Sacrifice and Catholic teaching

mikeangel

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Catholics say, that the "sacrifice of the mass", is a representation of Calvary, not a re-sacrifice. But the breakdown of what is happening during the consecration, in the Catholic Encyclopedia, sounds like a separate sacrifice to me. Here is a discussion I was having with a Catholic friend of mine-

" This statement is from the Catholic encyclopedia. You might say "its not cannon" but not everything the priest and seminary teach is in the cannon, and to discover the subtle differences you have to read the encyclopedia. Written by priest and important "theologians". You need a lawyer to read it. The exposition of "the sacrifice of the mass" is Pages long. But I found that this summary sums up what they believe about it. It states-

  • the twofold consecration must show not only the relative, but also the absolute moment of sacrifice, so that the Mass will not consist in a mere relation, but will be revealed as in itself a real sacrifice;
  • the act of sacrifice (actio sacrifica), veiled in the double consecration, must refer directly to the sacrificialmatter — i.e. the Eucharistic Christ Himself — not to the elements of bread and wine or their unsubstantial species;
  • the sacrifice of Christ must somehow result in a kenosis, not in a glorification, since this latter is at most the object of the sacrifice, not the sacrifice itself;
  • since this postulated kenosis, however, can be no real, but only a mystical or sacramental one, we must appraise intelligently those moments which approximate in any degree the "mystical slaying" to a real exinanition, instead of rejecting them.
#1 And most important-the only "moment of sacrifice" was the last beat Jesus' heart made on the cross. If there is in the mass a definite "moment of sacrifice" that is a symbolic re-sacrifice.

#2 This is proven in the next statement-"the Mass will not consist in a mere relation, but will be revealed as in itself a real sacrifice;" This says that it does not just relate to calvary, but is "In Itself a real sacrifice". Direct contradiction.

#3 The term "Mystical slaying" forever changed my comfort in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

#4. In the Eucharistic prayers said before the consecration, the priest says, "May my sacrifice and yours be acceptable to God" Again, another separate sacrifice

#5. If by cannon definition the sacrifice is the same as on Calvary except that it is unbloody, then why was I taught from preschool that it was actually the very blood of Christ, NOT a symbol?"

How can Catholics allow this to be in the Encyclopedia?
 

Antig

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Jesus does not get sacrificed again. The mass is done in memory of what happened. It's like the retelling of a story. No sacrifice happens!

The bread and wine become the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Some great info here and the real truth about the Catholic mass and the Eucharist.

Is the Mass a Sacrifice? | Catholic Answers
 
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mikeangel

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Jesus does not get sacrificed again. The mass is done in memory of what happened. It's like the retelling of a story. No sacrifice happens!

The bread and wine become the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is the Mass a Sacrifice? | Catholic Answers

I know that is what you are taught. I was too, for 45 years.

The above quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia, mentions a "moment of sacrifice", and "act of sacrifice", and that it doesnt just "relate" to Calvary, but is "in itself a real sacrifice". This is straight out of the Catholic Encyclopedia. How do you explain that? It just doesn't seem any clearer than,"will not consist in a mere relation, but will be revealed as in itself a real sacrifice" . Painfully obvious to me. Also, like I mentioned above, Answer this simple question please-Is there any "moment of sacrifice", symbolically or otherwise, other than when Jesus' heart beat its last beat and he gave up his spirit? Also, is there any "act of sacrifice" other than when the Romans crucified him?
 
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Albion

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How can Catholics allow this to be in the Encyclopedia?

As you've seen, it's merely a change of words. The church used to teach that it was the "unbloody sacrifice of the Cross," but, facing increased skepticism from modern day Catholics, reworded it to be a "re-presentation" of the original sacrifice. However, Masses still are offered for the souls in Purgatory and other intentions, meaning that the Mass has to be a sacrifice in theory for it to have a sacrificial effect, not just a representation or symbol.
 
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concretecamper

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Good grief here we go again. Another "I know what the Catholic Church really teaches" thread . And better yet, an ex Catholic spreading error. Does it ever stop?

The teaching of the Church, and it has never changed, is during Mass, time fold into eternity and we are present at the last Supper, we are present at the crucifixion. Jesus' sacrifice was/is once and for all.

Now, the anti catholic people can continue their pillow talk.

A blessed Christmas to all
 
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Albion

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Good grief here we go again. Another "I know what the Catholic Church really teaches" thread . And better yet, an ex Catholic spreading error. Does it ever stop?

The teaching of the Church, and it has never changed, is during Mass, time fold into eternity and we are present at the last Supper, we are present at the crucifixion. Jesus' sacrifice was/is once and for all.

No, that's actually a relatively new perspective.
 
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Antig

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Again, untrue. You are are on roll. 2 for 2 in posts this thread containing falsehoods. And all this on Christmas day.

I have looked into it and agree that the OP is wrong. The link I put up is a good read.

Why do people who are clearly non Catholic keep throwing about untruths about the church when the truth is available if they look properly?
 
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AvilaSurfer

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I have looked into it and agree that the OP is wrong. The link I put up is a good read.

Why do people who are clearly non Catholic keep throwing about untruths about the church when the truth is available if they look properly?
Because they are terrified that if the Catholic Church is true.....they’re wrong.
 
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Antig

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Because they are terrified that if the Catholic Church is true.....they’re wrong.

I notice that there are many on these forums that don't like being proved wrong, especially when it comes to Catholic questions etc. They refuse to see it in a Catholic light. It's only their way or no way!
 
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Albion

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Notice also that Catholic posters put on the defensive rarely prove any critic to be wrong.

There hasn't been anything like an attempt at a counter-argument offered on this thread, for instance, just denial and personal attacks. To the reader, doing that amounts to writing, "I've got nothing."
 
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Arsenios

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Catholic posters... just denial and personal attacks.

I suspect they are war-weary...
Badly treated and illegitimate children often enjoy war...
The results do not change hearts...

Arsenios
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Because they are terrified that if the Catholic Church is true.....they’re wrong.
That is true possibly about some or even multitudes.
As written in SCRIPTURE,
JESUS SAVES THEM if they are willing and come to HIM. (either side)
 
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mikeangel

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Catholics- It's not a hard question. Please answer without attacks. I'll state it again-

Answer this simple question please-Is there any "moment of sacrifice", symbolically or otherwise, other than when Jesus' heart beat its last beat and he gave up his spirit? Also, is there any "act of sacrifice" other than when the Romans crucified him?"
 
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Antig

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Catholics- It's not a hard question. Please answer without attacks. I'll state it again-

Answer this simple question please-Is there any "moment of sacrifice", symbolically or otherwise, other than when Jesus' heart beat its last beat and he gave up his spirit? Also, is there any "act of sacrifice" other than when the Romans crucified him?"

Answer in link in post no:2
 
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