Muslims claim Jerusalem as theirs.

Ignatius the Kiwi

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The entire world to the Muslim, is theirs and by right of their ability to conquer or subsume a population in order to make it Muslim. Allah's law must be acknowledged and submitted to by the world, not just Muslims. Israel might be particularly special to Muslims because of it's historical significance but that doesn't seem to be the reason why Muslims claim it. Muslims literally claim everything on Earth is theirs.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I can tell you that anyone who comes against the Temple
will answer for it to Yahweh. Like it or not, anything that
is dedicated to him belongs to him, especially the Temple.

Remember the example of Korah in Numbers 16.
Yahweh destroyed the rebels AND their families.
But that didn't end it.

36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
37 “Tell Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, to pick up the censers out of the blaze, for they are holy, and scatter the fire some distance away.
38 The censers of these men who sinned against their own souls, let them be made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar. Because they presented them before the Lord, therefore they are holy; and they shall be a sign to the children of Israel.”
Yes , Our brother and the apostle to the gentiles, Paul relayed the same thing . He who destroys the temple , God will destroy . For You are the temple , a house not made by hands . Yeshua said the same thing ..It must needs that offenses come but woe to him through whom they come ...it would be better that a millstone be tied around the neck and they be cast into the sea that anyone should harm one of these little ones which believe in me . Yeshua is the chief corner stone and we are living stones of God's temple . Unless the Lord build the house , they who labor , labor in vain ...that is why we are saved through grace lest any man should boast. Have you read Stephen's sermon that so offended the Jews ...God does not dwell in a temple made with hands . Do we reject God's corner stone in favor of some rocks that Herrod erected ? God destroyed the ungodly temple of Herrod in 70AD.
 
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NeedyFollower

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So no one in the US owns the land except Native Americans? No one in Scotland owns the land except descendants of the Picts? (Gee, I'd love a piece of that)
Ironically , I was thinking about that this morning. The policy of Manifest Destiny in this country was a form of genocide. No one owns anything ...When God gave dominion of the earth ..the idea was to preserve it ..to till and plant. It was and still is His creation . Of course we know from Isaiah 13 and many other prophets ...including the apostle Peter that the whole earth and heavens will grow old like a worn out garment ...that the very elements ( including the earth and heavens will be destroyed in fire ...including the old jerusalem , the old temple ..everything wrought by man so that the things wrought by God will be made manifest . ) This is both old and new testament understanding .
Yeshua was asked by a man to intercede in a dispute with his brother ( and Yeshua was known for wisdom and righteousness and not caring for the opinion's of man ) This man knew he could expect a fair hearing ...."Lord , he said . " Make my brother divide the inheritance with me . " What was Yeshua's answer ? " Man, who made me a judge or divider over you . " Beware of covetousness for a man's life does not consist of his possessions . " Are we the wisdom of the Lord ? Are we His body ? Has He changed ? Is His answer the same ?
By the way , the Native American's do not own the land any more than we do . The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof .
 
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Open Heart

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Ironically , I was thinking about that this morning. The policy of Manifest Destiny in this country was a form of genocide.
You haven't answered my question. Are there no owners of US land except Native Americans?
 
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Open Heart

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By the way , the Native American's do not own the land any more than we do . The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof .
This idea is held by some cultures, but not by ours. Even Native Americans have divided up the land on the reservations and own plots.
 
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pat34lee

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You are saying that the British owned most of the land? Really?

Not really. They were only the administrators of
the Palestine mandate. All of the mandates were
created to break up the Ottoman Empire and the
German colonies in other countries after WWI.
Mandate | League of Nations
 
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pat34lee

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God destroyed the ungodly temple of Herrod in 70AD.

As I said, I would be careful making statements
like that. Herod rebuilt the temple, but only
because Yahweh allowed it. And it is by His plan
that it will be built again, complete with altar
and Holy of Holies. Sacrifices will resume and
those who come against it will be judged as
rebels against Him. Are you a rebel?
 
