Muslims claim Jerusalem as theirs.

[NeedyFollower]

You have omitted the reference to Jesus' hint about his return: not until his Chosen People (the people of Jerusalem) can say: baruch, haba b'Shem Adonai.
The people of Jerusalem ? Yes when the time of the gentiles be fulfilled but after the 144,000 it says of every tribe and every tongue and every nation ...those who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb ..not the blood of an animal ..this will fulfill G-D's promise to Abraham ..it is larger than the Jews as was always the purpose of our Father .

Response: I can see no evidence in Scripture to support your view concerning the order in which these things will happen.

Hi Brother and thank you very much for fixing my posting/replies. It seems to me that there is evidence in the scriptures that quite often there is a literal interpretation in addition to the allegorical. many of the dispensationalist ( darby -Scofield ) etc may have jumped to conclusions and read certain things into their readings and propagated a rapture theology . Charles Russle ( Jehovah's witness ) in my opinion did the same thing. ( he failed to take into account that the Son of Man, nor the angels but the Father only knows the day and hour of His return ...additionally , he saw the name Jehovah as being a " key" understanding that believers had missed but he himself did not take into account that there was no "J" in Hebrew. And this same story is told throughout " Christiandom ..the story of misunderstanding and making a few key verses more or less a "fetish " . And this is not a " christian" problem only. David was stopped by Abigail when he would have been justified in slaying her husband. David was encouraged to slay Saul when Saul was delivered into David's hand but thankfully David knew better. So all that being said, we have a history of misunderstanding and misrepresenting G-D's will .

I do understand through scripture that the true vine ( Israel) will be grafted back in but I do not see that the people of Jerusalem are the Chosen People. The chosen people are the ones who G_D has chosen in addition to Israel but not all of Israel is Israel any more than every one who says Lord , Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of the Father ...and there is also according to scripture those who say they are Jews and are not but are of the synagogue( assembly ) of Satan . ( This was used by " christians " to justify pogroms but a follower of the Lamb is known by their fruits ...Love being the primary one. Meekness , humility , longsuffering and of course faith . There are many , many " proud " assemblies but that is contrary to " learn of me , I am lowly and meek...and those assemblies have many names but maybe not the One name...I do not know. I do not know the " order" other than Saul/ Paul ..probably a more devout and zealous Jew than most any today and more than others in his day , bought nothing through his keeping of the outwards observances. He was grafted into Christ. The VINE . His biology was not factored in . Salvation is of the Jews as Christ said and demonstrated but Christ was tossed out of the synagogue when He implied with His first sermon that G_D is not a respecter of people. (Nathan the Syrian-Leper and the widow of Sidon ) ..So there is the evidence . G_D will have mercy on who He will have mercy. Yes , to the Jew first and then to the greek ( heathen , pagan ) any who are out of the way ..for Christ came for sinners. For whosover will call on the name of the Lord ...I believe Him and love would dictate that. For it is because of G_D's love ..not because of any thing we bring to the table. Israel became G_D's chosen people because of G_D ..not because of any thing they brought to the table ..that was there downfall . Rahab the harlot ...saw and believed and was saved though not Jewish. Noah was saved though not Jewish.

You have not mentioned that the book of Revelation tells us that two witnesses will be killed and lay dead on the streets of Jerusalem for three days, before the end.

My point to my overly long reply is this : The city is "spiritually" called Egypt and Sodom where also our Lord was crucified. It does not say Jerusalem ..this is implied but not given. It may not be a city as we think a city any more than the Jezebel referred to in Revelation is the same as Ahab..it may refer to the "spirit " of Jezebel ..for example there may be a people who claimed like Ahab to represent G_D but ended up killing them and then taking their inheritance . (Jezebel's version of manifest destiny. ) Christ is also crucified when we claim Him for our own but deny Him in our actions. So where was He also crucified ? ...more places than the literal Jerusalem. To say we follow Him and do not . This is my point regarding the materialism which we ( In America anyway ) are consumed with. Is it literally Jerusalem ? Maybe ..maybe not. I guess it could be Washington , DC. New York City , London ..who knows ..far fetched ? Yes unless it is not . The flood was far fetched until it wasn't. G_D visiting His people via His Son , being rejected by many , crucified , put into the grave for 3 days , becoming Lord of the dead and the living , being resurrected and providing the shed blood thus making G_D's word true ....was very , very far -fetched until it wasn't.

I do not see any difference in a godless muslim , jewish , christian , buddist , atheist . So the fight over the temple is a side show. Our hearts is the problem ...not the real estate. It is only a distraction from that which matters most. Either that or the Messiah came so our hearts could remain wicked but we have earthly Jerusalem.

Response: The 1st and 4th are different gods to the G_d of the 2nd and 3rd. The dispute over the Temple, logic tells us, if lost, will destroy the 2nd and 3rd. The Bible will have to be re-written so that Yeshua went to the Mosque, not the Temple, and he celebrated Muslim feast days, not Jewish and Christian.

No ..there is only One G-D and many will hear , " Depart from me ye who work iniquity ...I never knew you . " There were ten virgins but five let their oil go out. Who was their G-D ? There was one who hid his talent( treasure, light / grace / mercy ) in the EARTH but had it taken away and was cast into outer darkness. Who was his G_D ? There is one Lord, one Faith and one baptism . Why is the focus on the earthly temple which G_D allowed to be destroyed ? Shall we build these things again so that we make crucify the Son of G_D anew ? Where is the commandment from Christ ( I am a disciple of Christ Jesus ) to rebuild the temple ? I can only find a commandment given to Solomon and that under the covenant of animal blood sacrifices .
It seems to imply that G_D can be stopped or that He can be enticed by mortal hands. Has Aaron's rod that budded been located ? How about the stones given to Moses ? Any manna ? What shall be put into the ark of the covenant ? Very pitiful comparison I say to the glory of the first and no comparison to the glory of the last temple , His Son and Our Lord Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. Shall the builders reject that stone again ????

