Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

[Bible Highlighter]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Yes. This is true (according to the Bible); For we see clearly that holiness (Ephesians 5:25-27) and works (Titus 2:14) is a natural by-product of God's grace. Paul was talking about the works of the Law of Moses (because he referred to circumcision many times - Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 5:2), and not the works of Faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Paul was not condemning all forms of works or works as a part of the salvation process (after God's grace), but he was condemning "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. This is why Paul says if it is by works it is no more grace. Surely if salvation was exclusively alone by works, we would all be doomed. For all men have sinned and they need a Savior to wipe out their past record of sin. We have to understand that Paul was talking to the Jews who rejected their Messiah when he said grace is no more grace if it is of works (Romans 11:6 cf. Romans 11:1). The Jews rejected God's grace and their Messiah. One of the points that Jesus made with the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is that he was condemning the Pharisee's false religion of trying to be saved by works alone without God's grace because the Pharisee did not cry out unto God to have mercy on his own life. The Pharisee was also not concerned in helping the Tax Collector in overcoming his sin, either. He was just seeking to condemn the poor guy. However, what you will not find in the Bible is a verse saying that God's grace + obedience to Him is not a part of His salvation. In fact, the very Fall of Adam and Eve was an act of disobedience. In fact, the first lie in the Garden by Satan to Eve was, "Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4). This same lie is being pushed today. You can disobey God's laws and not die. So obedience (works and holiness) plays a part in our salvation after we repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved (i.e. God's grace).

But what about Ephesians 2:8-9?

Are we not saved by grace through faith without works? Yes, this is true. However, this is talking about "Initial Salvation" (See Ephesians 2:1, Ephesians 2:11-13, Ephesians 3:17). Also, grace through faith is how we are "ultimately saved", as well. For if we sin, do we go out and do another "good work" to get clean? No. We confess our sins in order to be forgiven and or get clean again (See 1 John 1:9). But good works and holiness follows God's grace. For if we walk in the light as he [Christ] is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (See 1 John 1:7).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Scripture that suggest that works and or holiness is required as a part of our salvation after we are saved by God's grace:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).
“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22) (KJ21).
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).

 

[Ken Rank]

Somebody in our congregation stood up the other day and said, "it occurred to me recently that we are not saved by our works... but others are." He is correct... God uses us to reach out to others (that is works) and thus He uses our works to draw others to Him. So where we might not be saved by our works, without our works others will not be discipled and learn to walk in God's ways.

 

[A_Thinker]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Paul teaches that Salvation is "not of works", but that works are "of salvation" ....

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

That would appear to agree with your TOPIC position.

 

[pilgrimage]

Works are performed in obedience within the heart according to the law of the spirit but not according to the law of the letter.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Before Christ, man's carnal nature's righteousness was as filthy rags.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine-dresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

Note verse 2 talks of those IN CHRIST who do not bear fruit are damned. Why? Doesn't God's grace cover our sins? Christ died for us before we came to Him even though we did nothing to deserve His sacrifice. That grace is unmerited favor. False beliefs in the Church about grace is the mis-step, believing grace is still unmerited favor AFTER Christ has given us His power. This is the grace of a believer - the power of the Holy Spirit, making us dead to sin and not in the flesh. But we must walk in the Spirit, and not revert back to the flesh. But the power of the Holy Spirit makes that burden, light. Our whole set of desires is to love what God loves, and hate what God hates. And as we continue to walk in the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit become manifest in our lives and ripen.

 

[Soyeong]

Works are performed in obedience within the heart according to the law of the spirit but not according to the law of the letter.

The distinction between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law is not in regard to whether we are to obey what God has commanded, but in regard to the manner in which we are to obey what He has commanded, with respect to the intent behind the command, which is to teach us how to walk in God's ways and to thereby grow in a relationship with Him based on faith in love.

 

[pilgrimage]

The distinction between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law is not in regard to whether we are to obey what God has commanded, but in regard to the manner in which we are to obey what He has commanded, with respect to the intent behind the command, which is to teach us how to walk in God's ways and to thereby grow in a relationship with Him based on faith in love.

That's what I said.

 

[Soyeong]

Before Christ, man's carnal nature's righteousness was as filthy rags.

At no point does the Bible ever describe seeking to do what is righteous in obedience to God's commands as being carnal. In Galatians 5:19-21, all of the works of flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's Law, and in Romans 8:4-7, it the carnal mind that refuses to submit to God's Law in contrast with walking in the Spirit. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God describing our works as filthy rags, but rather it was the people complaining about how they were perceiving that God viewed their works. God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then show disdain for them when we seek to obey Him, but rather the reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Romans 19:8).

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine-dresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

Note verse 2 talks of those IN CHRIST who do not bear fruit are damned. Why? Doesn't God's grace cover our sins? Christ died for us before we came to Him even though we did nothing to deserve His sacrifice. That grace is unmerited favor. False beliefs in the Church about grace is the mis-step, believing grace is still unmerited favor AFTER Christ has given us His power. This is the grace of a believer - the power of the Holy Spirit, making us dead to sin and not in the flesh. But we must walk in the Spirit, and not revert back to the flesh. But the power of the Holy Spirit makes that burden, light. Our whole set of desires is to love what God loves, and hate what God hates. And as we continue to walk in the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit become manifest in our lives and ripen.

Agreed.