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NeedyFollower

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You haven't answered my question. Are there no owners of US land except Native Americans?
Please forgive me for not replying sooner. I do not have a computer so I am not daily able to access this forum. My views as much as I am able to discern , like yours is based on the Gospel which Jesus / Yeshua proclaimed. I think our Lord and Savior answered better than I . Who made me a judge and a divider ? I think everyone is a caretaker at best. Those who sold lands and put money at the apostles feet understood that their inheritance was eternal . If they did retain "possession" of it , it was to be used for the glory of God which means to demonstrate the goodness of He who gave us His Son . The God I worship through His Son , is not worried about " owning " for He created all things . I am trying to be a disciple of Yeshua . He was concerned that His name was being blasphemed by BELIEVERS who did not demonstrate His charity and had become covetous and storing up treasures on earth , having none in heaven . Jesus/Yeshua warned against this attitude . In the beginning God ..Not in the beginning U.S.A. so there is no US land . We are members of a Kingdom I believe ..Did not Jesus/ Yeshua preach a Kingdom ? A Kingdom has a King who rules and owns all I believe.
 
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NeedyFollower

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As I said, I would be careful making statements
like that. Herod rebuilt the temple, but only
because Yahweh allowed it. And it is by His plan
that it will be built again, complete with altar
and Holy of Holies. Sacrifices will resume and
those who come against it will be judged as
rebels against Him. Are you a rebel?
I do not rebel against the blood of God's most beloved Son for we are to overcome by the Blood of the Lamb , the Word of our Testimony and love not our lives unto the death .
You would choose and encourage the blood of animals over God's sacrifice ? That would be rebellion to what Christ did . I thought Messianic's knew Christ was the Messiah .

God also allowed Pharaoh to prosper so He could show His power . Herod rebuilding the temple so God could destroy it thus fulfilling Christ prophecy is not a bit out of context. And the first martyr Stephen 's sermon where He said God does not reside in a temple made with hands ..What was that about ? Are we not a living temple with Christ the corner stone ?
 
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Heber Book List

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I do not rebel against the blood of God's most beloved Son for we are to overcome by the Blood of the Lamb , the Word of our Testimony and love not our lives unto the death .
You would choose and encourage the blood of animals over God's sacrifice ? That would be rebellion to what Christ did . I thought Messianic's knew Christ was the Messiah .

God also allowed Pharaoh to prosper so He could show His power . Herod rebuilding the temple so God could destroy it thus fulfilling Christ prophecy is not a bit out of context. And the first martyr Stephen 's sermon where He said God does not reside in a temple made with hands ..What was that about ? Are we not a living temple with Christ the corner stone ?


G_d does not live in a Temple - that has been clear since the time of Solomon. G_d, however, has always called his people to meet him in the Tent of Meeting, and then it was in the Temple, on at least the major feasts. That call continues to exist because each synagogue is the Temple in miniature (though not structurally, of course), with a history of calling the people to worship G_d with the shofar, as used to happen at the start of Shabbat in Israel, and still happens in some synagogues around the world.

Church services always used to start with a Call to Worship - verbally at the start of a service, or with a bell(s) prior to the start of a service. These represented a call by G_d for Christians to meet with G_d in a Church (not the other way round). Not many observe this clear Biblical teaching now.

There is a world of difference between where G_d is thought to live, and where he chooses to meet with his people. Unfortunately many modern Christians, as part of their worship, have the audacity to call G_d to come among them in their chosen place of worship! We can invite the Spirit to come and fill us again, but G_d is ALWAYS with us, as is guaranteed by Yeshua. No wonder non-believers are confused by Christianity!
 
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NeedyFollower

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G_d does not live in a Temple - that has been clear since the time of Solomon. G_d, however, has always called his people to meet him in the Tent of Meeting, and then it was in the Temple, on at least the major feasts. That call continues to exist because each synagogue is the Temple in miniature (though not structurally, of course), with a history of calling the people to worship G_d with the shofar, as used to happen at the start of Shabbat in Israel, and still happens in some synagogues around the world.

Church services always used to start with a Call to Worship - verbally at the start of a service, or with a bell(s) prior to the start of a service. These represented a call by G_d for Christians to meet with G_d in a Church (not the other way round). Not many observe this clear Biblical teaching now.

There is a world of difference between where G_d is thought to live, and where he chooses to meet with his people. Unfortunately many modern Christians, as part of their worship, have the audacity to call G_d to come among them in their chosen place of worship! We can invite the Spirit to come and fill us again, but G_d is ALWAYS with us, as is guaranteed by Yeshua. No wonder non-believers are confused by Christianity!
that call continues to exist because each synagogue is the Temple in miniature (though not structurally, of course), with a history of calling the people to worship G_d with the shofar, as used to happen at the start of Shabbat in Israel, and still happens in some synagogues around the world.


