how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

[GraceBro]

Simple.

There is no love without justice. If you have two children and one is picking on the other and, if you, as a parent, do not punish the offending child for their behavior, you are telling the victimized child you do not love them. It is similar with God and Hell. God has said that He wants none to perish and all to come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. However, He won't force anybody to spend eternity with Him. Unfortunately, for those who do not want to be with Him, He honors their choice. Consequently, for them, He has not created anywhere else to put them, but into the fire of Hell. Since those who accepted Jesus get eternal life, those who didn't want to accept Jesus Christ, get their wish; eternal separation from God.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Simple.

There is no love without justice. If you have two children and one is picking on the other and, if you, as a parent, do not punish the offending child for their behavior, you are telling the victimized child you do not love them. It is similar with God and Hell. God has said that He wants none to perish and all to come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. However, He won't force anybody to spend eternity with Him. Unfortunately, for those who do not want to be with Him, He honors their choice. Unfortunately, for them, He has not created anywhere else to put them, but into the fire of Hell. Since those who accepted Jesus get eternal life, those who didn't want to accept Jesus Christ, get their wish; eternal separation from God.

God is a God of love and yes he punishes/prunes/chastise the wicked agely (if you do not understand agely read my post) but Torturing billions of people he never called forever and ever with NO mercy is not love and it is not good news its SICK. Did I choose Adam to sin? Did you? Show where Adam choose? You are assuming this. What do you mean God does not force anybody. [staff edited] John 6:44. The word draw in that verse means to be dragged/forced.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Lake of Fire or Divine purging is spiritual. All of God's people will experience God's Holy spiritual fire now or later. Spiritual is not real? I really do not care what happens to Satan and his messengers they will end up in Tartarus not the Lake of Divine purging.

The lake of fire is the same place created for the Devil and His angels and for the lost . No such thing as lake of divine purging.

You cannot just make up things

 

[GraceBro]

Merry Christmas!

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

The lake of fire is the same place created for the Devil and His angels and for the lost . No such thing as lake of divine purging.

You cannot just make up things

The word fire comes from the Greek word "pur" which we get our English word pure, purge, purify etc. I though you knew Greek? Show me where the Lake of Fire is for Satan and his messengers? Satan and his messengers will locked in the Abyss for a 1000 years there final place will be Tartarus.

More symbolism Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Revelation 20 [Full Chapter]
[ The Thousand Years ] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Of course we will all go though God's spiritual fire.

The second death is death killed by death or the end of death. The first death was Adam spiritual death. The second death will kill the first death. No more death no more hell.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The word fire comes from the Greek word "pur" which we get our English word pure, purge, purify etc. I though you knew Greek? Show me where the Lake of Fire is for Satan and his messengers? Satan and his messengers will locked in the Abyss for a 1000 years there final place will be Tartarus.

More symbolism Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Revelation 20 [Full Chapter]
[ The Thousand Years ] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Of course we will all go though God's spiritual fire.

The second death is death killed by death or the end of death. The first death was Adam spiritual death. The second death will kill the first death. No more death no more hell.

Matthew 25 - 41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Matthew 25 - 41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”

There is no mention of the Lake of Divine Purging in this verse. he word Tartarus is only found once in the Bible and that is at 2 Pet. 2:4,

"Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;" (2 Pet. 2:4)

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

 

[ClementofA]

Matthew 25 - 41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”

Satan will be saved:

Colossians 1:15-20
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.


John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

As for your misleading deceptive translation of Mt.25:41, see:



Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Satan will be saved:

Colossians 1:15-20
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.


John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

As for your misleading deceptive translation of Mt.25:41, see:



Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Every creature I agree and love this verse BUT Satan is a spirit and God created Satan as a waster, destroyer, murderer never an angel. Once Satan job is complete eating dust (human carnality) there is no reason for him for there will be no more sin or death or hell as you all call it so Him and his messengers go to Tartarus as 2 Peter 2:4 declares.

 

[LoveofTruth]

There is no mention of the Lake of Divine Purging in this verse. he word Tartarus is only found once in the Bible and that is at 2 Pet. 2:4,

"Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;" (2 Pet. 2:4)

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

Revelation 20 - 10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

Notice the words “devil” and lake of fire.

This fire must be the same one mentioned here

“ Matthew 25 - 41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels”

 

[LoveofTruth]

There is no mention of the Lake of Divine Purging in this verse. he word Tartarus is only found once in the Bible and that is at 2 Pet. 2:4,

"Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;" (2 Pet. 2:4)

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

the lake of fire will be the final place. Even those in hell will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels one day as s scripture speaks of.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Satan will be saved:

Colossians 1:15-20
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.


