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Featured The Father Of (Partial Preterism) A Catholic Jesuit "Luis De Alcasar" (1554-1613)

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Truth7t7: The False Teaching Of (Partial Preterism) From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcazar 1554-1613) During The Counter Reformation.

    Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!

    Matthew 7:18KJV
    A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


    Matthew 12:33KJV
    Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.


    Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (Ludovicus ab Alcasar, Louis of Alcazar) (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.

    He is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy, in commentary on the Book of Revelation; his work is regarded as the first major application of the method of interpretation of prophecy by reading in terms of the author's contemporary concerns.[5] His view was that everything in the Apocalypse, apart from the three final chapters, refers to events that already have come to pass.
    Wikipedia: Preterism

    Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

    The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

    Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.


    Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.

    Jesus Christ Is The Lord!

    Truth7t7
     
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  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Reformed Catholic, Puritan Supporter

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    Iterist (Eclectic) view is correct.
     
  3. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe what pastors such as Gill, Henry, Clarke, and many others taught about Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 in regards to 70 AD. Seeing none them were regarded heretics I'm not worried about the criticism from modern rapture dispensationalists.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    And the second tactic employed by the Jesuits during the counter-reformation was Ribera's form of Futurism.

    I wonder who would be promoting that doctrine??

    When navigating the road of Bible prophecy we have extreme Preterism as the ditch on one side of the road and extreme Futurism as the ditch on the opposite side.


    Francisco Ribera - Wikipedia

    The Jesuit Lie of Futurism:



    .
     
  5. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    I don't believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, Or A 1000 Year Kingdom On This Earth.

    One Thing I Do Know Matthew 24:15-31, Daniels Abomination Of Desolation, The Great Tribulation, And Second Advent Are All Future, And Unfulfilled.

    You Can't Have A "Great Tribulation" In 66-70AD, And Immediately After This Tribulation A Second Advent Of Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 24:15-31 King James Version (KJV)
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    25 Behold, I have told you before.
    26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  6. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    One thing is a fact, Verse 15 below causes verses16-21 to take place, as those that "SEE" the abomination of desolation flee to the mountains.

    Verse 21 in the "Great Tribulation" is caused once again by verse 15.

    Verse 29 "immediately follows verse 21's completion.

    Yep all the verses listed below are tied together "Inseparable" by the time stamp.

    Matthew 24:15-31 King James Version (KJV)
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    25 Behold, I have told you before.
    26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
     
  7. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think your line of reasoning is thus:

    Preterism was developed by a Catholic
    A Catholic cannot be right.
    Ergo, preterism is false.

    Is that about it?
     
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  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    31 And he shall send his angels [messengers] with a great sound of a trumpet [the Gospel], and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    [messengers][the Gospel] emphasis mine
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you think women eating their own children during 70 AD was, "Minor Tribulation"?

    Why do you ignore all of the other references to the Church going through "tribulation"?

    Why?


    Rev_1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Because you have only abandoned part of Jesuit Futurism...

    .
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us The poster formerly known as Habakkuk3

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    ya, thaz abowt it, chevy...

    Dilly Dilly !!

    Unfortunately, that is a common tactic among Protestants who vary on an issue --
    paint your opponent's view as having its origin not just from a Catholic -- but from a JESUIT!!

    You know, like say Darby got his pre-trib views from a demon-possessed young girl;
    then top that by saying he got it from Manuel De LaCunza

    on and on
     
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  11. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who is to flee to the mountains?
    Why would it be bad for the flight to be on the sabbath?
     
  12. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I completely agree. But if none of it is referring to the Second Advent it all makes perfect sense.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on thousands of pages of commentaries and sermons written during the time of the Revolutionary War, no American preacher taught the doctrine during that time.

    It would not be found here until the time of the Civil War, when Darby showed up with his Two Peoples of God doctrine.

    Darby's greatest contribution to the doctrine was to divide scripture into that for the Church and that for Israel.


    What do we find in the historical written record in the links below?



    Genesis of Dispensational Theology



    PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
    with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
    F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
    http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


    Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
    PDF Files


    Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

    .
     
  14. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow! you pegged that one. Well, I have yet to see here in this discussion anything about the 'demon-possessed girl'.
     
  15. Anto9us

    Anto9us The poster formerly known as Habakkuk3

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    in one of BABerean2's links -- that of Tim Warner's article -- Margaret Macdonald & her visions are discussed; some thought her inspired, some thought her demon-posessed...

    I don't necessarily buy all the "origin theories" of various eschatologies.
     
  16. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Preterism Was Invented By "Luis De Alcasar" A Jesuit Priest, From The Order Of Ignatius Loyola, The Preterist Teaching Was To Counter The Reformers, And Their Claims The Pope Was The "Antichrist"

    If You Have A 66-70AD Fulfillment Of The "Antichrist" Then You Remove The Pope As The Evil Guy.

    Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.

    Wikipedia: Ignatius Loyola 1491-1556AD

    The Jesuit order served the Pope as missionaries, and they were bound by a vow of special obedience to the sovereign pontiff in regard to the missions. They therefore emerged as an important force during the time of the Counter-Reformation.

    Ignatius, along with the help of his personal secretary Juan Alfonso de Polanco wrote the Jesuit Constitutions, adopted in 1553. It created a centralized organization for the order, and stressed absolute self-denial and obedience to the Pope and to superiors in the Church hierarchy, using the motto perinde ac cadaver – "as if a dead body", i.e. that the good Jesuit should be as well-disciplined as a corpse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  17. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you have proved my point about the logic being used here. Thanks.
     
  18. Anto9us

    Anto9us The poster formerly known as Habakkuk3

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    as far as ORIGINS of various eschatologies; you have opponents of pre-trib saying it was from Margaret Macdonald's vision (which if you read through it -- is NOT pre-trib), and out the other side of their mouth, saying Manuel De Lacunza's book is where Darby "got his stuff" from -- thing is -- I read through Lacunza's book years ago and it is VASTLY DIFFERENT from what Darby proposed -- a 45 day tribulation period rather than 7 year trib; it is not the same eschatology AT ALL

    as far as the claims that BOTH preterism and Futurism came from the counter-reformation -- that is surely false in the area of FUTURISM - for it was the view of the early church before Augustine...

    Known as CHILIASM, the ecf were pre-millennial though not pre-trib; so FUTURISM has been around from earliest times of the church, and was not "invented by Jesuits to 'get the Pope off the hook' of being pegged as the AntiChrist"
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    I Disagree, Verses 29-31 Depict The Future Second Advent, Resurrection, End Of This World.

    Matthew 24:29-31
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
     
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Your Problem Is This Is The Second Advent That You Deny Is Seen, To Make Your Interpretation Work Falsely.

    The Whole Chapter Is Devoted To The Second Advent.

    Matthew 24:29-31
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
     
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