Millennial Considerations

[DavidPT]

It is you who is attempting to ignore where the beast is now...


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.




.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Compared with----


Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


Clearly not the same events being depicted. satan is not being loosed out of the pit in Revelation 9 in order to hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. That would be contradicting what Jesus once said---a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. If we look at the pit opening in Revelation 20, the goals of satan are entirely different than the goals during the 5th trumpet. Nothing remotely matches, therefore two different timeframes are in mind.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Compared with----


Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


Clearly not the same events being depicted. satan is not being loosed out of the pit in Revelation 9 in order to hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. That would be contradicting what Jesus once said---a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. If we look at the pit opening in Revelation 20, the goals of satan are entirely different than the goals during the 5th trumpet. Nothing remotely matches, therefore two different timeframes are in mind.

Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 same event.

Satan is currently bound and sealed from one specific purpose?

Revelation 16:12-17 shows perfectly the deception of devils, that go forth to the leaders of the world in deceiving them to battle.

Can Satan currently perform this? "No"

Sealed From One Specific Purpose

"Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle"

 

[seventysevens]

Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 same event.

Satan is currently bound and sealed from one specific purpose?

Revelation 16:12-17 shows perfectly the deception of devils, that go forth to the leaders of the world in deceiving them to battle.

Can Satan currently perform this? "No"

Sealed For One Specific Purpose "Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle"

Satan is free to roam the world right now , he will not be bound until Jesus returns

 

[Stephen Mendes]

Amazing ! ...... you all have REALLY been busy !

we are down to #284 already ..... in less than one day..... this is growing faster than the Bitcoin !

I tried to read and digest everything since my last visit but my head is spinning..... so you can imagine the confusion that must be reigning in the minds of our many readers.

CONFUSED..... that's the keyword that comes to mind when I reading the Amil's explanations ...... Amil's really need to sit down and get a coherent synopsis of the doctrine and the timeline that somehow manages to reconcile all prophetic utterances with the Revelation...... but can they ?...... and even now, Amil's are disagreeing with each other (check post #246).

One of the reasons that Amil's come to all these different points of view is because they have no firm foundation..... no agreed method of scriptural exegesis.

Mark my words..... I have said before.... once you go down the road of arbitrary 'creative interpretation' to 'make' the verses agree.... you are going to be CONTINUALLY 'fighting fires' (new verses 'popping up' and needing to be 'creatively interpreted' to 'fit the framework' you are trying to build).

This is not the methodology of Premil..... FIRST we create a simple set of rules for analyzing scriptural text ..... we believe the text was written to be understood by humans and so we take it the way we would take any other text on the planet.....UNLESS... in the event that the CONTEXT reveals that this approach cannot be correct for that particular part.... then we use genuine common sense (of which most people have an adequate measure) to assist with RECONCILIATION but at no time are we willing to throw out the entire thing (a vast amount of plain straightforward interpretation) just to 'accommodate' a couple of verses that do not 'seem to fit'...... rather we examine those verses closer to see if there is an acceptable way to explain them in the light of the vast body of other revealed truth..... we firmly believe that the Bible is accurate, so it is US that are at fault if we are having a problem with a couple of verses..... if at the end of the day there are certain verses that we are not sure about ..... we can ADMIT that we do not know for sure what they mean at this time... it is both a sign of honesty and humility.... the Disciples did not understand everything that Jesus said to them BUT this did not stop them from worshiping Him and moving forward with His work.

Amil's have always been on the defensive with their weird, UNSUPPORTABLE beliefs that are not found in scripture ..... and this is why they come up with all these strange interpretations that nobody but themselves would possibly be able to 'fathom' let alone accept or believe.

The classic Premil approach is both sound and logical so it leads to reliable, repeatable conclusions and a certain amount of unity among it's proponents.

As I continue to repeat..... the Amil proponents represent disunity, confusion and a plethora of 'creative interpretations' that no one could fathom unless they are another Amil.

