Is there a gap between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24?

BABerean2

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There is not a mixed resurrection. There is an hour of when all the just will hear and come forth and there is a time all of the wicked will hear and come forth to damnation.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.




Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.
 
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Buzz_B

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Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.




Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.
So then, are all those described at 2 Thessalonians 2:12 lost?

2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
 
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claninja

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It is the body part yet to be given immortality. The wicked that rise will not be given but a body that will die again. You can either enter into life - or into hell fire.

Paul wrote as to getting a new body. It is earthy, it will be raised heavenly. It is corruption. Will be raised incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:37
"...the body that shall be..."


Philippians 3:21

“Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”


So here's what we know:

1.) before Christ ascended, no one else had ascended to the Father
: John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.e


2.) the OT saints didn't receive what was promised before the church: Hebrews 11:39-40
39These (OT saints) were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

3.) Even after Jesus had risen, there were believers who were sleeping, ie physically dead in the ground:
1 Corinthians 15:6
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

4.) Paul states that if there is no resurrection, then the dead have perished and we should "eat and drink for tomorrow we die". So each person may have a soul, as you say, but if there is no resurrection, then it is as good as dead. To say the soul goes to heaven before the resurrection would be the opposite of what Paul is saying:
1 Corinthians 15:32
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”d
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jesus Christ ascended in His new can't die again body to heaven. Right now, the souls of saints are in heaven, and Enoch was translated. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 shows saints will be coming back with Him from heaven - as sleeping.
"them which sleep in Jesus"
"will God bring with Him"

The author of Hebrews states that Enoch did not experience death, but it also states that he didn't go to heaven:

Hebrews 11:13-16
All these (including Enoch and Elijah) people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

This agrees with Jesus, that no one had ascended to the Father except the son of man (john 3:13)

1 Thessalonians 4:14 shows saints will be coming back with Him from heaven - as sleeping.

Lets look at the context:
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

The concerns of the Thessalonians were about the believers who have died before Christ's coming. Paul states that they believed Jesus died and rose again, so through Christ, the dead in Christ will be raised. God will bring with him to heaven those who have died. He goes farther in the next verse to clarify the order of the resurrection:

1 thessalonians 4:15-16
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
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Buzz_B

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So here's what we know:

1.) before Christ ascended, no one else had ascended to the Father
: John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.e


2.) the OT saints didn't receive what was promised before the church: Hebrews 11:39-40
39These (OT saints) were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

3.) Even after Jesus had risen, there were believers who were sleeping, ie physically dead in the ground:
1 Corinthians 15:6
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

4.) Paul states that if there is no resurrection, then the dead have perished and we should "eat and drink for tomorrow we die". So each person may have a soul, as you say, but if there is no resurrection, then it is as good as dead. To say the soul goes to heaven before the resurrection would be the opposite of what Paul is saying:
1 Corinthians 15:32
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”d
_______________________________________________________________________________


The author of Hebrews states that Enoch did not experience death, but it also states that he didn't go to heaven:

Hebrews 11:13-16
All these (including Enoch and Elijah) people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

This agrees with Jesus, that no one had ascended to the Father except the son of man (john 3:13)



Lets look at the context:
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

The concerns of the Thessalonians were about the believers who have died before Christ's coming. Paul states that they believed Jesus died and rose again, so through Christ, the dead in Christ will be raised. God will bring with him to heaven those who have died. He goes farther in the next verse to clarify the order of the resurrection:

1 thessalonians 4:15-16
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
I enjoyed your comment. It is very good but for perhaps a minor point or two which I choose not to make issue with right now.

I could have sworn I had seen 1 Corinthians 15:18 in your comment before I pressed 'reply.'

1 Corinthians 15:18 "Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." (KJV)

That verse clearly shows how Paul viewed and used that word, "perished", as in done, gone, finished, nothing left not even a resurrection.

And the Strong's Greek Dictionary backs that up. "Perished" at 1 Corinthians 15:18 is the Greek word, G0622 - "apollumi - from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively"

That is the same Greek word Peter used, here, as follows:

2 Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.." (KJV)

Clearly then those that died in the flood have no hope of a resurrection.

And Jude used that same Greek word for "perished" here, as follows:

Jude 1:11 "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core." (KJV)

I learned a while back that once one has hit on the correct understanding evidence in support of it just rolls in continually.

Thank you for tipping me off to that particular Greek word at 1 Corinthians 15:18
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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To say the soul goes to heaven before the resurrection would be the opposite of what Paul is saying:
Actually, to say that would be opposed to all that is revealed in Scripture - TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT.
 
