Universal Salvation - Did you know that this is at the core of the Gospel?

[Der Alte]

You need to do further research:
Rom_16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

No you need to do further research. Your response is nothing but "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" I quoted 22 passages where aion/aionios are defined by being associated with words like incorruptible, immortal, unchangeable etc. Can you refute any verse I quoted or can you show, as I did, where either word is associated with other words which define them as something other than eternity/eternal.
ETA: I don't mean aion/aionios referring to something which is not eternal.

 

[OzSpen]

I believe in the definition of aionios more as the Greek Linguist Lenep wrote and Rev Goodwin comments on here:

AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS

Rev. E. S. Goodwin, says:(3) "It would signify a multitude of periods or times united to each other, duration indefinitely continued. Its proper force, in reference to duration, seems to be more that of uninterrupted duration than otherwise; a term of which the duration is continuous as long as it lasts, but which may be completed and finished, as age, dispensation, sæculum, in a general sense.

So my understanding for understanding the word usage in scripture is that it refers to a duration that last beyond the age boundary but doesn't speak to the end point - only the continuing point.

Why don't you refer to the most extensive lexicons of the NT Greek language?

1. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker - regarded by Greek scholars as the eminent NT Greek lexicon.
2. Joseph Thayer.

You speak of the Greek linguist Lenep. Do you mean Lennep? Would you please provide a link to this person's definition of aiwnios so that I can compare with BAGD and Thayer?

Of course you would prefer the definition of aiwnios by Rev E S Goodwin because he was associated with the American Universalist Association.

Seems as though you are here to promote the American Universalist Association or Unitarian Univeralists. In addition to believing in universalism, are you also a non-trinitarian, i.e. a unitarian?

Oz

 

[ClementofA]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

Those are great questions. Did anyone answer them?

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism:
>Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism

 

[ClementofA]

Why don't you refer to the most extensive lexicons of the NT Greek language?

1. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker - regarded by Greek scholars as the eminent NT Greek lexicon.
2. Joseph Thayer.

Why do those lexicons ignore what early church father universalists, who were native Greek speakers & Greek scholars, say about the word aionios? So they can sell more books? Why cherry pick only those two amongst all the Greek scholars that could have been chosen? ECT bias?

Here's some other sources:

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
The Eons
EONS AND WORLDS

forever and ever: a poor translation:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter5.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/forever_eternity.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

http://makepeacewithjesus.org/4-scholars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/Writings/aion.html

 

[Hewillcome2040]

No Jesus will not save everyone , moreover when he returns to rescue Jews his garmet is coveret from top to bottom with blood because he is kinsman redeemer - he can rescue but most people forgot the most important role of kinsman redeemer , that he is avenger of blood . Jews had no prisons it was kinsman job to avenge blood and kill . In tribulation grace is gone and Jesus will slay them all who want to destroy Israel

Spiritual Israel has nothing to now with the modern state of Israel.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Because if all get saved, those who are obedient and those who aren't, those who repent and those who don't, then there's no point of any rules to begin with.

If all are going to be saved, then that means there's no danger of a punishment that we would need salvation from.

There's too many verses that say the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom, drunkards will not inherit the kingdom, etc.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You have to remember that God saves based on Faith in Him. God saves those that have His Spirit. Those with His Spirit will be obedient. But just because some don't have that obedience now doesn't mean they wont after His return. There is no doubt that, only those that have the Law written in their hearts will enter the Kingdom. But you MUST understand that God caused those that have that Law on their hearts to have it there. It is nothing that we did. God owns that process. He will put His law into the hearts of all in DUE time. So the understanding of Universalism is not saying that one can be saved along with their sins but rather that God will eventually take away everyone's sins.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Those are great questions. Did anyone answer them?

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism:
>Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism

Nobody answered them from what I can see. Some got offended by them I suppose.

 

[ClementofA]

Because if all get saved, those who are obedient and those who aren't, those who repent and those who don't, then there's no point of any rules to begin with.

