The Father Of (Partial Preterism) A Catholic Jesuit "Luis De Alcasar" (1554-1613)

BABerean2

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The Whole Chapter Is Devoted To The Second Advent.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.


Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


Luk 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
Luk 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?


Only the blinders of Jesuit Futurism allow a person to deny the reality of what occurred during 70 AD...

.
 
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Truth7t7

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as far as ORIGINS of various eschatologies; you have opponents of pre-trib saying it was from Margaret Macdonald's vision (which if you read through it -- is NOT pre-trib), and out the other side of their mouth, saying Manuel De Lacunza's book is where Darby "got his stuff" from -- thing is -- I read through Lacunza's book years ago and it is VASTLY DIFFERENT from what Darby proposed -- a 45 day tribulation period rather than 7 year trib; it is not the same eschatology AT ALL

as far as the claims that BOTH preterism and Futurism came from the counter-reformation -- that is surely false in the area of FUTURISM - for it was the view of the early church before Augustine...

Known as CHILIASM, the ecf were pre-millennial though not pre-trib; so FUTURISM has been around from earliest times of the church, and was not "invented by Jesuits to 'get the Pope off the hook' of being pegged as the AntiChrist"
The ECF'S Believed And Taught The Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom Started At the Second Advent.

I Don't Believe They Saw A Literal 1000 Year Kingdom On This Physical Earth.
 
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Truth7t7

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sure they did -- that's what CHILIASM was!
I Disagree, Appears Hippo Saw The Second Advent, Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom Below.

HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME 170-235AD

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST.

5) But as time now presses for the consideration of the question immediately in hand, and as what has been already said in the introduction with regard to the glory of God, may suffice, it is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that implores one shall be revealed; and whence and from what I tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in the Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed froth heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire.

Truth7t7: Justin Martyr Saw The Second Advent, Final Judgement.


Justin Martyr 100-165AD Dialogue With Trypho The Jew

CHAPTER XXXI -- IF CHRIST'S POWER BE NOW SO GREAT, HOW MUCH GREATER AT THE SECOND ADVENT!

"But if so great a power is shown to have followed and to be still following the dispensation of His suffering, how great shall that be which shall follow His glorious advent! For He shall come on the clouds as the Son of man, so Daniel foretold, and His angels shall come with Him. These are the words: 'I beheld till the thrones were set; and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like a fiery flame, His wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. Thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The books were opened, and the judgment was set. I beheld then the voice of the great words which the horn speaks: and the beast was beat down, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Truth7t7: Iranaeus Saw "THe Final Judgment" also, the Lake Of Fire.

Iranaeus 130-202AD, Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 30, PGH 4

For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition," as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

 
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Hank77

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Your Problem Is This Is The Second Advent That You Deny Is Seen, To Make Your Interpretation Work Falsely.

The Whole Chapter Is Devoted To The Second Advent.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
As per verse 20, who is fleeing to the mountains and
why would it be bad for that flight to take place on the sabbath?
 
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Truth7t7

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As per verse 20, who is fleeing to the mountains and
why would it be bad for that flight to take place on the sabbath?

When Did Jesus Christ Return In The Clouds Of Heaven, As Human Eyes Were Watching In 70AD?

Did Josephus Record This Event, No Because The Second Advent, Great Tribulation, Abomination Of Desolation, And Antichrist, Are All Future Events, Tied Together "Inseparable"

Will You Next Try To Convince Me That The Waters In The Atlantic And Pacific Oceans Don't Contain "Salt"?

Matthew 24:15-31

Verse 15 Causes Verses 16-21 To Take Place, The Antichrist, Causes The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation. After This Great Tribulation Jesus Christ Return Immediately In The Clouds. "Simple"!

You Deny The Second Advent Is Seen In Verse 29-30 To Keep You "Preterist" Of 66-70AD Fulfillment Alive.

Any Human Breathing Can Clearly See The Second Advent In Verses 29-30

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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GingerBeer

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Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!
One gets the impression that merely mentioning "Roman Catholic Priest" makes the view wicked and wrong - is that what is intended by the statement in the quote above?
 
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dqhall

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One thing is a fact, Verse 15 below causes verses16-21 to take place, as those that "SEE" the abomination of desolation flee to the mountains.

Verse 21 in the "Great Tribulation" is caused once again by verse 15.

Verse 29 "immediately follows verse 21's completion.

Yep all the verses listed below are tied together "Inseparable" by the time stamp.

