Universal Salvation - Did you know that this is at the core of the Gospel?

[Hewillcome2040]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Did you know it is contrary to ALL SCRIPTURE?

(footnote: So did someone else invite you to this forum to promote that? One of the others recently trying? )

So, no, it is not the core of the Gospel.

It is a commonly attempted deception in line with the worldwide church coming to great power the last few centuries and summing up in the beast system.

(even if it looks un-associated with the beast, that's where it came from and is going)

(too long again to go into all that - already disproven centuries ago, and many times since).

By the same methods of changing words and meanings of simple Scripture, in place of simply believing YHWH'S WORD as HE BREATHED IT,
and
leading to thinking and teaching that repentance IS NOT NEEDED TO BE SAVED,
many thus lose their souls forever, NEVER to enter eternal life.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Did you know it is contrary to ALL SCRIPTURE?

(footnote: So did someone else invite you to this forum to promote that? One of the others recently trying? )

So, no, it is not the core of the Gospel.

It is a commonly attempted deception in line with the worldwide church coming to great power the last few centuries and summing up in the beast system.

(even if it looks un-associated with the beast, that's where it came from and is going)

(too long again to go into all that - already disproven centuries ago, and many times since).

By the same methods of changing words and meanings of simple Scripture, in place of simply believing YHWH'S WORD as HE BREATHED IT,
and
leading to thinking and teaching that repentance IS NOT NEEDED TO BE SAVED,
many thus lose their souls forever, NEVER to enter eternal life.

Universalism is at the core of the Gopsel.

God will have every knee to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Those are two different statements, not inclusive.

Since God's Word denies universalism, in many places,
it is heresy. NOTHING to do with the GOSPEL.

HE gives everyone the way of escape from that heresy,
so you have already decided to ignore HIm.

I don't expect you will listen to anyone here.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Those are two different statements, not inclusive.

Since God's Word denies universalism, in many places,
it is heresy. NOTHING to do with the GOSPEL.

HE gives everyone the way of escape from that heresy,
so you have already decided to ignore HIm.

I don't expect you will listen to anyone here.

Here is PROOF from your Bible of Universalism:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Notice, that EVERY Tongue - no matter where it is - Under Earth, In Earth, In Heaven, etc... (Universalism).

Now how can one confess that Jesus is Lord? - only by having the Holy Spirit:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

There is is - your Bible shows that every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord and it also shows that all confessing that He is Lord will have the Holy Spirit and it shows that those doing the confessing are found universally..

 

[Sketcher]

Matt 8:11-12, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:46, John 3:18, Rev 20:11-15, and Rev 21:6-8 all clearly state that salvation is not universal. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but it will be too late for that to do any good for the unrighteous who did not come to Jesus while they had the chance.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Matt 8:11-12, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:46, John 3:18, Rev 20:11-15, and Rev 21:6-8 all clearly state that salvation is not universal. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but it will be too late for that to do any good for the unrighteous who did not come to Jesus while they had the chance.

Let's address those verses:

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In Matthew 8:11-12, we have the time of the return of Christ to usher in the Kingdom. Their will be those that are joined to Christ at His coming (the saints) and the rest are cast out. This time period is DURING the millennial reign. Therefore to suggest that those people that are cast out is like calling the end of the football game at half time. In other words, the Saints are necessary to reign in effort to convert the rest of the congregation (the ones cast out). This is just like it was in the Old Testament. The Levites had to be consecrated BEFORE the rest of the congregation of Israel could be atoned for.

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Now those verses are also again during the Millennial reign. Let's talk about that furnace of Fire. That Fire is the tribulation that those people will suffer to remove the dross. Let's Look closer:

Mal_3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Notice in Malachi that Lord is a refiner's fire? - what does that mean? - well a refiners fire remove the dross of a metal so that what comes out of the fire is the precious pure shimmering beautiful metal. Now what is Fuller's Soap? - well that is the soap used to make a Garment WHITE. You see the Lord is coming with His Saints to make atonement for the rest of the Congregation of Israel (the rest of humanity).

