Sacrifice and Catholic teaching

[TheBibleIsTruth]

The problem is that, at least some of them, believe their human teaching IS the word of God.

Which is very dangerous

 

[ViaCrucis]

It is nothing short of blasphemy to say that Jesus actually enters a wafer and wine millions of times every week.

I'd be cautious about accusing the Son of God of blasphemy like that. We will be held accountable for every idle word that proceeds from out of our mouth.

Like water baptism is no more than outward testimony of the inner cleaning of sins when the sinner repents.

Stop following human tradition and believe in stead the word of God which tells you what Baptism is and hat Baptism is for. For Scripture says that we were buried with Christ in Baptism (Colossians 2:12), clothed with Christ in Baptism (Galatians 3:27), received the Holy Spirit in Baptism (Acts 2:38), and "this baptism which now saves you" (1 Peter 3:21).

You will find nothing in Scripture which says that baptism is "no more than outward testimony of the inner cleansing of sins when the sinner repents"--that is no where in Scripture, that is your own man-made teachings which violate the word of God.

Stop believing these human traditions and believe what the Bible says.

The Lord's Supper represents the body and blood of Jesus

Show me where it says that in Scripture? It doesn't. Scripture says that the Lord's Supper is the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[fhansen]

Catholics- It's not a hard question. Please answer without attacks. I'll state it again-

Answer this simple question please-Is there any "moment of sacrifice", symbolically or otherwise, other than when Jesus' heart beat its last beat and he gave up his spirit? Also, is there any "act of sacrifice" other than when the Romans crucified him?"

Not as if there was another sacrifice besides the one, but rather representations of that one, universal, eternal sacrifice.

 

[Albion]

And likewise those opposing Catholic teaching rarely prove any critic to be wrong.

They have spelled out the reformed doctrinal perspective and the objections to the Roman Catholic theories with some specificity, however. But the responses? They are mainly of the "I will believe what I want to believe, "you lie," or "you don't know Catholicism" variety. Read them for yourself if you doubt it.

 

[fhansen]

I notice that there are many on these forums that don't like being proved wrong, especially when it comes to Catholic questions etc. They refuse to see it in a Catholic light. It's only their way or no way!

That's ok-they also argue with each other frequently over the meaning of the only source of God's Word that they accept, Sacred Scripture.

 

[fhansen]

They have spelled out the reformed doctrinal perspective and the objections to the Roman Catholic theories with some specificity, however. But the responses? They are mainly of the "I will believe what I want to believe, "you lie," or "you don't know Catholicism" variety. Read them for yourself if you doubt it.

There is no universal "reformed doctrinal perspective".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The only person accused of, as you put it,

is you because you said this:

"as I was saying, the resacrificing of Christ was taught routinely until recently when the "show the original sacrifice to the Father once again" slant became more common."

You have been given an opportunity to show you did not do what you say you have been accused of. I guess the lack of response is in itself your response.

Has no one been accurately taught about what was practiced and taught (openly without denying it) up till 30 years ago or so ?
Not about the truth of Scripture,
but about the re-crucifixion of Christ at every mass ? (world wide)

 

[concretecamper]

Has no one been accurately taught about what was practiced and taught (openly without denying it) up till 30 years ago or so ?
Not about the truth of Scripture,
but about the re-crucifixion of Christ at every mass ? (world wide)

Of course the same challange applies to you, to present evidence that the RCC taught Christ was re-crucified at every Mass. Come on, don't get lumped in with someone else

 

[Albion]

There is no universal "reformed doctrinal perspective".

Save it for the other people who thrill to that kind of nonsense.

 

[fhansen]

Save it for the other people who thrill to that kind of nonsense.

Save it for the gullible. Protestants on this thread won't agree on the Real Presence to begin with as one poster has brought up, along with denial of baptismal regeneration. So the RCC decides it's time to more clearly describe what's happening at the Mass, as she did in recent changes to the Creed said at Mass, improvements in translation only for the purpose of stating more perfectly the intent-so what? This reminds me of Luke 7:32, about petty stuff.

 

[Albion]

Save it for the gullible.

I fully expect the next installment to be a "So's your old lady." C'mon. Give us something to work with.

 

[SolomonVII]

I am not sure if this is 100% correct. The Eucharist is His glorified body. His body at the last supper and on the cross were not glorified.

In some sense Mass is as though we are present at Calvary, but it is not as though some type of time travel is going on by which we are magically taken back to the foot of the cross. I would look at the article I posted, which describes several traditional ways of characterizing the Mass.

Hmm, interesting perspective.
But I don't think that Jesus had two bodies. I think that he had only one.

 

[Arsenios]

#1 Thanks for trying.

Thanks for noticing sincerity.

But still, you are not reading the statement made by the Catholic Encyclopedia about this.