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Buzz_B

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Wow, that amazes me!

Your post 69 was clear back Thursday at 2:30PM

I delete my shortcuts to pages as each page changes and know I had page six shortcut in place in my bookmarks. But my Eyes very clearly saw 1 Corinthian 15:18 and the word "perished" standing out so that it was the first thing my eyes were drawn to. At the same time it flashed in my mind that Paul was there showing his view of the word perished and that I had in the past seen other NT texts using that same word about people who had died. So then copied your quote to my desktop, placed the usual bracketed quote equals around it, and I exited out of my Inet Explorer for but about a half hour to research that word. I came back and clip and pasted your quote along with what I had wrote and I posted it. That was only 30 minutes later that I posted it and I did not notice that 1 Corinthians 15:18 was not even there until after, No it was just seconds before I posted it because I recall wondering how it could be missing in your quote on my desktop. That is why I added that I thought I had seen it in my post.

That blows my mind. But I have had it happen stranger ways before. :)

And I do not believe I am getting Alzheimer's because my memory works better today in my mid sixties than it ever did.

Since my fifties I have had verses shown to me in dreams that when I got up and looked for proved to answer questions which had been bothering me. And even had things shown to me in dreams that happened a short time later. I go to sleep talking with God and it is like he often waits until I am sleeping and dreaming to answer me. I am very weird lately!
 
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Marilyn C

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1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Hi David,

I was taught & I believe that v.24 indicates a `setting out for a conclusion.` In that setting out time we know that the Lord will be putting down all rule, authority and power. We read the details in other scriptures and see the Lord put down Satan & the fallen angels, (limiting them to earth in the trib,) then the World System and those rulers and leaders involved, then throughout the millennium rulership that is rebellious, till finally the Lord will abolish all rule and authority and power at the conclusion of the old earth. The last enemy we read is death.

Then and only then will Christ hand the kingdom/rulership over all realms to the Father so that God will be all in all.

It is a process as God`s word clearly reveals.

Marilyn.
 
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1stcenturylady

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1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Interestingly, verse 23 mentions nothing about the unsaved as well. But if we look at verse 25 and 26 though, the unsaved are clearly in mind there.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Verse 26 indicates that the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Obviously then, until Revelation 20:14 is fulfilled first, the fulfillment of 1 Corinthians 15:24 can't precede this. What needs to be detemined now, when is Revelation 20:14 meaning in relation to 1 Corinthians 15:23?

Let's consider Zechariah 14 for a moment.


Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


This is clearly meaning after the 2nd coming has occurred, and that these left of the nations couldn't possibly be blessed saints who have put on immortality. They have to be mortals then. No mortal person can live forever. This tells us that death has not yet been destroyed at this point, thus 1 Corinthians 15:24 has not yet been fulfilled.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.


This too is meaning after 1 Corinthians 15:23 has already been fulfilled. This verse also proves death has not yet been destroyed at this point.


So based on the above alone, isn't this enough to prove there has to be a gap between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24? What gap might explain it then? How about the thousand years and satan's little season? Which BTW, reminds me of the following.

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Let's do some comparing here.

that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth(Isaiah 24:21)

Compared with----


Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.-----the LORD shall punish the kings of the earth upon the earth(Isaiah 24:21)


Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit----the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high---And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison(Isaiah 24:21-22)

Obviously, if satan gets cast into the pit, so would his angels, thus these combined explain the 'they' in Isaiah 24:22.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever----and after many days shall they be visited(Isaiah 24:22)


Per a position such as Amil, they have no logical answer for this part----and after many days shall they be visited(Isaiah 24:22).

So with this now added to what I already submitted before this, how can there not be a gap between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24, and this gap not be the thousand years and satan's little season?

When Jesus comes is 23, then the MILLENNIUM, Christ's reign on earth, then 24.
 
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Truth7t7

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Hi David,

I was taught & I believe that v.24 indicates a `setting out for a conclusion.` In that setting out time we know that the Lord will be putting down all rule, authority and power. We read the details in other scriptures and see the Lord put down Satan & the fallen angels, (limiting them to earth in the trib,) then the World System and those rulers and leaders involved, then throughout the millennium rulership that is rebellious, till finally the Lord will abolish all rule and authority and power at the conclusion of the old earth. The last enemy we read is death.

Then and only then will Christ hand the kingdom/rulership over all realms to the Father so that God will be all in all.

It is a process as God`s word clearly reveals.

Marilyn.
It is a conclusion and process Matthew 24:24 "Then Cometh The End" Literally!