Matthew 24:15-31 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Tribulations are occurring to this day. It was not as if they ended with the end of the Jewish uprising and destruction of the temple. Nor could one say that the revolt of 66-70 AD described by the historian Josephus was no real tribulation at all. There are yet corpses found after bloody battles and murders. Such tribulations have not ceased.

Matthew 24:6 "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aren't troubled, for all this must happen, but the end is not yet."

Tribulation is not the sign of the end. The second coming of Christ is the sign of the end. It is not that Christ has nothing to do in this world today either. God is doing works that sinners cannot comprehend.
 
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Hank77

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When Did Jesus Christ Return In The Clouds Of Heaven, As Human Eyes Were Watching In 70AD?

Did Josephus Record This Event, No Because The Second Advent, Great Tribulation, Abomination Of Desolation, And Antichrist, Are All Future Events, Tied Together "Inseparable"

Will You Next Try To Convince Me That The Waters In The Atlantic And Pacific Oceans Don't Contain "Salt"?

Matthew 24:15-31

Verse 15 Causes Verses 16-21 To Take Place, The Antichrist, Causes The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation. After This Great Tribulation Jesus Christ Return Immediately In The Clouds. "Simple"!

You Deny The Second Advent Is Seen In Verse 29-30 To Keep You "Preterist" Of 66-70AD Fulfillment Alive.

Any Human Breathing Can Clearly See The Second Advent In Verses 29-30

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So you can't answer my simple question? OK

Where in Matt 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21 does it say "All eyes shall see Him?"

If I say, I see what you are saying, did I see it with my eyes?
I saw God in the face of my new born child. I see God in nature.

So what did they see, the power and great glory, Luke clearly tells us that these are the days of Vengeance. They see His power and glory coming in judgment on them. It's common prophetic language. Jesus had warned them, see post #21. Also...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
 
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dqhall

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So you can't answer my simple question? OK

Where in Matt 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21 does it say "All eyes shall see Him?"

If I say, I see what you are saying, did I see it with my eyes?
I saw God in the face of my new born child. I see God in nature.

So what did they see, the power and great glory, Luke clearly tells us that these are the days of Vengeance. They see His power and glory coming in judgment on them. It's common prophetic language. Jesus had warned them, see post #21. Also...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
The Jews revolted against Rome in 66 AD. The Roman General Vespasian was sent to put down the rebellion. Nero was emperor at that time. After losing a battle, the Jewish General Flavius Josephus surrendered to the Romans and predicted Vespasian would be made emperor. He sat in jail until after Vespasian was made emperor, then he was freed. Josephus wrote a history of the Jewish revolt that is with us to this day.

There was a time when Roman troops were starting to set up camp on the outskirts of Jerusalem. Before the city was entirely encompassed with siege works, some people fled. Most of those who remained in the city did not survive the siege. Many citizens of Jerusalem starved to death or were killed in the war. In 70 AD the temple was toppled. Not one stone was left on another stone. The city was burned.

Matthew 24:1 (WEB) Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way. His disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, "You see all of these things, don't you? Most certainly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone on another, that will not be thrown down."

If you go to the temple mount you will not see the the temple. There is a mosque that was built long after the destruction of the temple Jesus had described to his disciples as they were talking about its magnificent masonry. The western wall/wailing wall of the temple mount is a retaining wall that was used to build a platform for the temple. It was not a wall of the temple. This prophesy about the temple being torn down was fulfilled during the reign of emperor Vespasian. It is one prophesy that was fulfilled in the past.
 
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Light of the East

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Truth7t7: The False Teaching Of (Partial Preterism) From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcazar 1554-1613) During The Counter Reformation.

Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!

Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


Matthew 12:33KJV
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.


Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (Ludovicus ab Alcasar, Louis of Alcazar) (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.

He is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy, in commentary on the Book of Revelation; his work is regarded as the first major application of the method of interpretation of prophecy by reading in terms of the author's contemporary concerns.[5] His view was that everything in the Apocalypse, apart from the three final chapters, refers to events that already have come to pass.
Wikipedia: Preterism

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.


Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.

Jesus Christ Is The Lord!

Truth7t7

Okay.....but you didn't identify what you believe is the correct eschatology.
 
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Light of the East

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I Disagree, Appears Hippo Saw The Second Advent, Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom Below.

HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME 170-235AD

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST.

5) But as time now presses for the consideration of the question immediately in hand, and as what has been already said in the introduction with regard to the glory of God, may suffice, it is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that implores one shall be revealed; and whence and from what I tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in the Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed froth heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire.