John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

As for your misleading deceptive translation of Mt.25:41, see:



Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

the key words are

"by Him to reconcile all things to Himself,"

If a person is not "in Him" through repentance and faith they will be found out of him or lost forever. Jesus said those who believe in him have eternal life. Not this who deny him and harden their hearts.

Jesus said

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit....5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."(John 15:1,6 KJV)

and we read of all those in heaven in Rev 5:3. Yes they are the saved ones. not the lost in hell and eventually to be cast into the lake of fire.

And there is no redemption for any after death. The gospel would be made of no effect if that was the case. To say that some will be able to deny Jesus and reject the gospel and then later through some purgation in hell or some other way is to preach another gospel.

Universalism is a false doctrine. And a long talk. To be a universalist you have to twist a great many scriptures and use a variety of Bibles besides the KJV to try and make sense of the clear scriptures.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.

It is a good idea to teach your children of the consequences of their actions and even thoughts.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Proverbs 3:29
Do not plan evil against your neighbor, who dwells trustingly beside you.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Romans 15:2
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Proverbs 25:17-18
Let your foot be seldom in your neighbor's house, lest he have his fill of you and hate you. A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is like a war club, or a sword, or a sharp arrow.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Leviticus 19:16-18
You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Matthew 19:19
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 6:10
So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

 

[SkyWriting]

And there is no redemption for any after death. The gospel would be made of no effect if that was the case. To say that some will be able to deny Jesus and reject the gospel and then later through some purgation in hell or some other way is to preach another gospel.

18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit,
19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

the lake of fire will be the final place. Even those in hell will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels one day as s scripture speaks of.

So you ignore the verse on Tartarus. Yes Hell and death will be cast in the Lake of Divine purging that means no more death and no more hell. All will be saved in the end.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

the key words are

"by Him to reconcile all things to Himself,"

If a person is not "in Him" through repentance and faith they will be found out of him or lost forever. Jesus said those who believe in him have eternal life. Not this who deny him and harden their hearts.

Jesus said

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit....5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."(John 15:1,6 KJV)

and we read of all those in heaven in Rev 5:3. Yes they are the saved ones. not the lost in hell and eventually to be cast into the lake of fire.

And there is no redemption for any after death. The gospel would be made of no effect if that was the case. To say that some will be able to deny Jesus and reject the gospel and then later through some purgation in hell or some other way is to preach another gospel.

Universalism is a false doctrine. And a long talk. To be a universalist you have to twist a great many scriptures and use a variety of Bibles besides the KJV to try and make sense of the clear scriptures.

Again God's fire is SPIRITUAL not literal so the burning is the burning of the soul not the spirit. Yes God has many ages to call all the heathen people he never called.


Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

 

[LoveofTruth]

18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit,
19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...

Preached there is a different word from preached for salvation in other places. It simply means to proclaim or declare what has been done. There is no evangelizing in hell. Once to die then the judgement.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

How do you "tuck your children in at night and explain to them" that God is apparently not a just God because He allows (presupposing annihilationism) for the negation of accountability as well as for sin to be overcome by some other means outside of the work of the Cross?

Missing the glory of eternity is punishment... if your child misbehaves and was looking forward to going to an event with friends and you said that they couldn't go, that is punishment for the child. No lack of accountability... this life is the staging area for the wonderful eternity to come and if you are excluded from it because of unrepentence, then to me there can be no greater "punishment". We as humans think of corporal punishment as being the most severe and "just" retribution for disobeying God... lucky for us, we have a compassionate and loving Father... read what is said of Him

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked;

Isaiah 55:8,9
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Again God's fire is SPIRITUAL not literal so the burning is the burning of the soul not the spirit. Yes God has many ages to call all the heathen people he never called.


Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

Get a good KJV , you are reading a wrong translation

but the text says

"That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

The words "Might seek the Lord: are the key. Some might seek and others not. Seek the Lord while he may be found scripture says. If not then they will never find Him for life and hope. They will die and be separated forever from God in the lake of fire and it shall never be quenched.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That is partly a cause. But, are you actually claiming that a healthy respect (healthy fear) for the consequences of breaking the law is not always in our minds? When you find yourself exceeding the speed limit, what comes into your mind, just "well I want to be safe so that I do not cause an accident," or does not this also penetrate your thoughts: "I don't want a speeding ticket." Lets keep it real.

If you are speeding in the first place, you are guilty of the offense, whether caught or not, so the law is as Damocles' sword.

For those that never speed, do you think they are concerned with the laws of speeding? Are you concerned with the laws of killing someone?