Is there salvation after death?

[Basil the Great]

This was not so prior to 421 AD.

Would you please elaborate?

 

[The Times]

Salvation has to incorporate the saviour into the equation. There can be no deliberation over a time of torment served after death, that can be used in addition to the justifying works of the cross and the sanctifying works of the Spirit.

To do so, places the torment of the individual on par with the Cross and the Spirit, as a cherry on top so to speak and this would be a preposterous political process, that belittles and undermines the gospel of Jesus Christ.

This would be why Jesus did not preach salvation after biological death, because there is no salvation to a complacent servant and a disloyal servant who dies in that state.

The state a servant dies in, will determine their fate and in this respect no one, not even the Church and their prayers can help that servant. Game over.

 

[The Times]

Would you please elaborate?

Sorry 431 AD, the Council of Ephesus.

Rome were instrumental in casting their stone in the schism of 431 AD.....

The Council of Ephesus was a council of Christian bishops convened in Ephesus (near present-day Selçuk in Turkey) in AD 431 by the Roman Emperor Theodosius II. This third ecumenical council, an effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom,[1] confirmed the original Nicene Creed,[2] and condemned the teachings of Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople, who held that the Virgin Mary may be called the Christotokos, "Birth Giver of Christ" but not the Theotokos, "Birth Giver of God". It met in June and July 431 at the Church of Mary in Ephesus in Anatolia.

From then on, pretty much every false doctrine entered the Church denominations.

The pagan Roman emperor made Mary the Birth Giver of God, to further continue their pagan practices of IHS......

Down hill from there onwards........

Matthew 24:24....... happened from 431 AD and onwards.......

 

[Basil the Great]

Those seem like unusual views for an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

 

[The Times]

Those seem like unusual views for an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

Try to trace back liturgy with history, you will discover that there is a divergence of doctrine from liturgy. The divergence I believe happened in 431AD.

The rat bag of Roman emperors dictated the terms and everyone else went along as conformant objectors, because they did not want happen to them what happened to the Church of the East, who were made an example as they were ostracized and falsely labeled the Nestorian Church.

 

[GracefulGalPal]

Yes... for those who want it. There are some in faith that don't want to have an afterlife. They simply want to sleep when they die. Me and my mother want an afterlife together so we will get one when we face God. Only he can decide whether we shall get life after the Reaper gives our souls to him.

 

[ClementofA]

Babies who never were born obviously cannot be saved in any manner that applies to the rest of us,

Why not?

although there is now a widespread feeling that God must have a place for infants who die before being baptised; and Purgatory has nothing to do with second chances. The theory of Purgatory holds that it is only for those who are already among the saved.

The definition i used of "purgatory (or the like)" for the unsaved in the afterlife obviously necessitated it being in reference to the unsaved.

Amongst many in the early church & early church fathers there was a belief in afterlife purgation of the lost.

 

[ClementofA]

Matthew 12:32

“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”

This addresses one sin, but how does it address every other sin or what happens to all who die in sin in the afterlife?

The previous verse says:

So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Mt.12:31

IOW all those who die in sin (blasphemy of the HS excepted) shall be forgiven. So there is afterlife salvation.

For more comments on this passage, see the thread topic:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

 

[Anguspure]

Is there salvation after death?

To which death do you refer?
IMO Those who are in righteous relatioship with Christ Jesus are promised ressurection to eternal life following the first death. Bit for those who are not a ressurection to judgement and then the 2nd death awaits. The 2nd death is eternal destruction.

 

[Anguspure]

First we ought to define salvation according to the Biblical definition of the term salvation.....

“The deliverance, by the grace of God, from eternal punishment for sin which is granted to those who accept by faith God’s conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.”

Salvation is tied directly to the saviour, Jesus Christ.

What did Jesus say.....

Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. (Revelation 2:10)

Faith must therefore be demonstratable before death.

Faith in whom?

Jesus Christ.

So we must be faithful and loyal to Jesus, even onto death, in order to qualify for the crown of eternal life.

Are there cases that Jesus presented of once servants, that is Christians, not being able to qualify for the crown of eternal life?

Well, let us look to what Jesus said.....

Matthew 24:48-51
48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Can a Christian be complacent in faith?

Absolutely!

Can a Christian turn to wickedness?

Off course!

Will Jesus do to that Christian, whose day and hour comes at his/her death, what he said he will do?

Absolutely!

Is there salvation after death for a complacent and wicked Christian, who continues his/her lifestyle onto their death?

Scripture and the words of Jesus clearly highlight that those who do not remain vigilant in faith and loyal to the saviour, even onto their death will not qualify for the crown of eternal life.

Again....is there salvation after death?

Yes, for the vigilant in faith and loyal to Jesus and No to the complacent in faith and disloyal to Jesus.

Jesus has the final words......

Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed. (Revelation 16:15)

Being awake, is to be vigilant in faith.
Keeping your cloths, is to be loyal to the saviour.

Shame, is a result of eternal loss, when the servant is forever separated from his saviour.

Is there salvation after death?