Truth7t7: Justin Martyr Saw The Second Advent, Final Judgement.


Justin Martyr 100-165AD Dialogue With Trypho The Jew


CHAPTER XXXI -- IF CHRIST'S POWER BE NOW SO GREAT, HOW MUCH GREATER AT THE SECOND ADVENT!

"But if so great a power is shown to have followed and to be still following the dispensation of His suffering, how great shall that be which shall follow His glorious advent! For He shall come on the clouds as the Son of man, so Daniel foretold, and His angels shall come with Him. These are the words: 'I beheld till the thrones were set; and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like a fiery flame, His wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. Thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The books were opened, and the judgment was set. I beheld then the voice of the great words which the horn speaks: and the beast was beat down, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Truth7t7: Iranaeus Saw "THe Final Judgment" also, the Lake Of Fire.

Iranaeus 130-202AD, Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 30, PGH 4

For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition," as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."


I am sitting here laughing myself silly!!! You try to destroy the Preterist view using the idea that Catholics cannot possibly know the truth, then when challenged, turn around and quote Catholic Early Fathers!!!!

You are...........hilarious!!!!
 
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fhansen

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Truth7t7: The False Teaching Of (Partial Preterism) From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcazar 1554-1613) During The Counter Reformation.

Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!

Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


Matthew 12:33KJV
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.


Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (Ludovicus ab Alcasar, Louis of Alcazar) (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.

He is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy, in commentary on the Book of Revelation; his work is regarded as the first major application of the method of interpretation of prophecy by reading in terms of the author's contemporary concerns.[5] His view was that everything in the Apocalypse, apart from the three final chapters, refers to events that already have come to pass.
Wikipedia: Preterism

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.


Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.

Jesus Christ Is The Lord!

Truth7t7
Although I agree with much of Louis of Alcazar's thoughts here, this isn't official Catholic doctrine. As to eschatology the CC only teaches that there will be no 1000 year earthly reign (millenarianism, millennialism, chiliasm):
676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.
 
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Ronald

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I think your line of reasoning is thus:

Preterism was developed by a Catholic
A Catholic cannot be right.
Ergo, preterism is false.

Is that about it?
I don't think he is, he's just saying that one is.
On the flip side, won't you agree that a Catholic can be wrong? If not, you don't know much about the Bible.
Remember, we are all sinners, we all make mistakes, especially in the area of eschatology.
There are a half dozen views of Revelation and we all think ours is right. Either one is right and the others wrong, they could all be wrong, or some views may have part of it figured out, and part of it wrong too.
Catholics and Protestants are brothers and sisters, we all believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures and that He ascended, is God in the flesh (with the exception of some sects not believing in the Trinity), and also share the majority of essential doctrines in common.
The future is written but we just don't have it all figured out. God did that purposely. Revelation cannot be read in a chronological order, it doesn't work that way, which is why it is so confusing. But making it into some symbolic allegory is the same as adding to it - which we are warned against.
A Great Tribulation will affect the entire world, not just a small town in the past attacked by one empire. Many nations come against Israel, as a matter of fact ALL nations come against her during this time. Jesus will literally appear as the two angels claimed He would return in like manner as He ascended in to Heaven. Did He return in 70 A.D. and set up His Kingdom? Did He judge the world, banish sin, Satan and His demonic horde? Not yet. What of Paradise reborn, do we have a promise of that?
God did not intend man to suffer in a sinful world for eons without end. His plan was finite for this world as we know it and eternal for us. Good and evil have been woven through the fabric of history for His purpose. We know evil and therefore, we appreciate more the attributes of God, His goodness, mercy and forgiveness - we wouldn't know good otherwise. They are watching growing towards the precipice and will soon be separated.
Redemption draws near, it's at the door.
.
 
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Truth7t7

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One gets the impression that merely mentioning "Roman Catholic Priest" makes the view wicked and wrong - is that what is intended by the statement in the quote above?
"Luis De Alcasar" Was A Jesuit Priest, A Dark Evil Order As My Study Finds, I Won't Continue In Response To Roman Catholocism, And The Jesuit Order, The Inquisition, Etc.

Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction

The following is the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction given to high ranking Jesuits only. This oath is taken from the book Subterranean Rome by Carlos Didier, translated from the French, and published in New York in 1843.

"When a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command, he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order, where there are only three others present, the principal or Superior standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow and white, which are the Papal colors, and the other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above a skull and crossbones, with the word INRI, and below them the words IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS. The meaning of which is: It is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers. Upon the floor is a red cross at which the postulant or candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart, the Superior still holding it by the hilt, and thus addresses the postulant:"

Superior:

My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant, and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope.

