Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

[Bible Highlighter]

Exceptions to the rule? I have yet to see the passages that detail these exceptions. Why not just come out and say you believe there are multiple paths to salvation? You've just admitted works are not necessary for salvation.

In certain cases... "yes." But if we are to live out our faith.... then... "no."
Unless of course you think we can be murdering rapists and lazy drunkards for Jesus or something. I do not see that taught as a part of the faith within the New Testament.

 

[SeventyOne]

In certain cases... "yes." But if we are to live out our faith.... then... "no."
Unless of course you think we can be murdering rapists and lazy drunkards for Jesus or something. I do not see that taught as a part of the faith within the New Testament.

Never seen the passages that talk about the "certain cases" and what defines them. Where are they?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, I highly doubt the thief on the cross who was saved was planning on continuing his life as a thief, either. For he admitted his sin or wrong doing towards God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Never seen the passages that talk about the "certain cases" and what defines them. Where are they?

The Bible shows that the thief on the cross was saved (Which means this is a special case).
The Bible shows that when babies die, they are saved (Which is a special case).
The Bible shows that a person who lives out their faith will bring forth works as a part of their salvation (See the verses in my second post within this thread).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are two kinds of people.

#1. Folks who are looking to justify doing the wrong doing.
#2. Folks who are looking to do the right thing.

Doing the right thing will lead one to accept Christ and to do good works for Him whereby they will turn away from sin and fight against it with the power of the Lord with a pure heart in honestly of reading the Scriptures plainly.

 

[Anguspure]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Yes. This is true (according to the Bible); For we see clearly that holiness (Ephesians 5:25-27) and works (Titus 2:14) is a natural by-product of God's grace. Paul was talking about the works of the Law of Moses (because he referred to circumcision many times - Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 5:2), and not the works of Faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Paul was not condemning all forms of works or works as a part of the salvation process (after God's grace), but he was condemning "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. This is why Paul says if it is by works it is no more grace. Surely if salvation was exclusively alone by works, we would all be doomed. For all men have sinned and they need a Savior to wipe out their past record of sin. We have to understand that Paul was talking to the Jews who rejected their Messiah when he said grace is no more grace if it is of works (Romans 11:6 cf. Romans 11:1). The Jews rejected God's grace and their Messiah. One of the points that Jesus made with the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is that he was condemning the Pharisee's false religion of trying to be saved by works alone without God's grace because the Pharisee did not cry out unto God to have mercy on his own life. The Pharisee was also not concerned in helping the Tax Collector in overcoming his sin, either. He was just seeking to condemn the poor guy. However, what you will not find in the Bible is a verse saying that God's grace + obedience to Him is not a part of His salvation. In fact, the very Fall of Adam and Eve was an act of disobedience. In fact, the first lie in the Garden by Satan to Eve was, "Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4). This same lie is being pushed today. You can disobey God's laws and not die. So obedience (works and holiness) plays a part in our salvation after we repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved (i.e. God's grace).

Not that they must (in the sense of telling a person what they have to do), but that they will. True saving faith is not something that can easily be faked, rather the evidence of our salvation is in the works that we do. A pure spring only brings forth pure and refreshing water, whereas a polluted spring cannot.

 

[SeventyOne]

The Bible shows that the thief on the cross was saved (Which means this is a special case).
The Bible shows that when babies die, they are saved (Which is a special case).
The Bible shows that a person who lives out their faith will bring forth works as a part of their salvation (See the verses in my second post within this thread).

Sorry, where are the passages that spell out these special cases?

All I see are assumptions from descriptive texts.

 

[Tayla]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

The Catholic Church considers works as an essential ingredient of true faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul teaches that Salvation is "not of works", but that works are "of salvation" ....

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

That would appear to agree with your TOPIC position.

I believe Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about "Initial salvation" and not "Continued Salvation" because:

#1. Ephesians 2:1 says, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;"
#2. Ephesians 2:13 says, "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." (cf. with Ephesians 2:11-12).
#3. Ephesians 3:17 says, "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"

We see Paul say elsewhere that works are necessary for continued salvation after we are saved by God's grace (See Romans 2:8-11, Titus 1:16, 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Philippians 2:12, etc.).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry, where are the passages that spell out these special cases?