What is particularly distressing is their character assassination of other men of God..... and their disdain of rigorous scholarship..... we have evidence of that right on this thread..... the unnecessary vilification of both the Lion and Lamb Ministries and the Dallas Theological Seminary simply because they dare to do an objective analysis of Amil..... and the unacceptable personal character assassination of Scofield..... I am not entirely convinced that he was the scoundrel that they make him out to be on Wikipedia, Youtube and elsewhere online..... but if he has a closet of personal sins so have many other Biblical characters that did God's work in the Bible...... and he literally died working on the Bible because of the size and scope of such an undertaking , he pushed himself into ill health and would not give up..... moreover, many other dedicated men of God have poured over his work and have not identified the 'heresy' he is accused of.... and finally the Scofield Bible has been a blessing in the lives of countless Christians and God has used it in the discipling of numerous missionaries, Christian workers, evangelists and pastors.... there is every reason why Satan would want to discredit it and vilify the contents by casting aspersions at the creator of it.

This 'confusion within the Amil camp' has been documented by research and even confessed to by some of the Amil writers themselves !

..... and we are witnessing it first hand..... right before our eyes in this thread..... and as another writer has observed ..... it is to be expected.

However God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:23)

 

[Truth7t7]

Amazing ! ...... you all have REALLY busy !

we are down to #284 already ..... in less than one day..... this is growing faster than the Bitcoin !

I tried to read and digest everything since my last visit but my head is spinning..... so you can imagine the confusion that must be reigning in the minds of our many readers.

CONFUSED..... that's the keyword that comes to mind when I reading the Amil's explanations ...... Amil's really need to sit down and get a coherent synopsis of the doctrine and the timeline that somehow manages to reconcile all prophetic utterances with the Revelation...... but can they ?...... and even now, Amil's are disagreeing with each other (check post #246).

One of the reasons that Amil's come to all these different points of view is because they have no firm foundation..... no agreed method of scriptural exegesis.

Mark my words..... I have said before.... once you go down the road of arbitrary 'creative interpretation' to 'make' the verses agree.... you are going to be CONTINUALLY 'fighting fires' (new verses 'popping up' and needing to be 'creatively interpreted' to 'fit the framework' you are trying to build).

This is not the methodology of Premil..... FIRST we create a simple set of rules for analyzing scriptural text ..... we believe the text was written to be understood by humans and so we take it the way we would take any other text on the planet.....UNLESS... in the event that the CONTEXT reveals that this approach cannot be correct for that particular part.... then we use genuine common sense (of which most people have an adequate measure) to assist with RECONCILIATION but at no time are we willing to throw out the entire thing (a vast amount of plain straightforward interpretation) just to 'accommodate' a couple of verses that do not 'seem to fit'...... rather we examine those verses closer to see if there is an acceptable way to explain them in the light of the vast body of other revealed truth..... we firmly believe that the Bible is accurate, so it is US that are at fault if we are having a problem with a couple of verses..... if at the end of the day there are certain verses that we are not sure about ..... we can ADMIT that we do not know for sure what they mean at this time... it is both a sign of honesty and humility.... the Disciples did not understand everything that Jesus said to them BUT this did not stop them from worshiping Him and moving forward with His work.

Amil's have always been on the defensive with their weird, UNSUPPORTABLE beliefs that are not found in scripture ..... and this is why they come up with all these strange interpretations that nobody but themselves would possibly be able to 'fathom' let alone accept or believe.

The classic Premil approach is both sound and logical so it leads to reliable, repeatable conclusions and a certain amount of unity among it's proponents.

As I continue to repeat..... the Amil proponents represent disunity, confusion and a plethora of 'creative interpretations' that no one could fathom unless they are another Amil.