 

[1stcenturylady]

At no point does the Bible ever describe seeking to do what is righteous in obedience to God's commands as being carnal. In Galatians 5:19-21, all of the works of flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's Law, and in Romans 8:4-7, it the carnal mind that refuses to submit to God's Law in contrast with walking in the Spirit. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God describing our works as filthy rags, but rather it was the people complaining about how they were perceiving that God viewed their works. God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then show disdain for them when we seek to obey Him, but rather the reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Romans 19:8).



Agreed.

Isaiah 64:6 says "But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

Man has no power in himself to be righteous. Only through Christ are we able - God in us. If righteousness came through the law, there would have been no need for Christ to die.

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

 

[Soyeong]

Isaiah 64:6 says "But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

Man has no power in himself to be righteous. Only through Christ are we able - God in us. If righteousness came through the law, there would have been no need for Christ to die.

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

I agree that the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith and not by our own effort, but that is not what Isaiah 64:6 is speaking about. The people were wanting God to come down and make his presence known as He had done in the past, but now He has hidden His face from them and their land is desolate. So again, it is the people complaining about why God is not act on their behalf, not about how they can't be justified through their own effort.

 

[pilgrimage]

Romans 5:1-5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

1 Peter 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,

in a dream I saw Jesus with eyes as blue as in that video. Could be that it was the gentile blood in him?

The verse from Peter explains the growth within from obeying the word.

 

[JIMINZ]

If your saying that we must Believe in Jesus for the Forgiveness of Sins, and do good works before we are Saved. Then "NO" we don't.

It's by Faith, not by works.

BUT.

Eph. 2:10
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The good works come after our Salvation, they are an outward sign of our Salvation, which we have been ordained to do, meaning the Saved person WILL have good works.

BUT

Our Salvation is not coupled with good works in order to receive Salvation.

 

[JIMINZ]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

.
YES

 

[redleghunter]

Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Yes. This is true (according to the Bible); For we see clearly that holiness (Ephesians 5:25-27) and works (Titus 2:14) is a natural by-product of God's grace. Paul was talking about the works of the Law of Moses (because he referred to circumcision many times - Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 5:2), and not the works of Faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Paul was not condemning all forms of works or works as a part of the salvation process (after God's grace), but he was condemning "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. This is why Paul says if it is by works it is no more grace. Surely if salvation was exclusively alone by works, we would all be doomed. For all men have sinned and they need a Savior to wipe out their past record of sin. We have to understand that Paul was talking to the Jews who rejected their Messiah when he said grace is no more grace if it is of works (Romans 11:6 cf. Romans 11:1). The Jews rejected God's grace and their Messiah. One of the points that Jesus made with the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is that he was condemning the Pharisee's false religion of trying to be saved by works alone without God's grace because the Pharisee did not cry out unto God to have mercy on his own life. The Pharisee was also not concerned in helping the Tax Collector in overcoming his sin, either. He was just seeking to condemn the poor guy. However, what you will not find in the Bible is a verse saying that God's grace + obedience to Him is not a part of His salvation. In fact, the very Fall of Adam and Eve was an act of disobedience. In fact, the first lie in the Garden by Satan to Eve was, "Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4). This same lie is being pushed today. You can disobey God's laws and not die. So obedience (works and holiness) plays a part in our salvation after we repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved (i.e. God's grace).

Good day Jason.

I think the centerpiece would be the following:

2 Corinthians 5: KJV

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It is His ministry of reconciliation which points us in His direction. As we grow in maturity and intimacy in Christ Jesus the more this becomes apparent. Especially in the difficult and trying times.

I would also add the following:

Ephesians 2: KJV

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Always remembering we deserve nothing and cannot do anything without Him (John 15:5). Such a humbling path we have as manifestly born again by His Grace alone.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

.
YES

The thief on the cross would beg to differ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The thief on the cross would beg to differ.

There are exceptions to the rule (of course).
People who accept Christ before they die would not count as having to bring forth works because they did not have a chance to live out their faith. Also, babies who die are automatically saved by God's grace, as well. But we were are not talking about special cases whereby works cannot be applied to such individuals. For works follow God's grace for those who LIVE out their faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good day Jason.

I think the centerpiece would be the following:

2 Corinthians 5: KJV

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It is His ministry of reconciliation which points us in His direction. As we grow in maturity and intimacy in Christ Jesus the more this becomes apparent. Especially in the difficult and trying times.

I would also add the following:

Ephesians 2: KJV

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Always remembering we deserve nothing and cannot do anything without Him (John 15:5). Such a humbling path we have as manifestly born again by His Grace alone.

I don't have a problem with one posting these pieces of Scripture (as long as they are not posting them thinking that they are teaching a sin and still be saved type belief).

Note: When I say "sin and still be saved," I am talking about those who think that they are still saved even while they sin. Meaning, a believer can lie, cheat, steal, watch porn, etc. and still be saved while doing so.

 

[JIMINZ]

The thief on the cross would beg to differ.

.
True, and there are always exception to the rule, and he was a very extreme exception.

 

[SeventyOne]

There are exceptions to the rule (of course).
People who accept Christ before they die would not count as having to bring forth works because they did not have a chance to live out their faith. Also, babies who die are automatically saved by God's grace, as well. But we were are not talking about special cases whereby works cannot be applied to such individuals. For works follow God's grace for those who LIVE out their faith.

.
True, and there are always exception to the rule, and he was a very extreme exception.

Exceptions to the rule? I have yet to see the passages that detail these exceptions. Why not just come out and say you believe there are multiple paths to salvation? You've just admitted works are not necessary for salvation.