A big fire in judgment at the appearance/return of Jesus Christ, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by the Lord. 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Malachi 3:2, Nahum 1:5, Isaiah 24:20, 1 Corinthians 3:13

You don't want to see the fire judgment at the appearance of Jesus Christ :)

Your 1000 year earthly kingdom has just went up in smoke, literally!

Its not gonna change, Matthew 25:31-46 clearly teaches, when Jesus returns its final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, "Eternity Begins"!
 
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Truth7t7

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When Jesus comes is 23, then the MILLENNIUM, Christ's reign on earth, then 24.
No such thing as a 1000 year earthly kingdom found in scripture. At the return of Jesus Christ, the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom takes place, "Eternity Begins"! Matthew 25:31-46
 
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1stcenturylady

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No such thing as a 1000 year earthly kingdom found in scripture. At the return of Jesus Christ, the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom takes place, "Eternity Begins"! Matthew 25:31-46

So when is or was the 1000 years spoken of, and what was it for?
 
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Davy

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Yes, there is a gap of time in between the 23rd and 24th verses, because the 25 thru 28 verses are giving direct information of what all is contained within that verse 23-24 time period.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

Firstfruits of Christ's elect starting all the way back in the OT, to the end of this present world when Jesus returns.


24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The end will only come once Jesus has delivered up the Kingdom to God, the "when" given as "when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power", which means in absolute, literally; which is something we are NOT seeing yet here on earth today.


25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

Jesus is NOT reigning over the nations yet with the "rod of iron" prophesied in the Psalms. That's supposed to happen from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem, literally when He returns.


26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Satan is to be destroyed upon this earth, literally, a fire burning him from within, turning him to ashes upon the earth. That's OT prophecy. Go find it if you don't know it. God put Satan in charge of 'death' when Satan originally rebelled against Him. When Satan is destroyed along with the wicked that go into the "lake of fire", the concept of death will no longer exist. Per Rev.20, that does not happen until after... Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect saints.


27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, 'all things are put under Him', it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
KJV


Once that future thousand years reign by Christ Jesus is over, and Satan and the wicked are destroyed, then... Jesus will deliver up the Kingdom to The Father, and God will be all in all.
 
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Truth7t7

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Yes, there is a gap of time in between the 23rd and 24th verses, because the 25 thru 28 verses are giving direct information of what all is contained within that verse 23-24 time period.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

Firstfruits of Christ's elect starting all the way back in the OT, to the end of this present world when Jesus returns.


24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The end will only come once Jesus has delivered up the Kingdom to God, the "when" given as "when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power", which means in absolute, literally; which is something we are NOT seeing yet here on earth today.


25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

Jesus is NOT reigning over the nations yet with the "rod of iron" prophesied in the Psalms. That's supposed to happen from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem, literally when He returns.


26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Satan is to be destroyed upon this earth, literally, a fire burning him from within, turning him to ashes upon the earth. That's OT prophecy. Go find it if you don't know it. God put Satan in charge of 'death' when Satan originally rebelled against Him. When Satan is destroyed along with the wicked that go into the "lake of fire", the concept of death will no longer exist. Per Rev.20, that does not happen until after... Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect saints.


27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, 'all things are put under Him', it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
KJV


Once that future thousand years reign by Christ Jesus is over, and Satan and the wicked are destroyed, then... Jesus will deliver up the Kingdom to The Father, and God will be all in all.
Satan Will burn from within?

When the concept of death?
 
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1stcenturylady

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1000 is a representation of the eternal realm, no time in Lords spiritual. 2 Peter 3:8

I know the verse in Peter. It reminds me of Hosea 6:1-2. Here the Jews are scattered for 2 thousand years/2 days, and then with Christ for 1000 years/1 day.

Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

But not so in Revelation 20. Either Satan is only bound for one day, or this 1000 years is literal.

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
 
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Truth7t7

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I know verse in Peter. It reminds me of Hosea 6:1-2. Here the Jews are scattered for 2 thousand years/2 days, and then with Christ for 1000 years/1 day.

Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

But not so in Revelation 20. Either Satan is only bound for one day, or this 1000 years is literal.

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:1-7 Satan is bound from?

"One Specific Purpose" Deceving The Nations To The Final Battle.

This is clearly seen in Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7

This event of gathering the nations to battle will take place at the end of the future 42 month tribulation.

Jesus will return "immediately after the tribulation" Matthew 24:29-31

Jesus will return in fire judgment, dissolving this earth by fire. 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Malachi 3:2, Revelation 20:9
 
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