All I see are assumptions from descriptive texts.

Really? How many beliefs do you have in the Bible where people say the same thing for you? Also, do you think the thief on the cross was not saved? Do you think babies who die are not saved? Do you think a believer can be an axe murdering rapist and still be saved?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Catholic Church considers works as an essential ingredient of true faith.

Good for them. I am glad they got that part of Scripture correct. It does not mean I believe in the rest of what they believe; And it does not mean I am Catholic. Catholics also believe in the Trinity (Which is a doctrine I also believe in). Does that mean you are Catholic because you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, too? Surely not. So let's stick with Scripture here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Never seen the passages that talk about the "certain cases" and what defines them. Where are they?

Do you think believers can be murdering rapists? I didn't get an answer on that one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not that they must (in the sense of telling a person what they have to do), but that they will. True saving faith is not something that can easily be faked, rather the evidence of our salvation is in the works that we do. A pure spring only brings forth pure and refreshing water, whereas a polluted spring cannot.

So works are necessary to prove they are saved; Meaning, they need works to be saved then. Right?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not that they must (in the sense of telling a person what they have to do), but that they will. True saving faith is not something that can easily be faked, rather the evidence of our salvation is in the works that we do. A pure spring only brings forth pure and refreshing water, whereas a polluted spring cannot.

How about... can a believer abide in sin (like murder, adultery, rape, theft, etc.) and still be saved while doing such sins?

 

[SeventyOne]

Do you think believers can be murdering rapists? I didn't get an answer on that one.

You first. You claimed the thief was a special case, then gave a reason why it was a special case. I just want to know what passage you got that reason from.

 

[Anguspure]

How about... can a believer abide in sin (like murder, adultery, rape, theft, etc.) and still be saved while doing such sins?

The evidence of their saving faith (or the lack thereof, is before us (BTW I type this with a trembling heart because my spring is also polluted). It is by faith in Christ Jesus that we are saved, but "faith" without works is dead.

 

[mukk_in]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Yes. This is true (according to the Bible); For we see clearly that holiness (Ephesians 5:25-27) and works (Titus 2:14) is a natural by-product of God's grace. Paul was talking about the works of the Law of Moses (because he referred to circumcision many times - Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 5:2), and not the works of Faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Paul was not condemning all forms of works or works as a part of the salvation process (after God's grace), but he was condemning "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. This is why Paul says if it is by works it is no more grace. Surely if salvation was exclusively alone by works, we would all be doomed. For all men have sinned and they need a Savior to wipe out their past record of sin. We have to understand that Paul was talking to the Jews who rejected their Messiah when he said grace is no more grace if it is of works (Romans 11:6 cf. Romans 11:1). The Jews rejected God's grace and their Messiah. One of the points that Jesus made with the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is that he was condemning the Pharisee's false religion of trying to be saved by works alone without God's grace because the Pharisee did not cry out unto God to have mercy on his own life. The Pharisee was also not concerned in helping the Tax Collector in overcoming his sin, either. He was just seeking to condemn the poor guy. However, what you will not find in the Bible is a verse saying that God's grace + obedience to Him is not a part of His salvation. In fact, the very Fall of Adam and Eve was an act of disobedience. In fact, the first lie in the Garden by Satan to Eve was, "Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4). This same lie is being pushed today. You can disobey God's laws and not die. So obedience (works and holiness) plays a part in our salvation after we repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved (i.e. God's grace).

Great post Jason. May I add the book of James as well. Happy Christmas .

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You first. You claimed the thief was a special case, then gave a reason why it was a special case. I just want to know what passage you got that reason from.

Are you saying you don't know of the piece of Scripture I am talking about?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Great post Jason. May I add the book of James as well. Happy Christmas .

Thank you.

May God bless you.

 

[Anguspure]

So works are necessary to prove they are saved; Meaning, they need works to be saved then. Right?

No, they need Faith. It is an observation that a person with faith in Christ Jesus and His Spirit will do things that reflect their faith. The observation is not a rule to be followed, rather it is an observation of a necessary causal link between who a person is in trusting relationship with and the works they will exhibit. But it is God alone who judges what works reflect true daving faith because He alone see's the heart.