Not true. There is still hell to avoid. Just not the endless tortures that make Love Omnipotent into a monster infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

There's too many verses that say the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom, drunkards will not inherit the kingdom, etc.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 6:9-11

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

"And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

As a commentator says:

"Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

"They had to be cleansed first, of course. As long as anyone is not cleansed, they have no part inside. But once cleansed, they they entered the kingdom."

Eventually all will enter the Kingdom:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

 

[Humble me Lord]

IMO, the universalist ideas sound great, if you are smoking marijuana on a mountaintop.
I am no bible scholar, but even I can see you are trying to sell a false gospel.
Pointing to specific scriptures, here, and here, oh and look here....this is what the writer really meant......
Do you guys know how many verses contain, "fear the Lord" ?
If everyone is eventually saved, why would anyone need to fear retribution?

 

[ClementofA]

Nobody answered them from what I can see. Some got offended by them I suppose.

That's what i'd expect from Damnationists. OTOH the universalists posting in your thread & supporting you are being blessed by your insights.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

No you need to do further research. Your response is nothing but "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" I quoted 22 passages where aion/aionios are defined by being associated with words like incorruptible, immortal, unchangeable etc. Can you refute any verse I quoted or can you show, as I did, where either word is associated with other words which define them as something other than eternity/eternal.
ETA: I don't mean aion/aionios referring to something which is not eternal.

No, you're not understanding, that all the verses you claim say eternal, I say mean age-enduring. You statement was that in every place the word aionios is used it means eternal. I showed you a verse where that is not the case.

And yes I can refute it. Let's start with this one:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now in that verse both everlasting and eternal are both derived from aionios. I'm going to show you that your trying to have it both ways. You're trying to have eternal to mean ANY of the following:

1.) a beginning but no ending.
2.) no beginning and no ending.

So which is it? If you pick #1 then everyone knows that would be wrong because the LIFE of God has no beginning and that is the Life that believers obtain.

If you pick #2 then the punishment always existed.

You see that is what Eternal Torment believers do. They carry around two different meanings for aionios to use AS THEY SEE FIT.

 

[ClementofA]

If everyone is eventually saved, why would anyone need to fear retribution?

Hell.

This has been stated in this thread several times already.

It demonstrates how ignorant of universalism Damnationists are.

Should you knock something you don't understand & therefore have never even considered properly?

Maybe these two links will help with some misconceptions:

Minimal Statement of Faith for Evangelical Universalists
Statement of Faith -- Please Read

7 Myths About Universalism
7 Myths About Universalism

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Why don't you refer to the most extensive lexicons of the NT Greek language?

1. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker - regarded by Greek scholars as the eminent NT Greek lexicon.
2. Joseph Thayer.

You speak of the Greek linguist Lenep. Do you mean Lennep? Would you please provide a link to this person's definition of aiwnios so that I can compare with BAGD and Thayer?

Of course you would prefer the definition of aiwnios by Rev E S Goodwin because he was associated with the American Universalist Association.

Seems as though you are here to promote the American Universalist Association or Unitarian Univeralists. In addition to believing in universalism, are you also a non-trinitarian, i.e. a unitarian?

Oz

I use word studies myself. I only mentioned Lennep because his understanding is how I perceive it. My word studies are the authority on this for me. If I listened to scholars they would tell me almah means young woman when I know it means virgin.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

IMO, the universalist ideas sound great, if you are smoking marijuana on a mountaintop.
I am no bible scholar, but even I can see you are trying to sell a false gospel.
Pointing to specific scriptures, here, and here, oh and look here....this is what the writer really meant......
Do you guys know how many verses contain, "fear the Lord" ?
If everyone is eventually saved, why would anyone need to fear retribution?

Because fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. God is RESPONSIBLE for our sins but we are held ACCOUNTABLE for them for our own conscience is witness that we approved of sin.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Now read those verses. Does it say that we were made subject to vanity willingly? no but by reason of Him (God) who subjected us in hope. So it is His will that we were made subject to vanity.