No , actually we are the temple . A building not built with hands. That is the mystery . There was a significant change albeit a better change . Otherwise we could not have a high priest in Yeshua who was of the tribe of Judah. But of course He existed even before Abraham or the Law or Adam .
A very humbling experience to experience G_d's mercy. Had I been a righteous man, it would have made "sense" but Yeshua did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance . To whom much is forgiven , loveth much. To be an enemy of G_d and His response is to forgive me ???? Who is like that ???? It has caused me to beat my sword into a plowshare ( so we may sow the life giving Word ) and my spear into a pruning hook . ( So more fruit can be harvested . ) How wonderful are G_D's ways ??? His goodness calls me to worship for there is none like Him ...None . If people knew our G_D , there would be no need to call to worship ..it is the natural response of knowing Him and being known by Him. Having His law written on our hearts and His goodness manifested. Peter was a disciple but not converted until he denied our Lord and was forgiven. Oh , how I wish every believer could get lost so they may be found ! ( Peter remained in a state of humility and was able to accept Pauls admonition when Peter got carried away through fear of man and disassembled . )
It was written , but I say .....that denotes a change . The change ? Emmanuel. That had never happened. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins . We were bought by His own blood and it is a better covenant for He is eternal . And never before had it happened . Never . Nor can it be made better or improved upon unless there is one higher than the Most High. Nor can man add anything to it for we are but dust and ashes and what shall we give to satisfy G_D ? At best we can be like Aarons' son and rebel against G_D's Word that became flesh. G_D gives grace to the humble for they need it and have the ability to be wrong . This is difficult ( maybe impossible ) for those of reputation ....they have an image to protect ...and every pat on the back , every Amen ..every best selling book adds another brick to their reputation and makes it difficult to repent. Gnosticism ( Special knowledge ) ..being special ..having a deeper understanding than others is a plague which primarily only affects the zealous. ( Spiritual pride is like carbon monoxide . ) Saul /Paul was infected by it due to his particularly zealousness for G_D . It worked pride in him so that is why he was particularly wary of those who preached the keeping of rituals as a way of atonement and despised what G_D had wrought . ( Look what I have done for you G_D. I thank thee Lord that I am not as other men ..even as this publican - christian - gentile - atheist ... I give tithes of all I posses ..I fast twice in the week , etc. )...that attitude is only practiced by the zealous but that spirit seems to run through every group group ...Jehovah's Witness , Mormons and fundamental Mormons , Amish, Catholic , Protestant(s) , 7th Day , etc.
Shall I encourage others to forsake Christ and go about to establish their own righteousness ? " Friend ...where is your wedding garment ? " Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up.
How does it not despise G_D to encourage the establishing of a man made temple. The assembly is only a church when two or more are gathered in His name ..otherwise , it is only some building . God's presence dwelling in His people , is what makes it anything . Without G_D it is nothing .
 
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Heber Book List

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that call continues to exist because each synagogue is the Temple in miniature (though not structurally, of course), with a history of calling the people to worship G_d with the shofar, as used to happen at the start of Shabbat in Israel, and still happens in some synagogues around the world.


