When is a pastor's behaviour arrogant?

[Myychael]

Does the Bible gives direction toward the behaviour of pastors? What can christians do to be a postive influence to arrogant pastors?

The Bible gives direction actually that all members of the Christianity should be no different than a Pastor.one should try to live his or her life as Jesus,Paul,Mat,John,Peter and Paul said be followers of
Me as I am of Christ.Being a Pastor is difficult he is watching over your soul i would tread lightly here
He may of had a bad day if he has a family he also has family problems come along well he is human
And if you really look at his requirements for Pastoral leadership it humanly impossible thank goodness
All things are possible with GOD who strengthens us I’m sure you have elders deacons or other
Qualified servants of GOD there.I really hope you love him as an under shepherd of the body of Christ
Pray for him always sister there is a lack and shortage of Pastors already worldwide I believe and
GOD BLESS all you Pastors out there.

 

[Francis Drake]

Does the Bible gives direction toward the behaviour of pastors? What can christians do to be a postive influence to arrogant pastors?

Simply walk away.
I have one head and that is Christ, no pastor or any other man will ever get that position.

 

[Yoona86]

If the half or more of the members of a church is not happy with their pastor, is this a reason to take measurement?

every situations is different.

i guess technically speaking, if more than half of the congregation is unhappy, then a church can probably take measurement against him or her, depending on the structure of the administration within the church

however, sometimes the reason half of the congregation is unhappy with the pastor is due to slander campaign and people who lend willing ears to those slander and lies and turn around and spread those slander further.

but we all have free will, we can all decide what we want to do with it.

anyway, i have yet to read any posts that specify your situation, i personally would just be prayerful about it and ask God to shed light on the whole situation first

because you do not want to follow others example and commit evils against your pastor i guess....

God bless

 

[Open Heart]

Does the Bible gives direction toward the behaviour of pastors? What can christians do to be a postive influence to arrogant pastors?

It depends on what you mean by arrogant. There certainly can be pastors who believe they are morally better than others, and they need to be taken aside and it explained to them that we are all sinners in need of God's grace.

But if we are smart, we have hired a pastor who is a scholar of the Bible, Church History, and Theology. He SHOULD know more than we know. So if he sounds like a know it all, it's because he DOES know more. So the odds are really, really, really good that it's not him that's arrogant, but us who are anti-intellectual reverse snobs. Maybe we should gossip about him less, and listen to him more.

Also, why make a big stink over minor personality flaws? If the problem isn't that he thinks he is morally superior, but simply that he has a hard time communicating his ideas without seeming prissy, that's not arrogance, that's just his personality. I would hope we could be as gracious about his quirks as we want him to be with ours.

If this is a case where you hired a pastor who has no formal education in Bible, church history, and theology, and yet he thinks he knows more, LEAVE. The Church has a lot more problems than the pastor, and they have gotten exactly what they asked for.

 

[Francis Drake]

But if we are smart, we have hired a pastor who is a scholar of the Bible, Church History, and Theology.

Well that eliminates the apostles and most of the early church, except perhaps Paul.

 

[Paidiske]

Apparently Jesus' disciples followed him for three years... which is, coincidentally, the same amount of time it takes to earn a Bachelor of Theology.

Degrees don't make good pastors, but neither do ignoramuses.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well that eliminates the apostles and most of the early church, except perhaps Paul.

You must consider then that being personally discipled by God Himself to be of very little value

 

[brinny]

That's really very vague.

A pastor has a level of authority, and a leadership role in the church, and sometimes that can come across as arrogant when that isn't what the pastor intends (and when being a doormat would be harmful to the well being of the church).

I'm sure some people think some of what I do is arrogant, sometimes, but they don't necessarily see the reasons why.

That doesn't mean that it's not possible to actually be arrogant in a way which is harmful in that role; of course it is. But I think the question of whether that's really what's happening needs to be explored first, before you can decide what (if anything) to do about it.

Arrogance is a sin.

It's rooted in pride.

 

[brinny]

Apparently Jesus' disciples followed him for three years... which is, coincidentally, the same amount of time it takes to earn a Bachelor of Theology.

Degrees don't make good pastors, but neither do ignoramuses.

but neither do ignoramuses.

i agree.

 

[Francis Drake]

Apparently Jesus' disciples followed him for three years... which is, coincidentally, the same amount of time it takes to earn a Bachelor of Theology.

A Bachelor of Theology, when compared to walking with Jesus is just a lot of pompous hot air.
Acts4v13Now seeing the boldness of Peter and of John, and having understood that they are unschooled and ordinary men,
Just like Jesus, the apostles spread the gospel, drove out demons, healed the sick and raised the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit, not their theology degree.

Degrees don't make good pastors, but neither do ignoramuses.

Its not an either/or situation, but one thing is sure, which is that God's pastoral ministry cannot be obtained from a college Degree.
Smith Wigglesworth was a simple plumber who didn't learn to read until taught by his wife. Nevertheless, just like the apostles he raised the dead and made the lame to walk.

 

[brinny]

A Bachelor of Theology, when compared to walking with Jesus is just a lot of pompous hot air.
Acts4v13Now seeing the boldness of Peter and of John, and having understood that they are unschooled and ordinary men,
Just like Jesus, the apostles spread the gospel, drove out demons, healed the sick and raised the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit, not their theology degree.