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The verse above uses the Greek word aionios in both sections bold above. The word an adjective describing a point of continuance. (therefore the proper meaning is "age-enduring") and is actually translated like that is some instances depending on Bible version. So this means that some are going to go into punishment (kolasis) that is beyond the age boundary and some will enter into LIFE beyond the age boundary. Now if you know what kolasis is then you will understand that it is the pruning of a tree. Now why do we do that? So that the Tree thrives and doesn't die.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That verse above was all statedin the PRESENT tense. You can see that when you look up believeth in a Greek Parsing - πιστευωνG4100 V-PAP-NSM. So that has nothing to do with meaning that someone would always be condemned.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now to the above verses, think back to my earlier comments about the Refiner's fire. You see a lake is where baptism takes place. And the Holy Spirit is likened to Fire as it destroys the old nature within us. You see the carnal person see the fire literally while the Spiritual person understands it spiritually. Consider that John fortold that the Pharisees would be baptized with the Fire of the Holy Spirit:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (This verse is rendered in other texts as ...'fire of the Holy Spirit').

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The only thing that destroys death is Life. These that don't receive Life in this dispensation will receive it later through the second death. Yes, the verse is about those people receiving Life through the baptism in the Fire of the Holy Spirit. You see the Spirit is Life:

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I know this subject is tough for many to understand but I hope I have touched on all the verses you referenced. I used to be an adherent to eternal torment and later to annihilationism and then subsequently to Universal Salvation. It was a learning process. But I have studied it deeply and I welcome more verses and questions. Thank you for providing those.

 

[Sketcher]

Let's address those verses:

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In Matthew 8:11-12, we have the time of the return of Christ to usher in the Kingdom. Their will be those that are joined to Christ at His coming (the saints) and the rest are cast out. This time period is DURING the millennial reign. Therefore to suggest that those people that are cast out is like calling the end of the football game at half time. In other words, the Saints are necessary to reign in effort to convert the rest of the congregation (the ones cast out). This is just like it was in the Old Testament. The Levites had to be consecrated BEFORE the rest of the congregation of Israel could be atoned for.

Except that's not how Jesus described it.

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Now those verses are also again during the Millennial reign. Let's talk about that furnace of Fire. That Fire is the tribulation that those people will suffer to remove the dross. Let's Look closer:

Mal_3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Notice in Malachi that Lord is a refiner's fire? - what does that mean? - well a refiners fire remove the dross of a metal so that what comes out of the fire is the precious pure shimmering beautiful metal. Now what is Fuller's Soap? - well that is the soap used to make a Garment WHITE. You see the Lord is coming with His Saints to make atonement for the rest of the Congregation of Israel (the rest of humanity).

That's not the same fire. Jesus' ministry was the refiner's fire and the launderer's soap. Jesus was speaking to something else at the end of days.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The verse above uses the Greek word aionios in both sections bold above. The word an adjective describing a point of continuance. (therefore the proper meaning is "age-enduring") and is actually translated like that is some instances depending on Bible version. So this means that some are going to go into punishment (kolasis) that is beyond the age boundary and some will enter into LIFE beyond the age boundary. Now if you know what kolasis is then you will understand that it is the pruning of a tree. Now why do we do that? So that the Tree thrives and doesn't die.

Here's the definition: Aionios - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

So it's not a temporary punishment or discipline. It's forever. That means there's no redemption for those who get that punishment.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That verse above was all statedin the PRESENT tense. You can see that when you look up believeth in a Greek Parsing - πιστευωνG4100 V-PAP-NSM. So that has nothing to do with meaning that someone would always be condemned.

But the life is only given to believers in John 3:16.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now to the above verses, think back to my earlier comments about the Refiner's fire. You see a lake is where baptism takes place. And the Holy Spirit is likened to Fire as it destroys the old nature within us. You see the carnal person see the fire literally while the Spiritual person understands it spiritually. Consider that John fortold that the Pharisees would be baptized with the Fire of the Holy Spirit:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (This verse is rendered in other texts as ...'fire of the Holy Spirit').