You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means.

You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death.

You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labors with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved." Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me---

The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits:

"1, _ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ's Vice-regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness' right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to any of the laws, magistrates or officers.

I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.

I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness' agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants or Liberals' doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise.

I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church's interest, to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they may entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant.

I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.

I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!

All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant."

(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)

Superior:

"You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank.

In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one cross his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the center of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the center of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges. The other answers Impious." (The meaning of which has already been explained.) "The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers:

Question —From whither do you come? Answer — The Holy faith.

Q. —Whom do you serve?

A. —The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world.

Q. —Who commands you?

A. —The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.

Q. —Who received you? A. —A venerable man in white hair.

Q. —How?

A. —With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order.

Q. —Did you take an oath?

A. —I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, sex nor condition. To be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation of murmuring.

Q. —Will you do that? A. —I will.

Q. —How do you travel? A. —In the bark of Peter the fisherman.

Q. —Whither do you travel? A. —To the four quarters of the globe. Q. —For what purpose?

A. —To obey the orders of my general and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfill the conditions of my oaths.

Q. —Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated."
 
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Truth7t7

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Tribulations are occurring to this day. It was not as if they ended with the end of the Jewish uprising and destruction of the temple. Nor could one say that the revolt of 66-70 AD described by the historian Josephus was no real tribulation at all. There are yet corpses found after bloody battles and murders. Such tribulations have not ceased.

Matthew 24:6 "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aren't troubled, for all this must happen, but the end is not yet."

Tribulation is not the sign of the end. The second coming of Christ is the sign of the end. It is not that Christ has nothing to do in this world today either. God is doing works that sinners cannot comprehend.
You Completely Ignored The Claims In The Post.

You Can't Have A 66-70AD Great Tribulation Seen In Verse 21 Below, And A Second Advent Of Jesus Christ In Verse 29 Taking Place "Immediately After This Tribulation Of "Those Days"

The Abomination Of Desolation Verse 15, The Great Tribulation" Verse 21, And The "Second Advent" Verse 29-30 Are Future And Have Not Been Fulfilled.

You Can Try To Sell Ice In The North Pole, But I Ain't Gonna Buy Any.

Matthew 24:15-31 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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Truth7t7

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So you can't answer my simple question? OK

Where in Matt 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21 does it say "All eyes shall see Him?"

If I say, I see what you are saying, did I see it with my eyes?
I saw God in the face of my new born child. I see God in nature.

So what did they see, the power and great glory, Luke clearly tells us that these are the days of Vengeance. They see His power and glory coming in judgment on them. It's common prophetic language. Jesus had warned them, see post #21. Also...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

A Literal Great Tribulation, A Literal Eath, Literal Human Eyes.

No Hank This Event Isn't Symbolic Of Jesus Coming In The Birth Of A New Born, Sorry.

Future Events, Tied Together By The Time Stamp "Those Days"!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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Truth7t7

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Okay.....but you didn't identify what you believe is the correct eschatology.
I Believe There Will Be A Future Literal Human Man Of Jewish Decent That Will Be The Antichrist Of Daniel 9:27, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

I Believe He Will Cause The Future Abomination Of Desolation In Jerusalem Daniel 9:27

I Believe There Will Be 42 Months/1260 Days In A Future Tribulation And Fulfilling Of The Gentiles, With Literal Prophets Returned "Two Witnesses" Revelation 11:1-15

I Believe Jesus Christ Will Return In Fire And Final Judgment "Immediately" After The Tribulation, Matthew 24:29-31, Luke 17:29-30, Micah 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, 1 Corinthians 3:13

Eternity Begins!
 
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Hank77

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No Hank This Event Isn't Symbolic Of Jesus Coming In The Birth Of A New Born, Sorry.
No, it is Him coming in judgement on the ones who turned against Him and delivered Him up to the Romans, demanding His death.
 
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I am sitting here laughing myself silly!!! You try to destroy the Preterist view using the idea that Catholics cannot possibly know the truth, then when challenged, turn around and quote Catholic Early Fathers!!!!

You are...........hilarious!!!!
I Don't Believe Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD Were "Roman Catholic"

The Emperors Were The Rulers Of The Day, And There Was No "Roman Catholic Church" Headed By A Pope.

Your Claims Are False, And We Can Both Laugh Together.
 
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