LDS Joseph Smith Started a False Religion

[Jane_Doe]

(just clarifying LDS beliefs)

We are spirit in the tent of a human body. The body, other than adam and eve, is by biology. The spirit formed by God.

LDS 100% agree with this.

There is no teaching that we (our spirits)were formed outside the womb.

LDS point to Jeremiah 1:5 as being an example of this: the Lord knew Joshua before he was in the womb. I'm aware that other Christian groups have different interpretations of this (such is the diversity of beliefs in Christendom), I'm just explain LDS ones.

At the resurrection we get new bodies not of the dust off the earth. As flesh and blood can't inherit eternality. As dwelling in a everlasting kingdom that can't be destroyed.

Amen.

 

[Peter1000]

We are spirit in the tent of a human body. The body, other than adam and eve, is by biology. The spirit formed by God. There is no teaching that we (our spirits)were formed outside the womb. Jesus would be the only exception as the Son that was, His Spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him as Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person,

Our spirits did not preexist our body.

At the resurrection we get new bodies not of the dust off the earth. As flesh and blood can't inherit eternality. As dwelling in a everlasting kingdom that can't be destroyed.

The New Jerusalem is the end result dwelling place for the children of God.

First: When the Lord formed the human spirit within a person, what happens to that spirit after you die?

Second: When Jesus was resurrected, what was his body made of if it was not made of flesh and bone? Remember he reached out his hands and his apostles were able to touch the wounds in his hands and feet and side. What was he made of?

 

[mmksparbud]

Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Ironhold]

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The problem with citing John 4:24 is that the rendering of this verse is *not* standard across translations.

For example, the RSV and those translations descended from it render the verse as "God is Spirit", dropping the "a" entirely and preventing the literal reading so many critics of the church keep using.

 

[mmksparbud]

New International Version
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

New Living Translation
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."

English Standard Version
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Berean Study Bible
God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Berean Literal Bible
God is Spirit, and it behooves those worshiping Him to worship in spirit and truth."

New American Standard Bible
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

King James Bible
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

International Standard Version
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

NET Bible
God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

New Heart English Bible
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For The Spirit is God, and it is fitting that those who worship him worship in The Spirit and in The Truth.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

New American Standard 1977
“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
God is a Spirit and those that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

King James 2000 Bible
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

American King James Version
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

American Standard Version
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.

Darby Bible Translation
God [is] a spirit; and they who worship him must worship [him] in spirit and truth.

English Revised Version
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him, must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Weymouth New Testament
God is Spirit; and those who worship Him must bring Him true spiritual worship."

World English Bible
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Young's Literal Translation

God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'


God is spirit---God is a spirit---what does it matter?? He is still spirit!

 

[Jane_Doe]

God is spirit---God is a spirit---what does it matter?? He is still spirit!

Is Christ God?

Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

 

[mmksparbud]

He is God the Son.

 

[Jane_Doe]

He is God the Son.

And has a body.

 

[mmksparbud]

And has a body.

That is only the Son---The Father was never human, never became one. The Son became human and retains His humanity after the resurrection and has a glorified human body as we will have. He retains His divinity, but the Father has no humanity. JS was horribly, horribly wrong. God the Father never became God----He always was God, The Sin always was God, did not become divine, He always was, as was God the Father. The Son became human without loosing His divinity, but He still retains his humanity. If JS had been a true prophet, he would have known that. Satan has always tried to degrade God, from the very beginning. His first lie was "You will not surely die." He called God a liar right there. You've been shown the verse, many times, that states God is not a man that He should lie. Satan always tries to misrepresent who and what God is. Jesus says God is spirit--that is enough. He should know. And absolutely nobody knows what that means---certainly and obviously, not JS.

 

[Randy777]

First: When the Lord formed the human spirit within a person, what happens to that spirit after you die?

Second: When Jesus was resurrected, what was his body made of if it was not made of flesh and bone? Remember he reached out his hands and his apostles were able to touch the wounds in his hands and feet and side. What was he made of?