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The only thing that destroys death is Life. These that don't receive Life in this dispensation will receive it later through the second death. Yes, the verse is about those people receiving Life through the baptism in the Fire of the Holy Spirit. You see the Spirit is Life:

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I know this subject is tough for many to understand but I hope I have touched on all the verses you referenced. I used to be an adherent to eternal torment and later to annihilationism and then subsequently to Universal Salvation. It was a learning process. But I have studied it deeply and I welcome more verses and questions. Thank you for providing those.

It is not described in Revelation as a refiner's fire. It is described as the second death, final judgment.

Repent while you can.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Whenever a false doctrine is being lived and promoted, INSTEAD OF SCRIPTURE,
then
when SCRIPTURE is read, or posted, it is ignored (wittingly or UNwittingly),

in order ot protect the false.

This is the same as in the first century - men have not changed,

except perhaps "the wicked have become more wicked" (in numbers and in evil).

Thus we see today "the wicked become more wicked" while
"the righteous become more righteous" (LIGHTS SHINING in the DARKNESS)....
as Scripture Says repeatedly.
Many more heresies being promoted in the last 20 years
than there were 60 years ago.
And there will be more every day this next year, if Yeshua Tarries.
(things will not get any better, except fraudulently)

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Except that's not how Jesus described it.


That's not the same fire. Jesus' ministry was the refiner's fire and the launderer's soap. Jesus was speaking to something else at the end of days.


Here's the definition: Aionios - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

So it's not a temporary punishment or discipline. It's forever. That means there's no redemption for those who get that punishment.


But the life is only given to believers in John 3:16.


It is not described in Revelation as a refiner's fire. It is described as the second death, final judgment.

Repent while you can.

Ok, let's use your definition of aionios. Can you tell me why the KJV has it translated as something that is not eternal:

Rom_16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The bolded part above is translated from aionios. But you see if it REALLY did mean ETERNAL then the secret would never be revealed.

Now you also said that it meant no beginning, this means that according to the same verses you referenced it poses a big problem. For example:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It the word means "no beginning and no ending" then those that are righteous ALWAYS have been and those that are going into punishment ALWAYS have been.

This is the problem with the the definitions you provided for aionios. They don't live up to how the word is used.

Now if we use my definition of the word then you would see that the secret was kept BEFORE the age or that it endured before the age (age enduring).

Now I posted this in an earlier post:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Notice, that EVERY Tongue - no matter where it is - Under Earth, In Earth, In Heaven, etc... (Universalism).

Now how can one confess that Jesus is Lord? - only by having the Holy Spirit:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Now I have gone through and explained the contradictions you believe you presented but you haven't explained mine. How do you explain that the Bible says that everyone under earth, in earth, above earth are going to confess that Jesus is Lord and that they will do so by the Holy Ghost?

 

[friend of]

Regarding Philippians 2:10-11

^These passages do not suggest that all who admit that Jesus is Lord will be saved. You are reading something into scripture that isn't there. Satan and his minions attempt to deny the divinity of Christ Jesus. The day is coming when they will be forced to admit that Jesus is Lord, and on that day will be their demise. Remember, they rebelled because they refused to acknowledge Jesus as Lord of all creation.

1 John 4:2-3
1 John 2:22

James 2:19

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Universalism is explicitly false doctrine according the the Bible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How do you explain that the Bible says that everyone under earth, in earth, above earth are going to confess that Jesus is Lord and that they will do so by the Holy Ghost?

This isn't true.

When they unregenerated confess that Jesus is Lord, that doesn't save them - it is too late. Simply , all YHWH'S WORD SAYS is they will be required to acknowledge that JESUS IS LORD - NOT that they will be saved, ever.

 

[Acts2:38]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

Hello,

I am curious. Are you calling God a liar?

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hello,

I am curious. Are you calling God a liar?

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

From what is written in GOD'S WORD, (ALL SCRIPTURE),
the whole world worships demons and refuses to repent.
SO the whole world calls God a liar, or worse.

Without repentance, the whole world gets what is deserved, as there is no more any sacrifice for their sins. (they perish forever, never to see heaven, ever)

Standing for the TRUTH, standing against the one world government and the world church, is TOO MUCH for some people who love the companionship the world gives - they love the world or approval of sinful men more than they love the approval of GOD, so they perish in their sin, if they don't repent.