No , actually we are the temple . A building not built with hands. That is the mystery . There was a significant change albeit a better change . Otherwise we could not have a high priest in Yeshua who was of the tribe of Judah. But of course He existed even before Abraham or the Law or Adam .
A very humbling experience to experience G_d's mercy. Had I been a righteous man, it would have made "sense" but Yeshua did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance . To whom much is forgiven , loveth much. To be an enemy of G_d and His response is to forgive me ???? Who is like that ???? It has caused me to beat my sword into a plowshare ( so we may sow the life giving Word ) and my spear into a pruning hook . ( So more fruit can be harvested . ) How wonderful are G_D's ways ??? His goodness calls me to worship for there is none like Him ...None . If people knew our G_D , there would be no need to call to worship ..it is the natural response of knowing Him and being known by Him. Having His law written on our hearts and His goodness manifested. Peter was a disciple but not converted until he denied our Lord and was forgiven. Oh , how I wish every believer could get lost so they may be found ! ( Peter remained in a state of humility and was able to accept Pauls admonition when Peter got carried away through fear of man and disassembled . )
It was written , but I say .....that denotes a change . The change ? Emmanuel. That had never happened. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins . We were bought by His own blood and it is a better covenant for He is eternal . And never before had it happened . Never . Nor can it be made better or improved upon unless there is one higher than the Most High. Nor can man add anything to it for we are but dust and ashes and what shall we give to satisfy G_D ? At best we can be like Aarons' son and rebel against G_D's Word that became flesh. G_D gives grace to the humble for they need it and have the ability to be wrong . This is difficult ( maybe impossible ) for those of reputation ....they have an image to protect ...and every pat on the back , every Amen ..every best selling book adds another brick to their reputation and makes it difficult to repent. Gnosticism ( Special knowledge ) ..being special ..having a deeper understanding than others is a plague which primarily only affects the zealous. ( Spiritual pride is like carbon monoxide . ) Saul /Paul was infected by it due to his particularly zealousness for G_D . It worked pride in him so that is why he was particularly wary of those who preached the keeping of rituals as a way of atonement and despised what G_D had wrought . ( Look what I have done for you G_D. I thank thee Lord that I am not as other men ..even as this publican - christian - gentile - atheist ... I give tithes of all I posses ..I fast twice in the week , etc. )...that attitude is only practiced by the zealous but that spirit seems to run through every group group ...Jehovah's Witness , Mormons and fundamental Mormons , Amish, Catholic , Protestant(s) , 7th Day , etc.
Shall I encourage others to forsake Christ and go about to establish their own righteousness ? " Friend ...where is your wedding garment ? " Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up.
How does it not despise G_D to encourage the establishing of a man made temple. The assembly is only a church when two or more are gathered in His name ..otherwise , it is only some building . God's presence dwelling in His people , is what makes it anything . Without G_D it is nothing .

A good response... that shows you did not really understand my post :)
 
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Open Heart

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Please forgive me for not replying sooner. I do not have a computer so I am not daily able to access this forum. My views as much as I am able to discern , like yours is based on the Gospel which Jesus / Yeshua proclaimed. I think our Lord and Savior answered better than I . Who made me a judge and a divider ? I think everyone is a caretaker at best. Those who sold lands and put money at the apostles feet understood that their inheritance was eternal . If they did retain "possession" of it , it was to be used for the glory of God which means to demonstrate the goodness of He who gave us His Son . The God I worship through His Son , is not worried about " owning " for He created all things . I am trying to be a disciple of Yeshua . He was concerned that His name was being blasphemed by BELIEVERS who did not demonstrate His charity and had become covetous and storing up treasures on earth , having none in heaven . Jesus/Yeshua warned against this attitude . In the beginning God ..Not in the beginning U.S.A. so there is no US land . We are members of a Kingdom I believe ..Did not Jesus/ Yeshua preach a Kingdom ? A Kingdom has a King who rules and owns all I believe.
I am not just a Christian and a Jew. I am many other things besides. One of the things I am is American, and I feel good about that. I am also 1/16 Native American, tribe unknown. I don't go around claiming to be an NDN, just of distant descent. I've always felt bad that we had no record of my ancestor's tribe or her Indian name. But back then it was very common for an NDN to cut ties with their tribe when they became baptized and assimilated into American culture.I was not raised in a home that had any consciousness about NDNs.

My love for certain tribes and NDN attitudes towards life took hold through my avid reading in junior high. I simply began adopting certain ways of viewing the world, especially the natural world. I also learned a lot participating in an online Circle that was designed to bring together NDNs with trustworthy white folks who wanted to know them better. Mostly I just listened a lot. LOL that's hard for me.

One time I drove a third of the way across the country to visit the four corners area--my goal was to see the four sacred mountains of the Dinee. I felt hugely unsatisfied with visiting tourist places and looking at all the stuff for sale. You can't buy what I wanted. I finally took a turn off the main highway and drove for over an hour on what was hardly a road. WAY off in the distance, I saw an authentic hogan. It was enough for me to know that there were still those keeping the old ways. I didn't drive closer to it, but kept on going down the road -- I figured the last thing I wanted to do was be another white person pestering them.

Getting back to the thread...

Although many of the tribes had no concept of private ownership of land, they certainly understood communal ownership of the land. Territorial boundaries between tribes were endlessly fought over, as various tribes migrated. The Dinee (Navajo) came down from Canada. The Lakota (Sioux) were once an eastern woodlands tribe that encroached upon the Crow.