What is particularly distressing is their character assassination of other men of God..... and their disdain of rigorous scholarship..... we have evidence of that right on this thread..... the unnecessary vilification of both the Lion and Lamb Ministries and the Dallas Theological Seminary simply because they dare to do an objective analysis of Amil..... and the unacceptable personal character assassination of Scofield..... I am not entirely convinced that he was the scoundrel that they make him out to be on Wikipedia, Youtube and elsewhere online..... but if he has a closet of personal sins so have many other Biblical characters that did God's work in the Bible...... and he literally died working on the Bible because of the size and scope of such an undertaking , he pushed himself into ill health and would not give up..... moreover, many other dedicated men of God have poured over his work and have not identified the 'heresy' he is accused of.... and finally the Scofield Bible has been a blessing in the lives of countless Christians and God has used it in the discipling of numerous missionaries, Christian workers, evangelists and pastors.... there is every reason why Satan would want to discredit it and vilify the contents by casting aspersions at the creator of it.

This 'confusion within the Amil camp' has been documented by research and even confessed to by some of the Amil writers themselves !

..... and we are witnessing it first hand..... right before our eyes in this thread..... and as another writer has observed ..... it is to be expected.

However God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:23)

Whole bunch of writing for being busy, stating your leaving until after the new year.

Scofield died in adultery, being married to Hettie Van Wark, while his lawful wife Leotine and two daughters lived.

The Scofield notes were produced out of this adulterous relationship, with Hettie Van Wark being secretary to these notes.

The Scofield reference notes are worth nothing more than kindling for the fire.

Impossible to obtain good fruit from a corrupt tree, C.I. Scofield & Hettie Van Wark "Corrupt Trees" Matthew 7:18

The plain & simple Truth!

 

[Marilyn C]

That's already happened.

Mmm scripture says differently -

`For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES.` (Eph. 6: 12)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 same event.

Satan is currently bound and sealed.....

Mmm scripture says differently -

`For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES.` (Eph. 6: 12)

Marilyn.

 

[Truth7t7]

Mmm scripture says differently -

`For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES.` (Eph. 6: 12)

Marilyn.

Mmmmm I Disagree

Satan is currently bound from one specific purpose.

"Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle"

Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9

 

[Stephen Mendes]

Mmmmm I Disagree

Satan is currently bound from one specific purpose.

"Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle"

Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9

Binding for a specific purpose ?

I admit is creative and ingenious..... bound but not bound all at the same time.... wow

Did you make that up yourself ? Did you learn it along with the rest of the Amil doctrine ? could it have come from 'you know who' ?

Just wondering.....

 

[Stephen Mendes]

Whole bunch of writing for being busy, stating your leaving until after the new year.

Scofield died in adultery, being married to Hettie Van Wark, while his lawful wife Leotine and two daughters lived.

The Scofield notes were produced out of this adulterous relationship, with Hettie Van Wark being secretary to these notes.

The Scofield reference notes are worth nothing more than kindling for the fire.

Impossible to obtain good fruit from a corrupt tree, C.I. Scofield & Hettie Van Wark "Corrupt Trees" Matthew 7:18

The plain & simple Truth!

David committed adultery and murder yet he was a man after God's own heart...... and as for Samson, God used him inspite of his sordid sex life...

so Matthew 7:18 needs a little more exegesis ..... maybe there is more than trees and fruit.... or maybe that has a different meaning entirely.

Interesting that you can quickly shift from spiritualizing when you need it ..... to literal when needed to make a point

 

[LastSeven]

The problem you continue to have is that the scripture specifically identifies 1000 years of time passes from the first resurrection to the second resurrection , it seems it is apparent you don't want that 1000 year time to exist --but IT DOES
The bible teaches that there is 1000 years that satan is locked away and 1000 years later he is allowed to go out and deceive who he can
It your error in teaching that you knowingly insist that the scripture that says point blank 1000 later satan is allowed to deceive people is there but you pretend that it is not there

Truth7t7 is right. There are no more days, and thus no more years, after the last day. That's pretty simple. Grade one logic.