 

[Acts2:38]

From what is written in GOD'S WORD, (ALL SCRIPTURE),
the whole world worships demons and refuses to repent.
SO the whole world calls God a liar, or worse.

Well, I was asking that question to him since he claims to believe in the bible. If he does believe in the bible, his position he stands on is false, otherwise he is claiming the bible is contradictory of itself and not to be heeded.

Without repentance, the whole world gets what is deserved, as there is no more any sacrifice for their sins. (they perish forever, never to see heaven, ever)

Hebrews is a good book to read. I am going over again lately and have been for the past few months.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

This deception will guarantee the souls of those who believe it, a place in hell, which is eternal! You promote a very false message which is contrary to all that the Bible teaches! Unless you think that you know better than Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, who said "unless you repent, you too will all perish" (Luke 13:3)? And, "“The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” (Mark 1:15) ,and again Jesus says, "“Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again" (John 3:3). And, Matthew 7:13, "“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many."

You see, the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, as recorded in the Holy Bible, show that your theory of "universal salvation" is not found in the Bible, but the invention of the devil himself, whose purpose is to deceive as many as he can, into a false salvation and hope!

 

[Sketcher]

Ok, let's use your definition of aionios. Can you tell me why the KJV has it translated as something that is not eternal:

Rom_16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The bolded part above is translated from aionios. But you see if it REALLY did mean ETERNAL then the secret would never be revealed.

Now you also said that it meant no beginning, this means that according to the same verses you referenced it poses a big problem. For example:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It the word means "no beginning and no ending" then those that are righteous ALWAYS have been and those that are going into punishment ALWAYS have been.

This is the problem with the the definitions you provided for aionios. They don't live up to how the word is used.

Now if we use my definition of the word then you would see that the secret was kept BEFORE the age or that it endured before the age (age enduring).

The verse is better translated in the NASB:

"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past"​

This better communicates the origins of God's plan as predating the creation of the world.

Now I posted this in an earlier post:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Notice, that EVERY Tongue - no matter where it is - Under Earth, In Earth, In Heaven, etc... (Universalism).

Now how can one confess that Jesus is Lord? - only by having the Holy Spirit:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Now I have gone through and explained the contradictions you believe you presented but you haven't explained mine. How do you explain that the Bible says that everyone under earth, in earth, above earth are going to confess that Jesus is Lord and that they will do so by the Holy Ghost?

I did address it, and I'll say it again, this time differently: In no way does Phil 2:10-11 state that a confession at the final reckoning will be salvific, and your teaching is making the assumption that it will be. God has limited the window of opportunity for such confessions resulting in grace from him that leads to eternal life.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

I was reading scripture the other day, and it actually explained
the core of the Scriptures, then said it was the core! In three different places.
So your conclusion doesn't hold up.

Matt 22:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 All the Law and the Prophets” depend on these two commandments.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[Catherineanne]

Jesus will eventually save everyone. This is at the core of the Gospel.

Ask yourself this:

1.) Who creates Life?
2.) Who does everything with a purpose?
3.) Who never fails?
4.) Who gets what He desires?
5.) Who desires that none should be lost forever?
6.) Who desires that all should be saved?
7.) Who will is greater - man or God?
8.) Can God persuade?
9.) Can God fail to persuade?
10.) Does God have the power to save everyone?

Almost. You seem to have forgotten free will.

God will save everyone EXCEPT those who refuse to be saved, by which I mean absolutely refuse to have anything to do with anything God offers to them in any way at all. Repeatedly and absolutely nothing.

I have no idea how many such people there may be, but that there will be some is probably inevitable.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Regarding Philippians 2:10-11

^These passages do not suggest that all who admit that Jesus is Lord will be saved. You are reading something into scripture that isn't there. Satan and his minions attempt to deny the divinity of Christ Jesus. The day is coming when they will be forced to admit that Jesus is Lord, and on that day will be their demise. Remember, they rebelled because they refused to acknowledge Jesus as Lord of all creation.

1 John 4:2-3
1 John 2:22

James 2:19

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Universalism is explicitly false doctrine according the the Bible.

Do you believe that God can fail? Does not God start a work and finish it? Is He not the one that gives Life with a purpose? Will not the purpose be accomplished?