When you have land, which is the same thing as saying when you have resources, there has to be an understanding over who has the right to that land / those resources. Without such an understanding, there is going to be violence.

There are currently many treaties signed by Native American tribal leaders with the US Government. The ones signed through trickery should be thrown out. The ones signed in earnestness should be kept, or formally renegotiated. For example, the Lakota received the Black Hills as part of its present abiding treaty BUT in actuality the Black Hills were forcibly taken from them when gold was discovered. IMHO, the Lakota should be able to appeal to the Supreme court for the return of those lands, basically suing the Federal Government for failing to uphold its terms. This was done several decades ago with the tribes in Maine.

The point I'm making is that even the Native Americans make a claim to the land, the fact that they have a more communal culture notwithstanding.

And on a side note -- I hope someday the Black Hills are returned to their natural primal state. The US had no right to create the art on Mt Rushmore. And whose nutty idea was it to honor Crazy Horse by using explosives in the Black Hills to carve his image? Crazy Horse is turning over in his grave.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I am not just a Christian and a Jew. I am many other things besides. One of the things I am is American, and I feel good about that. I am also 1/16 Native American, tribe unknown. I don't go around claiming to be an NDN, just of distant descent. I've always felt bad that we had no record of my ancestor's tribe or her Indian name. But back then it was very common for an NDN to cut ties with their tribe when they became baptized and assimilated into American culture.I was not raised in a home that had any consciousness about NDNs.

My love for certain tribes and NDN attitudes towards life took hold through my avid reading in junior high. I simply began adopting certain ways of viewing the world, especially the natural world. I also learned a lot participating in an online Circle that was designed to bring together NDNs with trustworthy white folks who wanted to know them better. Mostly I just listened a lot. LOL that's hard for me.

One time I drove a third of the way across the country to visit the four corners area--my goal was to see the four sacred mountains of the Dinee. I felt hugely unsatisfied with visiting tourist places and looking at all the stuff for sale. You can't buy what I wanted. I finally took a turn off the main highway and drove for over an hour on what was hardly a road. WAY off in the distance, I saw an authentic hogan. It was enough for me to know that there were still those keeping the old ways. I didn't drive closer to it, but kept on going down the road -- I figured the last thing I wanted to do was be another white person pestering them.

Getting back to the thread...

Although many of the tribes had no concept of private ownership of land, they certainly understood communal ownership of the land. Territorial boundaries between tribes were endlessly fought over, as various tribes migrated. The Dinee (Navajo) came down from Canada. The Lakota (Sioux) were once an eastern woodlands tribe that encroached upon the Crow.

When you have land, which is the same thing as saying when you have resources, there has to be an understanding over who has the right to that land / those resources. Without such an understanding, there is going to be violence.

There are currently many treaties signed by Native American tribal leaders with the US Government. The ones signed through trickery should be thrown out. The ones signed in earnestness should be kept, or formally renegotiated. For example, the Lakota received the Black Hills as part of its present abiding treaty BUT in actuality the Black Hills were forcibly taken from them when gold was discovered. IMHO, the Lakota should be able to appeal to the Supreme court for the return of those lands, basically suing the Federal Government for failing to uphold its terms. This was done several decades ago with the tribes in Maine.

The point I'm making is that even the Native Americans make a claim to the land, the fact that they have a more communal culture notwithstanding.