However, you're also right that the ressurection happens at the beginning of the thousand years. It says so right in the book. Anybody can see that.

The difference is, you're talking about the first resurrection, he's taking about the second.

 

[LastSeven]

Good point. If this doesn't prove what you were concluding overall, I guess nothing can.

Then nothing can...

 

[LastSeven]

Satan is short for Ha~satan which means 'the accuser of the brethren'
satan is free to roam the earth right now and when he sees people sinning he goes to the throne of the courtroom of God and presents the accusations about the sins a person has committed , as in the case of Job , he was accusing Job of only praising God because God was blessing Job well and satan made the accusation that if Job was to lose all he would curse God

No, not anymore. Don't you remember that Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning? This same event is described in revelation 12. Satan no longer has access to heaven.

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

3. When Satan fell from heaven, Jesus received his authority.

Revelation 12:8
But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb

Notice that Revelation 12 says “Now has come the authority of the Messiah”. This is exactly what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”. This links the two passages together on the timeline, and confirms that Satan was cast out of heaven when Jesus was sacrificed and resurrected.

 

[LastSeven]

Amazing ! ...... you all have REALLY been busy !

we are down to #284 already ..... in less than one day..... this is growing faster than the Bitcoin !

I tried to read and digest everything since my last visit but my head is spinning..... so you can imagine the confusion that must be reigning in the minds of our many readers.

CONFUSED..... that's the keyword that comes to mind when I reading the Amil's explanations ...... Amil's really need to sit down and get a coherent synopsis of the doctrine and the timeline that somehow manages to reconcile all prophetic utterances with the Revelation...... but can they ?...... and even now, Amil's are disagreeing with each other (check post #246).

One of the reasons that Amil's come to all these different points of view is because they have no firm foundation..... no agreed method of scriptural exegesis.

Mark my words..... I have said before.... once you go down the road of arbitrary 'creative interpretation' to 'make' the verses agree.... you are going to be CONTINUALLY 'fighting fires' (new verses 'popping up' and needing to be 'creatively interpreted' to 'fit the framework' you are trying to build).

This is not the methodology of Premil..... FIRST we create a simple set of rules for analyzing scriptural text ..... we believe the text was written to be understood by humans and so we take it the way we would take any other text on the planet.....UNLESS... in the event that the CONTEXT reveals that this approach cannot be correct for that particular part.... then we use genuine common sense (of which most people have an adequate measure) to assist with RECONCILIATION but at no time are we willing to throw out the entire thing (a vast amount of plain straightforward interpretation) just to 'accommodate' a couple of verses that do not 'seem to fit'...... rather we examine those verses closer to see if there is an acceptable way to explain them in the light of the vast body of other revealed truth..... we firmly believe that the Bible is accurate, so it is US that are at fault if we are having a problem with a couple of verses..... if at the end of the day there are certain verses that we are not sure about ..... we can ADMIT that we do not know for sure what they mean at this time... it is both a sign of honesty and humility.... the Disciples did not understand everything that Jesus said to them BUT this did not stop them from worshiping Him and moving forward with His work.

Amil's have always been on the defensive with their weird, UNSUPPORTABLE beliefs that are not found in scripture ..... and this is why they come up with all these strange interpretations that nobody but themselves would possibly be able to 'fathom' let alone accept or believe.

The classic Premil approach is both sound and logical so it leads to reliable, repeatable conclusions and a certain amount of unity among it's proponents.

As I continue to repeat..... the Amil proponents represent disunity, confusion and a plethora of 'creative interpretations' that no one could fathom unless they are another Amil.