Well, if people follow another religion called Universalism or Unitarianism, then they will negate the saviour out of the equation of salvation and that is exactly what both these antithesis religions do.

There is only one issue here and it is the use of the word "must" in "must be demonstrable".
Clearly the evidence of a close relationship with God is in accordance with the fruit of the Spirit.
But to imply a compulsion that is not motivated by a free will responding to the Love of Christ is not what our Lord has in mind.

 

[salt-n-light]

Nope. After the judgment you referred to, the saved go to Purgatory before going on to Heaven, while the damned go to Hell.

Nothing the soul in Purgatory can do will appeal the sentence or its severity or length. And there is no appealing the judgment.

The only thing possible is for those of us still living to say certain appointed prayers or perform certain acts that carry merit with them (including Masses), as stipulated by the church, and offer them up for souls in Purgatory so their time there may be shortened.

Why would the saved still serve jail time, if they are saved from having the sentence? Its like Jesus conquer sin for me to be free, whats the hold-up, lol?Death is the final enemy we overcome (1 Corinthians 15:26), what more would there be to overcome?

 

[The Times]

.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, of course,
for all those saved before death who do not lose their salvation b4 they die.

If someone is not saved when they sleep/ die/ , then there is no hope at all, ever.

(unless they get 'resurrected' "b4" the resurrection (die and are raised from the dead somehow, as happens more often in china than anywhere else ever heard of) ==== perhaps then , but never established at all in YHWH'S WORD)...

I agree,

However, as before, we have argued about the ability of someone to lose their salvation. This is not the topic of this thread though.

One you die...your fate is sealed... IMO.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes it does, very clearly. See last quote below.

That is correct for everyone who doesn't know.
The answer is clear in Scripture as noted >>

Great post,

As there are no "atheists in a fox hole"... there will be no Unbelievers 1 millisecond after they die.

 

[JacksBratt]

Missionaries who have visited Africa and China have for centuries reported the routine raising people from the dead (often after several days in the morgue/ observed/ hospitals/ i.e. really dead) by devil worshipers as well as (less often) by followers of Jesus.

p.s. oh, btw, no 'bait'.
More like salt. (Truth, Alive, Reality, YHWH'S Revelation Active and Real and True in and for His people, Jews first, then for the gentiles too)

I have heard these stories. Not only from this place in the world but even in the west.
They are called Near Death Experiences (NDE) and although they are rare.. there is enough of them to open a small window into the after life...

In the past, it was hard to get some of the people who experienced negative events in an NDE to talk about them as they were so horrific, they forgot slowly after they returned to this life, they doubted the reality of them, or they were embarrassed of their experience due to what it said about their character.

One thing is certain.... the majority of the people who experience a NDE are changed for life after them.

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't see a time limit put on salvation there.

It says nothing to deny after death salvation to those who die in their sins.

"...it doesn't say what most evangelizers of hopelessness want it to say in that regard either."

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

What about the whole salvation is through faith... If you die and the afterlife is opened to you, as it was to the rich man and Lazarus..... it would be impossible to have "faith" for faith is belief in something you are not sure of... those, after death, will be well aware of their fate that awaits them... they will no longer have the luxury of faith for they will have full knowledge.

 

[Albion]

This would be a preposterous deduction to make, because it would imply that even after the cross of Christ, there is still a game of politics being played out and that the cross of Christ and the Holy Spirit as the guarantee to what is to come, is not part of that equation of politcal ramblings.

You sincerely must have the Creator confused with the political ploys of the enemy who still aims at imprisoning and poisoning the minds of those, of the Cross of Christ and the Holy Spirit justified and sanctified in this temporal life.

I beg your pardon! I several times explained that I do not believe in Purgatory and I do not believe that there is a Scriptura basis for Purgatory BUT I was correcting some misconceptions you posted concerning the Catholic Church's teaching about Purgatory.

 

[JacksBratt]

One doesn't have to be a universalist to believe babies get born again after being killed by abortion. Or that there is a purgatory (or the like) where the unsaved may have a first or second chance for salvation.

Of course aborted babies will have salvation. Any infant, child or even adult who never reaches an age or maturity where they would be accountable for what sins they have committed, will have salvation.

What kind of God, who has been described by His own words as being "LOVE" would damn any soul to hell if it had no concept of ever committing a sin or any concept of right or wrong.

 

[JacksBratt]

Purgatory is after post biological death, post Judgement decision, in reducing the sentence and its severity, for that is what the action of penance does, as power attorney on behalf of the individual serving in purgatory, who is appealing for clemency against the decision that has already been made by the righteous Judge.

It is an appeal against the Rigtheous Judge and his after the fact decision.

It's also a figment of someones imagination.
Purgatory is totally non scriptural and, IMO anti Gospel.

 

[Albion]

Amongst many in the early church & early church fathers there was a belief in afterlife purgation of the lost.

But not of a Purgatory. Indeed, of all the doctrines that are based on "Tradition" more than on Scripture, Purgatory may be the shakiest of all. That's because we know for a fact that the first Christians thought that the Second Coming would occur immanently. The idea of a Purgatory would have made no sense given that scenario.