 

[Der Alte]

No, you're not understanding, that all the verses you claim say eternal, I say mean age-enduring. You statement was that in every place the word aionios is used it means eternal. I showed you a verse where that is not the case.
And yes I can refute it. Let's start with this one:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now in that verse both everlasting and eternal are both derived from aionios. I'm going to show you that your trying to have it both ways. You're trying to have eternal to mean ANY of the following:
1.) a beginning but no ending.
2.) no beginning and no ending.
So which is it? If you pick #1 then everyone knows that would be wrong because the LIFE of God has no beginning and that is the Life that believers obtain.
If you pick #2 then the punishment always existed.
You see that is what Eternal Torment believers do. They carry around two different meanings for aionios to use AS THEY SEE FIT.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! You are not understanding! You evidently didn't even read my post just posted some canned one size fits all argument at me. Unlike you I have studied Greek and Hebrew at the graduate level and I have two major Greek and Hebrew lexicons in my library. Here is one of the verses I quoted.

1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God.
...
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.[/SIZE]​

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “incorruptible.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT

(BDAG)
[BDAG] αἰώνιος
•αἰώνιος (ία Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; OdeSol 11:22; TestAbr A; JosAs 8:11 cod. A; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; mss. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; AcPl BMM recto 27=Ox 1602, 29; Just., A I, 8, 4 al.; B-D-F §59, 2; Mlt-H. 157),ον eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; ins, pap, LXX, En, TestSol, TestAbr A, Test12Patr; JosAs 12:12; GrBar 4:16; ApcEsdr; ApcMos 29; Ps.-Phocyl. 112; Just.; Tat. 17, 1; Ath., Mel.; standard epithet for princely, esp. imperial, power: OGI index VIII; BGU 176, 12; 303, 2; 309, 4; Sb 7517, 5 [211/12 AD] κύριος αἰ.; al. in pap; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago χρόνοις αἰ. long ages ago Ro 16:25; πρὸ χρόνων αἰ. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (in these two last pass. the prep. bears the semantic content of priority; on χρόνος αἰ. cp. OGI 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c θεὸν τ. αἰώνιον; IBM 894, 2 αἰ. κ. ἀθάνατος τοῦ παντὸς φύσις; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; SibOr fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. θρόνος αἰ. 1 Cl 65:2 (cp. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I BC] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248-50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109-28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12.κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod. S. 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2(cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9.πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11(ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳbe glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186-201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217-28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.​

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! You are not understanding! You evidently didn't even read my post just posted some canned one size fits all argument at me. Unlike you I have studied Greek and Hebrew at the graduate level and I have two major Greek and Hebrew lexicons in my library. Here is one of the verses I quoted.

1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God.
...
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.[/SIZE]​

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “incorruptible.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT

(BDAG)
[BDAG] αἰώνιος
•αἰώνιος (ία Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; OdeSol 11:22; TestAbr A; JosAs 8:11 cod. A; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; mss. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; AcPl BMM recto 27=Ox 1602, 29; Just., A I, 8, 4 al.; B-D-F §59, 2; Mlt-H. 157),ον eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; ins, pap, LXX, En, TestSol, TestAbr A, Test12Patr; JosAs 12:12; GrBar 4:16; ApcEsdr; ApcMos 29; Ps.-Phocyl. 112; Just.; Tat. 17, 1; Ath., Mel.; standard epithet for princely, esp. imperial, power: OGI index VIII; BGU 176, 12; 303, 2; 309, 4; Sb 7517, 5 [211/12 AD] κύριος αἰ.; al. in pap; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago χρόνοις αἰ. long ages ago Ro 16:25; πρὸ χρόνων αἰ. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (in these two last pass. the prep. bears the semantic content of priority; on χρόνος αἰ. cp. OGI 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c θεὸν τ. αἰώνιον; IBM 894, 2 αἰ. κ. ἀθάνατος τοῦ παντὸς φύσις; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; SibOr fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. θρόνος αἰ. 1 Cl 65:2 (cp. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I BC] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248-50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109-28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12.κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod. S. 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2(cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9.πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11(ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳbe glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186-201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217-28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.​