What is particularly distressing is their character assassination of other men of God..... and their disdain of rigorous scholarship..... we have evidence of that right on this thread..... the unnecessary vilification of both the Lion and Lamb Ministries and the Dallas Theological Seminary simply because they dare to do an objective analysis of Amil..... and the unacceptable personal character assassination of Scofield..... I am not entirely convinced that he was the scoundrel that they make him out to be on Wikipedia, Youtube and elsewhere online..... but if he has a closet of personal sins so have many other Biblical characters that did God's work in the Bible...... and he literally died working on the Bible because of the size and scope of such an undertaking , he pushed himself into ill health and would not give up..... moreover, many other dedicated men of God have poured over his work and have not identified the 'heresy' he is accused of.... and finally the Scofield Bible has been a blessing in the lives of countless Christians and God has used it in the discipling of numerous missionaries, Christian workers, evangelists and pastors.... there is every reason why Satan would want to discredit it and vilify the contents by casting aspersions at the creator of it.

This 'confusion within the Amil camp' has been documented by research and even confessed to by some of the Amil writers themselves !

..... and we are witnessing it first hand..... right before our eyes in this thread..... and as another writer has observed ..... it is to be expected.

However God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:23)

You're not really debating anybody, are you? All you're doing is accusing Amils of being stupid, disingenuous and evil. When in fact, we've given some really solid evidence for our position, none of which you've addressed.

 

[LastSeven]

Mmm scripture says differently -

`For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES.` (Eph. 6: 12)

Marilyn.

See this is the wall between amils and premils. Premils insist that the binding of Satan means there is no more evil on earth, while Amils believe that the binding of Satan limits him in some ways but not in all ways.

Let me ask you this, do you think there is no more death during the thousand years?

 

[seventysevens]

No, not anymore. Don't you remember that Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning? This same event is described in revelation 12. Satan no longer has access to heaven.

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Yes satan has access to Gods throne for the purpose of accusing the brethren,. he is the prince of the air at this time .

Actually that was satan fall from grace , satan formerly was known as Lucifer , the most powerful - most beautiful Cherub angel God made.
He was the annoited cherub a very special cherub .
Lucifer because he became conceited with pride boasting that he will be like the Most High , his high ranking status was being supreme being in the Garden of God and he sinned against the Most High God.

Then God cast Lucifer out of the Garden of God , this was before Adam was created . The result of Lucifer sinning against God was God casting him out of the Garden of God losing all status as a anointed cherub.
Jesus was speaking of how fast Lucifer lost it all , as fast as lightning he fell from the highest anointed cherub to the enemy of God

There is no redemption for angels and lucifer became known as ha~satan as he became very angry that God created Adam to rule in the Garden after it became filled with vegetation -so lucifer became Ha~satan after mankind took his place in the Garden and has sought to and still seeks to cause God's beloved humankind to turn against their creator.,
He is still at it today accusing people of their sins
lucifer fell from the highest anointed cherub and out of the 3rd heaven as fast as lightning , though now he is called the prince of darkness , the prince of the air and he will soon be cast down to earth when the Man of Lawlessness appears on the world scene , it is one of the woes in the Revelation ,
if you need scriptures I can get them later

 

[seventysevens]

See this is the wall between amils and premils. Premils insist that the binding of Satan means there is no more evil on earth, while Amils believe that the binding of Satan limits him in some ways but not in all ways.

Let me ask you this, do you think there is no more death during the thousand years?

Satan has not yet been bound , he is still freely roaming the earth accusing Gods people of wrong doings , he will be bound when Jesus returns , that is the wall between amil and premil , amil believe satan is locked up now when he is not yet locked up

 

[DavidPT]

Sealed For One Specific Purpose "Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle"

I have to at least admit, this being the reason why he is bound sounds like a far more reasonable possibility than what Amils typically come up with as being the reason or reasons why.

 

[DavidPT]

Truth7t7 is right. There are no more days, and thus no more years, after the last day. That's pretty simple. Grade one logic.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


How is something like this explained then? If months don't consist of days, what do they consist of then? If 12 months times 12 months, as an example, don't involve years, what do they involve then?

 

[jgr]

the unnecessary vilification of both the Lion and Lamb Ministries and the Dallas Theological Seminary

What "vilification" are you referring to?