What happens to our spirit after we die is up to Jesus. If we are His like Stephen we can state lord into your hands I commit my spirit. Forming the spirit within is corporate that is applies to mankind. Jeremiah was not corporate but just him as in you were in my plans before you were born or I already had you in mind before I made you. It’s not a statement or teaching that we preexisted our body. There is no such teaching in the NT. There was great importance to show jesus of Nazareth had risen from the dead. No such importance lies with us. We will be given new bodies and those left alive will be caught up to the lord and also clothed with immortality. I believe in Jesus’s bodily resurrection.

 

[Jane_Doe]

That is only the Son---The Father was never human, never became one. The Son became human and retains His humanity after the resurrection and has a glorified human body as we will have. He retains His divinity, but the Father has no humanity. JS was horribly, horribly wrong. God the Father never became God----He always was God, The Sin always was God, did not become divine, He always was, as was God the Father. The Son became human without loosing His divinity, but He still retains his humanity. If JS had been a true prophet, he would have known that. Satan has always tried to degrade God, from the very beginning. His first lie was "You will not surely die." He called God a liar right there. You've been shown the verse, many times, that states God is not a man that He should lie. Satan always tries to misrepresent who and what God is. Jesus says God is spirit--that is enough. He should know. And absolutely nobody knows what that means---certainly and obviously, not JS.

I'm not here to argue with you.

I just get tired of conversation where a creedal Christian says "God is a spirit!" citing one verse, and seemingly denying Christ's divinity and the fact He has a body. I find it to be completely self-defeating of that position.

Again, I'm not going to argue with you about this-- that's pointless.

 

[withwonderingawe]

“Chapter 19: Eternal Life,” Doctrines of the Gospel Teacher Manual (), 67–69
Those who make their calling and election sure inherit eternal life.
Chapter 19: Eternal Life

• “After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, ‘Son, thou shalt be exalted.’ When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure” (Smith, Teachings, 150).

• “The elect of God comprise a very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the portion of church members who are striving with all their hearts to keep the fulness of the gospel law in this life so that they can become inheritors of the fulness of gospel rewards in the life to come” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 217).
  Chapter 19: Eternal Life

Mormons who claim they are saved by faith without works are speaking of immortality and they don't want non-members to know that they get immortality whether Mormon or non-Mormon. But guess what --- they don't have eternal life unless they earn it.

Don't want people to know? That's an odd statement.

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm not here to argue with you.

I just get tired of conversation where a creedal Christian says "God is a spirit!" citing one verse, and seemingly denying Christ's divinity and the fact He has a body. I find it to be completely self-defeating of that position.

Again, I'm not going to argue with you about this-- that's pointless.

It's ridiculous to state that Christians deny Christ's divinity, I know of no Christian who states that! The discussion was not about Jesus the Son, but about God the Father and the statement that Jesus said God is spirit. You wish to ignore a verse where Jesus states a truth about His Father and choose to believe what JS has to say about it instead, go right ahead, But don't expect everyone else to. It is not an argument. You state your views, I will state mine. I have the same rights as you to stand up for what I believe the bible says. It's pointless as far as you're concerned perhaps---but there are others who are mislead about this and they need to understand both sides of this. You steed your reasons for your believes, we will state ours. It is our duty as Christians to state what the bible says, not what a man says.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It's ridiculous to state that Christians deny Christ's divinity, I know of no Christian who states that!

I didn't say that. I said:
"I just get tired of conversation where a creedal Christian says "God is a spirit!" citing one verse, and seemingly denying Christ's divinity and the fact He has a body. I find it to be completely self-defeating of that position."

 

[mmksparbud]

I didn't say that. I said:
"I just get tired of conversation where a creedal Christian says "God is a spirit!" citing one verse, and seemingly denying Christ's divinity and the fact He has a body. I find it to be completely self-defeating of that position."

Just going by what you said---
"Seemingly" still "seems" to imply that there are Christians who do so.

There are many Christians who do accept the fact that Christ did retain His humanity upon His resurrection. That was part of the price He paid for our salvation. After His resurrection He:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

God was still flesh and bones, but retained His divinity. He had a glorified human body. We do not know what that body can do as He also appeared to the disciples through a locked room. He retained His humanity---again, the discussion was not about Jesus, but about His Father---and He, indeed, does not have flesh and bones for Jesus did say that God is spirit. And then He says that spirits do not have flesh and bones. It's is not any Christians fault that you do not like those 2 verses.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Just going by what you said---
"Seemingly" still "seems" to imply that there are Christians who do so.