Again,your just posting a bunch of scholary stuff. Listen, many would claim the Pope is the chief scholar of Christianity but I find myself disagreeing with much of what the Pope says. So if I took what you said and used someone's theological credentials to prove my belief system then I would have seriously errored. I do my OWN analysis using word studies to decide the meaning. I don't care what criticism that brings to me because I know how antichrist operates.

 

[CGL1023]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

I think that is refuted by Matthew 10:28: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
I understand this to means that some are going to be destroyed and we know that "broad is the way that leads to destruction ( Mat 7:13)." It seems to me that at least one will be lost and not redeemed. If one then many are lost irreversibly.

 

[ClementofA]

I do my OWN analysis using word studies to decide the meaning.

If you'ld care to share that sometime, i'd be interested in your thoughts, sir. Maybe in another thread?

I have a number of posters here on ignore or semi-ignore, etc. BTW, if you're ever interested in a more universalist friendly forum, i'd suggest the following. I'm sure they'd be blessed by your contributions.

Forum

 

[mkgal1]

Do you guys know how many verses contain, "fear the Lord" ?

Yes.....but have you read a bit further?

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love."~1 John 4:18

If everyone is eventually saved, why would anyone need to fear retribution?

I don't, personally, believe our desire to be saved (from sin/death) ought to be out of fear of punishment. Jesus said He laid before us a choice between life or death (and encouraged us to "choose life"). The way I see it is: sin renders us dead....Jesus is offering us LIFE. We can either "go the easy way".....or wait until He purifies (heals us) us later. If you had cancer....and someone was offering you a cure.....why would you wait? What benefit is there?​

 

[CGL1023]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! You are not understanding! You evidently didn't even read my post just posted some canned one size fits all argument at me. Unlike you I have studied Greek and Hebrew at the graduate level and I have two major Greek and Hebrew lexicons in my library. Here is one of the verses I quoted.

1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God.
...
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.[/SIZE]​

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “incorruptible.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT

(BDAG)
[BDAG] αἰώνιος
•αἰώνιος (ία Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; OdeSol 11:22; TestAbr A; JosAs 8:11 cod. A; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; mss. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; AcPl BMM recto 27=Ox 1602, 29; Just., A I, 8, 4 al.; B-D-F §59, 2; Mlt-H. 157),ον eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; ins, pap, LXX, En, TestSol, TestAbr A, Test12Patr; JosAs 12:12; GrBar 4:16; ApcEsdr; ApcMos 29; Ps.-Phocyl. 112; Just.; Tat. 17, 1; Ath., Mel.; standard epithet for princely, esp. imperial, power: OGI index VIII; BGU 176, 12; 303, 2; 309, 4; Sb 7517, 5 [211/12 AD] κύριος αἰ.; al. in pap; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago χρόνοις αἰ. long ages ago Ro 16:25; πρὸ χρόνων αἰ. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (in these two last pass. the prep. bears the semantic content of priority; on χρόνος αἰ. cp. OGI 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c θεὸν τ. αἰώνιον; IBM 894, 2 αἰ. κ. ἀθάνατος τοῦ παντὸς φύσις; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; SibOr fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. θρόνος αἰ. 1 Cl 65:2 (cp. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I BC] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248-50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109-28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12.κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod. S. 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2(cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9.πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11(ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳbe glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186-201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217-28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.​

With all of what you have written, you would seem to be saying that our English Bibles are of no value in understanding the deep things of God. It would seem to mean you can only come as a Phd and not as a child; that the Holy Spirit does not actually teach as purported. I cannot even imagine what it must take to navigate the mine field you have laid down. I looks like it will take both faith and a lot of works to be saved in your program and not just faith alone.