 

[Heber Book List]

[QUOTE/]My point to my overly long reply is this : The city is "spiritually" called Egypt and Sodom where also our Lord was crucified. It does not say Jerusalem ..this is implied but not given. It may not be a city as we think a city any more than the Jezebel referred to in Revelation is the same as Ahab..it may refer to the "spirit " of Jezebel ..for example there may be a people who claimed like Ahab to represent G_D but ended up killing them and then taking their inheritance . (Jezebel's version of manifest destiny. ) Christ is also crucified when we claim Him for our own but deny Him in our actions. So where was He also crucified ? ...more places than the literal Jerusalem. To say we follow Him and do not . This is my point regarding the materialism which we ( In America anyway ) are consumed with. Is it literally Jerusalem ? Maybe ..maybe not. I guess it could be Washington , DC. New York City , London ..who knows ..far fetched ? Yes unless it is not . The flood was far fetched until it wasn't. G_D visiting His people via His Son , being rejected by many , crucified , put into the grave for 3 days , becoming Lord of the dead and the living , being resurrected and providing the shed blood thus making G_D's word true ....was very , very far -fetched until it wasn't.[QUOTE/]

It is Jerusalem, because that is the City of David and the City of G_d. G_d says he has set his name in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 6:6). If you look at the valleys on which Jerusalem stands, you will see that they are in the shape of the letter shin - the first letter of Shaddai, as in G_d's name El Shaddai. He has indeed set his name in Jerusalem, carved in the very bedrock; I've been there and seen it.

 

[NeedyFollower]

[QUOTE/]My point to my overly long reply is this : The city is "spiritually" called Egypt and Sodom where also our Lord was crucified. It does not say Jerusalem ..this is implied but not given. It may not be a city as we think a city any more than the Jezebel referred to in Revelation is the same as Ahab..it may refer to the "spirit " of Jezebel ..for example there may be a people who claimed like Ahab to represent G_D but ended up killing them and then taking their inheritance . (Jezebel's version of manifest destiny. ) Christ is also crucified when we claim Him for our own but deny Him in our actions. So where was He also crucified ? ...more places than the literal Jerusalem. To say we follow Him and do not . This is my point regarding the materialism which we ( In America anyway ) are consumed with. Is it literally Jerusalem ? Maybe ..maybe not. I guess it could be Washington , DC. New York City , London ..who knows ..far fetched ? Yes unless it is not . The flood was far fetched until it wasn't. G_D visiting His people via His Son , being rejected by many , crucified , put into the grave for 3 days , becoming Lord of the dead and the living , being resurrected and providing the shed blood thus making G_D's word true ....was very , very far -fetched until it wasn't.[QUOTE/]

It is Jerusalem, because that is the City of David and the City of G_d. G_d says he has set his name in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 6:6). If you look at the valleys on which Jerusalem stands, you will see that they are in the shape of the letter shin - the first letter of Shaddai, as in G_d's name El Shaddai. He has indeed set his name in Jerusalem, carved in the very bedrock; I've been there and seen it.

I have no doubt that Jerusalem is the City of David and He has set His name there . It is also the city most likely to kill prophets . ( Even Jesus/Yeshua said that it is not proper for a prophet to perish outside of Jerusalem. ) So that certainly gives weight to that understanding. This seems to be a side argument since it will happen exactly as the Lord has already determined. What concerns me most readily is from Amos ( I believe Amos gave the people to understand that G_D is most concerned with HIS name ...NOT Israel. And the " worship" they were conducting had replaced manifesting G_D's mercy ..they were storing up earthly treasures and lying on beds of Ivory while people around them were poor Amos 6:5 ) John the baptist also encountered this same "spirit . " The Christ also ran into this. I do not see where G_D is a respecter of persons but through pouring new wine into old wine skins , we have made the political Israel synonymous with the Israel of G_D. ( and by association we make america Israel's ally and "Savior" though we preach not Christ to Israel and by our actions we deny Him ) Again as much as I am able, I am trying to be a disciple of Christ . And again my understanding is that the body of Christ represents Him and He said that he has come to seek and save that which is lost .... God did not send His Son to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved. Do you believe the words from Deuteronomy 18:18 ? Is Christ the Word of G_D. ? Who needs a saviour more ? A lost Israelite who does not know their G_D ? A lost Christian following another Jesus? A lost Muslim ? Who is righteous enough to call down fire from heaven ? How dare we ? Vengeance is mine, I will repay thus sayeth the Lord . He will show mercy to the merciful but mercy can only be demonstrated through someone who has been a recipient of G_D's mercy. How shall they know Christ ??? What does Habakkuk say about the city built through bloodshed ? What happened to Niniveh in the book of Nahum ? Why are Christians promoting this ? Are messianics followers of the Lamb of G-D ? Why did G_D send Christ and why did Christ not rebuild the temple after His Resurrection ? Is He not the temple ? and from Luke 19:27 " But those enemies of mine that would not that I should reign over them, bring here and slay them before me . " Because they loved violence , violence will be their reward . Because they wanted "justice" ( not seeing them selves in need of mercy ) Mercy was denied. They loved the sword ...shall it be withheld ? Where is the Gospel ?