And on a side note -- I hope someday the Black Hills are returned to their natural primal state. The US had no right to create the art on Mt Rushmore. And whose nutty idea was it to honor Crazy Horse by using explosives in the Black Hills to carve his image? Crazy Horse is turning over in his grave.
Hi Sister ..I can appreciate your background . Like the Native Americans, land and sustenance were synonymous in the day when Christ walked this earth . Yeshua was poor. Not exact figures but I read that to feed an average family , one had to have in their possession 7 acres of land . Apparently many Jews in Nazareth only had 5 . Then they were taxed by Rome through the leaders of the synagogue. The leaders of the synagogue were " allowed by Rome " to practice their religion provided they " played the game . " ( They enriched themselves and lived in upper Jerusalem , not hardscrabble Nazareth . ) This is what made Yeshua furious ...The religious leaders had no concept of the lives actually lived of those they led ..no compassion for the poor and widows. Tax collectors , soldiers , etc. ..It seemed most were on the take and the government turned a blind eye . ( Herod being the biggest scoundrel thus the rebuilding of the temple to appease the people and to hide his wickedness ...history doth repeat it self . )
I know people from a Native American background . I know people of Jewish decent . I know people of Hispanic background and I know the Son of God. I am being re identified by Him ..being transformed . If I associate myself with my forbearers , I will find murderers and many ungodly people . ( I need not look beyond my own life before Christ. ) That was and remains the message of the gospel . There is none righteous , no not one . But One did die for all that we may become one in Him. That was the understanding of the 1st century church. America is a nation which suffers from multiple personality disorder ...and christians have this disorder as well . It probably stems from wrong teaching , pride and a misplaced understanding of who we are in Christ. Are you able to think of any group -people -persons ..including Native Americans , Jews , American Hero's , etc. that we should be associated with that has a better name than Christ ? I can not... for the Father Himself ordained that at the name of Christ , every knee shall bow . No one else both died and rose for me ..not to mention everyone else is human.
Followers of Christ are instructed to make disciples of all nations ..teaching them to observe all that He has commanded us. In other words , our agenda is different than America's ..it is different than Israel's agenda ..it is different than a muslim's ..our agenda is eternal life through Christ. Loving our enemies as He loved us when we were enemies of God and without hope in the world. Islams agenda is Islam ...Israel's ( natural Israel ) agenda is Israel but it is not Christ. Any gang's agenda is the gang ..whether the gang is the US ..russia ..the Jehovah Witness ..Baptist ...etc. Be not conformed to THIS World sister .
America's treatment of the Natives living here has never for one second through any leader has been Christian as defined by the words of Christ. The buffalo were exterminated in order to cut off the food supply and starve them. The blankets inoculated with small pox. The Cherokee farmers ( who had converted to christianity ) who were driven from their lands via the trail of tears so that their land could be taken ... treaty after treaty broken ....How does this represent Christ ? It does not and I am very , very sorry that many muslims, jews and especially Christians associate America with Christianity . ...I could go on and on but my point ( I hope ) is this . This country is and has always been just as wicked and ungodly as other nations . We are not special because of our "profession". ( Ahab had a good profession ..He was absolutely Jewish and absolutely King of Israel .) That did not keep him from practicing "manifest destiny" regarding Naoboths vineyard. And Christ did not come to make God a respecter of persons. If this country did what Jezabel-Ahab did , how should the reward be any different ?
As it relates to the thread ...Yeshua said Believe me woman a time is coming when you shall worship the Father neither on this mountain NOR IN JERUSALEM . How have we missed that for the last two thousand years . .. Sister ....the land you now stand on is no more nor no less holy as Jerusalem . Who shall tell Israel the gospel ?
 
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pat34lee

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I do not rebel against the blood of God's most beloved Son for we are to overcome by the Blood of the Lamb , the Word of our Testimony and love not our lives unto the death .
You would choose and encourage the blood of animals over God's sacrifice ? That would be rebellion to what Christ did . I thought Messianic's knew Christ was the Messiah .

God also allowed Pharaoh to prosper so He could show His power . Herod rebuilding the temple so God could destroy it thus fulfilling Christ prophecy is not a bit out of context. And the first martyr Stephen 's sermon where He said God does not reside in a temple made with hands ..What was that about ? Are we not a living temple with Christ the corner stone ?

I see you writing words, but I see that you don't understand
what you're writing because you follow church theology that
has thrown out the first 1500 years of the written word and
substituted its own meaning to the words.
 
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NeedyFollower

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A good response... that shows you did not really understand my post :)
Well brother .....I do not mind you humbling me by saying I had an intelligent response that missed the boat. ( In other words , that I am too smart for my own good ...I can't see the forest for the trees ) i think that of course may be true and whereas knowledge puffs up , love edifies. If my response failed to edify you and exalt Christ ( also known as the truth ) then it did indeed miss the mark. Like the Jewish mid-rash , I wish to discuss an understand . So that I may try to understand what you were explaining , I will restate what I thought the point you were making.

I thought you were saying that while it is true that God does not dwell in an earthly temple , he has not changed any of the requirements that existed when there was an earthly temple but that the synagogue(s) has replaced the temple . At least that is what I thought you were saying. And to follow the Old Covenant to it's logical conclusion is to deny the new covenant ...It seems that would deny a change has happened ..Emmanuel ...G_D with us as you know. I am not opposed to the assembling together but making the building ( or Jerusalem ) of any importance is an old covenant thought process which will lead people to place more emphasis on the outward than the inward....rituals will once again rule the day. Praise and Worship teams ...expensive Rams Horns ..Holy attire ...gold encrusted buildings ...and gold encrusted lives . Look in Amos 6:5 and ask yourself ...How did believers get here ?