That is true - I do not read the Catholic Encyclopedia...

The Eastern Orthodox Faith of Christ is all I was giving...

I know what I was taught. The same thing you are trying to relate to me. That at the mass, you are celebrating the one sacrifice at Calvary. That its like you go back to the same one moment 2000+ yrs ago to the moment he died.

That moment is here and now in the consecration of the Bread and the Wine that IS the Body and Blood of our Lord... It is an eternal moment... And Christ Himself celebrated it both before and after He was Crucified... That event is atemporal because God as man ascended the Cross and suffered and died and arose... We are all members of the Body of Christ because we eat His Body, and we have Life because we drink His Life Giving Blood... All of which is a Great Mystery - Entered, but never fully explained with words...

But, the Catholic Encyclopedia states, " it is not just a mere relation, but is "IN ITSELF A REAL SACRIFICE" .

Which is why I pray for those of the Latin Confession...

Its like you all are not reading what this says, but are quoting the party line over and over.

I can only stand to read heresy for a very limited time... I am sorry your old Church gets things so wrong...

This states that it doesn't just relate to Calvary, like one sacrifice over and over like you postulate, but is "In Itself a real sacrifice".

Over-explanations lead to error - The WHOLE is a Mystery, and when a Latin professor is slapped hard enough with questions, he will become a confessor of that Mystery... A marvellous journey! From PROfessing to CONfession...

#2 In the Eucharistic prayers, The Priest says "May my sacrifice and yours be acceptable to God" (the consecration about to be done). If what you say is true, wouldn't it be "May our connection to our Lords Sacrifice be made complete" or something similar?

We but pray: "Make our sacrifice acceptable..." For ours is but a sacrifice of praise... We could as well say: "May our prayers be acceptable..." Indeed, this may be what we do pray... I do not serve at the Altar... And our prayer is but an obedience to the command of Christ to consecrate the bread and wine, and feed the faithful...

#3 Also, if the Cannon definition to this, if it is the same as on Calvary except it is unbloody, if you are taught that it is the Very Blood of Christ, not a symbol?

Christ himself BEFORE He ascended the Cross for us blessed and broke bread and said: "Take... Eat... This IS my Body which is BROKEN for you..." So the bloodless Blood comes by consecration by Christ in the Body, and AFTER His departure from this earth, His Body is the Church, which he commands to do what He did... We partake of the Mystical Supper, my Brother... The Blessed and Broken Bread and the Blessed Wine ARE the Body and Blood of our Lord... To say anything else is to deny Christ Himself... For the Solas, it is undeniable Scripture...

And...

It is a Great Mystery...

The Faith of Christ is not an intellectual enterprise...
Contrary to the scholasticism of the West, Latin and Protestant...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

my PRIVATE views are based on the Infallible Word of Almighty God,

Are you still a fan of our favorite radio Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanegraaff?

‘Bible Answer Man’ Converts to Orthodoxy



Arsenios

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Are you still a fan of our favorite radio Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanegraaff?

‘Bible Answer Man’ Converts to Orthodoxy



Arsenios

Not at all. I never was!

 

[Arsenios]

Hmm, interesting perspective.
But I don't think that Jesus had two bodies. I think that he had only one.

You are right, He has only one...
And we are members of that One...

So do you believe Paul?

Col. 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh
for his Body's sake, which is the Church:

His Body is much more than just Carl, Julie and Fred
who happen agree in their own interpretation of the Bible...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Not at all.

rotfl!

An honest man!

I take back every bad thought I might have ever had about you!

God Bless Ya, Bro!

And a Blessed Season of the Nativity!

Great answer!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

It is nothing short of blasphemy to say that Jesus actually enters a wafer and wine millions of times every week. Like water baptism is no more than outward testimony of the inner cleaning of sins when the sinner repents. The Lord's Supper represents the body and blood of Jesus

Well, so much for believing the Bible...

"Take... Eat... This IS My Body..."

Arsenios

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well, so much for believing the Bible...

"Take... Eat... This IS My Body..."

Arsenios

Good,
and Jesus said explaining to His Apostles and disciples; These Words Are Spirit, and they ARE LIFE.

 

[Arsenios]

The only person accused of, as you put it,

is you because you said this:

"as I was saying, the resacrificing of Christ was taught routinely until recently when the "show the original sacrifice to the Father once again" slant became more common."

You have been given an opportunity to show you did not do what you say you have been accused of. I guess the lack of response is in itself your response.

I must confess that I normally accuse others of what it is that I am myself actually doing...

From which I infer: "DO NOT ACCUSE!"

But only, I should add, with mixed results...

I mean, it is a lot of fun to accuse!

And the dirty dogs ALL richly deserve it!

Ignoring that I am the dirty dog who richly deserves condemnation!

Sigh...

Arsenios