There are many Christians who do accept the fact that Christ did retain His humanity upon His resurrection. That was part of the price He paid for our salvation. After His resurrection He:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

God was still flesh and bones, but retained His divinity. He had a glorified human body. We do not know what that body can do as He also appeared to the disciples through a locked room. He retained His humanity---again, the discussion was not about Jesus, but about His Father---and He, indeed, does not have flesh and bones for Jesus did say that God is spirit. And then He says that spirits do not have flesh and bones. It's is not any Christians fault that you do not like those 2 verses.

Obviously Christians acknowledge and celebrate Christ divinity and His resurrection, including me. Highlighting those facts and Luk_24:39 was the very reason I quoted it in post 266.

 

[Peter1000]

Just going by what you said---
"Seemingly" still "seems" to imply that there are Christians who do so.

There are many Christians who do accept the fact that Christ did retain His humanity upon His resurrection. That was part of the price He paid for our salvation. After His resurrection He:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

God was still flesh and bones, but retained His divinity. He had a glorified human body. We do not know what that body can do as He also appeared to the disciples through a locked room. He retained His humanity---again, the discussion was not about Jesus, but about His Father---and He, indeed, does not have flesh and bones for Jesus did say that God is spirit. And then He says that spirits do not have flesh and bones. It's is not any Christians fault that you do not like those 2 verses.

When I learned this verse in Luke, I knew, by definition that God the Father, the Father and God of Jesus Christ, also had a body of flesh and bone and spirit, just like His son. Even the Trinity doctrine declares that the God the Father and Jesus Christ are made of the same substance.

So if the Trinity doctrine is right in that aspect, then you can know that if Jesus has a has a resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit, so does his Father.
Remember, he does only those things that he sees his Father do. So since Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone and spirit, then the Father was also resurrected with a body of flesh and bone and sprit.

The spirit in a resurrected body is the life giving element and dominates the flesh and bone, and that is why Jesus made the comment that God is spirit, but it is obvious that He is more than just spirit, because His son is more than just spirit, and they are made of the same substance.

 

[mmksparbud]

When I learned this verse in Luke, I knew, by definition that God the Father, the Father and God of Jesus Christ, also had a body of flesh and bone and spirit, just like His son. Even the Trinity doctrine declares that the God the Father and Jesus Christ are made of the same substance.

So if the Trinity doctrine is right in that aspect, then you can know that if Jesus has a has a resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit, so does his Father.
Remember, he does only those things that he sees his Father do. So since Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone and spirit, then the Father was also resurrected with a body of flesh and bone and sprit.

The spirit in a resurrected body is the life giving element and dominates the flesh and bone, and that is why Jesus made the comment that God is spirit, but it is obvious that He is more than just spirit, because His son is more than just spirit, and they are made of the same substance.

It pretty plain when Jesus says God is spirit and then says a spirit has not flesh and bones. Jesus was niot flesh and bones until He became human. Before that, He was the same as His Father. He took on humanity--and will keep it. God the Father was never human at any point---ever.

 

[Peter1000]

It pretty plain when Jesus says God is spirit and then says a spirit has not flesh and bones. Jesus was niot flesh and bones until He became human. Before that, He was the same as His Father. He took on humanity--and will keep it. God the Father was never human at any point---ever.

Both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit. It is the spirit that gives life and dominates the flesh and bones, so it is not all spirit, but spirit is the focal point.

God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are made of the same substance. It would be odd for one of Them to have an advantage over the other.

 

[Randy777]

Both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit. It is the spirit that gives life and dominates the flesh and bones, so it is not all spirit, but spirit is the focal point.

God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are made of the same substance. It would be odd for one of Them to have an advantage over the other.

Are new bodies will be like Jesus’s We don’t a lot about them other than they not of the dust of the earth. as flesh and blood cant inherit eternity.

Both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit. It is the spirit that gives life and dominates the flesh and bones, so it is not all spirit, but spirit is the focal point.

God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are made of the same substance. It would be odd for one of Them to have an advantage over the other.

How then can the Father be in the Son if God is not Spirit?