I will try to be more direct . I do not believe Yeshua went to the temple to worship , to meet God , etc. I believe he went to teach, exhort and to pray . I think he worshiped everywhere he breathed ..being the truth..He was and is worship . It is my understanding that believers are His body ..the temple of God on earth . When was Yeshua , Yeshua ? From Friday Sundown until Saturday Sundown ? How about when he was at the well ...was He the body of Christ then or was He only the Messiah while at the synagogue ? Not only did His life change everything ..His death and Resurrection changed everything ..It had never happened before . Fortunately the Law WAS changed , otherwise you and I would have no high priest making intercession for you and I when we don't love one another and others as much as we both want to . I hope we will by G_D's grace .
Pray for me and share the good news of G_D's mercy. I take it you " became as a Jew" so that you may win Jews to Christ ? I am not saying that this is the case but please be careful not to become like Col. Nicholson in Bridge over the River Kwai . It only happens to sincere and zealous people . Who owns Jerusalem ? G_D .
 
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pat34lee

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Right, we agree. So you mispoke? when you said that the government owned most of the land?

No. Prior to the mandate, the Ottoman Empire
owned most of the land in Israel. The second
largest landowners were the absentee Turks.
Like most countries, Israel had and has public
land and private land. The government either
owns or is caretaker of all public lands. Britain
just held the land taken from the Ottomans to
parcel it out like the other mandates.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I see you writing words, but I see that you don't understand
what you're writing because you follow church theology that
has thrown out the first 1500 years of the written word and
substituted its own meaning to the words.
No ..I am not in a church for the church should have known I was lost but did not . I am by G_D's goodness in Christ and belong to Him because He found me. I can not speak about your experience for I have not experienced it . Are you able to tell me about what I saw while walking here ? What have you learned by what I saw ? What have you learned by what I experienced ? The loss of all my things including my family ..what was that like for you ? Theology ? Hardly ..if any man follow me , let them first count the cost . Can you tell me what that means ? When you repented ( turned ) was it difficult to love the unseen things while living in a world obsessed with the seen ..possessions, power , the emphasis on the outward observances ?

Philosophy is theology which you have not experienced. Or words on paper . It is not only given you to believe on Him but to suffer for His name sake . Do you have those to succor you through the comfort whereby they were comforted when you go through the fiery trials which are to try you ? ? The scriptures speak of not following a novice ...and a novice is someone who has not gone through the fire. ( We think people who have DD's , a degree in theology , etc. are not novices ...most people in the US are novices . ) Now our brothers and sisters overseas in muslim countries would not be novices . No ..Our problem here is Gnostisim ...special knowledge ...we have an understanding that no one else has ..It has been hidden for centuries ....we are the only true way and everyone else is deceived . We are supposed to be speaking hebrew and wearing holy clothes and observing new moons and feast days ( Be sure those in the Ghettos can take off work .... With our new understanding of scripture , we see that the early reformers were deceived ...Christianity was not supposed to be a new religion ...Yes ..I know . New knowledge . a New Understanding . You are of course superior



I do put a lot of stock in Paul's writings since it cost him so much ( actually everything ) . The people who are leading you ...what has it cost them exactly ...not in material goods but in terms of everything dear to them ? Make sure they are not armchair theologians with lots of education and none of the Spirit of Christ ..I am not saying that this is the case but all of Saul's/Paul's knowledge only caused him to think more highly of himself than he did .
If you do not understand that G_D is not weak ...He is not afraid ...that the blood can not be unshed... that all the universe is His ..Not just Jerusalem ..I do not know what to tell you ...

Be careful of the spirit of pride or vain glory ...you know the deception played on the big screen ... go join G_D's army ..fighting injustice and the forces of evil ....go be a hero but actually G-D does not need us ..... We need G-D. The greatest threat to true faith is Not the muslims nor the atheist , nor the Jew. It is from deceived Christians in all our pet doctrines we hold . It is unbelief . It is pride which keeps us from being wrong so that G_d may be right .
There is nothing new under the sun....this was all played out in many different ways in the early church . See Galatians .
 
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