entourage, since he is always surrounded and protected by the Secret Service - Who can also be his front line soldiers, which Trump will use to project his influence to all 4 corners of the globe?

The term "CIA" could also refer to cognate organizations such as MI5/MI6 etc, who work closely with their allies in the Pentagon and the National Security Agency etc.

But what does this have to do with what? and what's your source?

My source is based on prior experience of having been approached, harassed, and persecuted by MI5/MI6 who claimed to have been "working for the CIA".

Why do you think i support Trump at all?
I already wrote why actually...

But I'm simply going by what you said.

Besides, people don't always give truthful answers, especially if they are undercover secret agents who've been assigned by the NSA or White House etc.

By definition, the identity of such field operatives is usually a State secret, and they won't disclose who they are unless they want to.

 

[Hieronymus]

But, surely you must understand that the CIA are part of the President's entourage, since he is always surrounded and protected by the Secret Service - Who can also be his front line soldiers, which Trump will use to project his influence to all 4 corners of the globe?

I think you're not aware what's going on right now.

 

[black.hawk]

I think you're not aware what's going on right now.

You mean the recent mass shooting in Florida?