Its not an either/or situation, but one thing is sure, which is that God's pastoral ministry cannot be obtained from a college Degree.
Smith Wigglesworth was a simple plumber who didn't learn to read until taught by his wife. Nevertheless, just like the apostles he raised the dead and made the lame to walk.

Indeed.

Amen.

 

[Francis Drake]

You must consider then that being personally discipled by God Himself to be of very little value

That is one absurd comment, given that I was juxtaposing man's high minded qualifications against the apostles being personally discipled by Jesus for three years.

 

[Open Heart]

Well that eliminates the apostles and most of the early church, except perhaps Paul.

The Pharisees made sure that all Jewish boys knew Torah. There was no Church History yet. And Jesus personally taught the Apostles theology. Who had a better education than they?

 

[Radagast]

Smith Wigglesworth was a simple plumber who didn't learn to read until taught by his wife. Nevertheless, just like the apostles he raised the dead and made the lame to walk.

The fact is, the Bible emphasises the importance of pastor-teachers, and pastor-teachers need to study the Bible.

And I'm afraid I don't believe any of those stories about Wigglesworth healing people.

 

[Radagast]

What can christians do to be a postive influence to arrogant pastors?

I think this thread illustrates quite well the evils of vague, nonspecific gossip about pastors. Labels like "arrogant" are just an excuse to bad-mouth Biblical teaching.

 

[Paidiske]

A Bachelor of Theology, when compared to walking with Jesus is just a lot of pompous hot air.

You have one, do you, to be able to evaluate it so?

Do you know what it's like to spend three years in community, praying together morning and evening? To fill your days with learning, in the classroom and in practical service in Christian communities? To spend almost every moment you have wrestling with what you have seen, heard, experienced, and how all of that relates to the kingdom of God and your place within it?

Why the need to be so dismissive of the hard work others undertake in order to equip themselves for service?

 

[Myychael]

You have one, do you, to be able to evaluate it so?

Do you know what it's like to spend three years in community, praying together morning and evening? To fill your days with learning, in the classroom and in practical service in Christian communities? To spend almost every moment you have wrestling with what you have seen, heard, experienced, and how all of that relates to the kingdom of God and your place within it?

Why the need to be so dismissive of the hard work others undertake in order to equip themselves for service?

I don’t think Francis is downgrading a the teaching of a diploma I believe he is saying and Francis
Correct me if I’m wrong the degree doesn’t make a Pastor a called man of GOD JESUS called
All the 12 Apostles even Judas.I don’t believe a degree makes you a Priest of GOD it may say so
On the Diploma.as let’s say an Engineer I work in the Construction field so I have seen PE that just weren’t much.Now on the flip side if your called of GOD the Schooling should prove to be a great
Benefit one will have to adjust after he leaves that setting and into Pastoring or wherever or whatever his calling takes him.Anglicans may only go to Anglican Colleges as Catholics I believe have their own
Colleges.I believe also if one goes and begins schooling GOD may call him there.I don’t want to hurt your feelings but do you believe because on has a Divinity Degree that he is called of GOD?

 

[Myychael]

The fact is, the Bible emphasises the importance of pastor-teachers, and pastor-teachers need to study the Bible.

And I'm afraid I don't believe any of those stories about Wigglesworth healing people.

Our LORDS ministry was almost a third or greater on healing he said that we would do greater works
Than these John 14:12 I believe also that the works JESUS did while here no book could hold them
John 21:25 I believe GOD gave these gifts to men to edify the Church not to argue everyone To his own
I guess I have had numerous healings have a nice day.

 

[Paidiske]

I don’t think Francis is downgrading a the teaching of a diploma I believe he is saying and Francis
Correct me if I’m wrong the degree doesn’t make a Pastor a called man of GOD JESUS called
All the 12 Apostles even Judas.I don’t believe a degree makes you a Priest of GOD it may say so
On the Diploma.as let’s say an Engineer I work in the Construction field so I have seen PE that just weren’t much.Now on the flip side if your called of GOD the Schooling should prove to be a great
Benefit one will have to adjust after he leaves that setting and into Pastoring or wherever or whatever his calling takes him.Anglicans may only go to Anglican Colleges as Catholics I believe have their own
Colleges.I believe also if one goes and begins schooling GOD may call him there.I don’t want to hurt your feelings but do you believe because on has a Divinity Degree that he is called of GOD?

There are two separate things which are pursued in parallel. There is the question of calling and the exercise of ministry in response to that call (with some form of authorising or ordination in between). And there is the question of academic study towards a degree.

It is quite possible to study without a vocation, and without being a suitable person for ministry. That happens all the time. And it is also possible to be a suitable person in oneself for ministry, and not study.

What I'm objecting to is the characterising of the study as useless "hot air." I spent six years in study, and they weren't wasted. I learned so much, grew so much, as a result of having that opportunity. I am a far better priest for having done that, than I would have been without. For someone outside that to dismiss that whole process as being of no value strikes me as incredibly arrogant, and worrying, but more than anything it makes me concerned for the churches which would miss out on what having educated leaders would bring.

 

[Francis Drake]

I don’t think Francis is downgrading a the teaching of a diploma I believe he is saying and Francis
Correct me if I’m wrong the degree doesn’t make a Pastor a called man of GOD JESUS called
All the 12 Apostles even Judas.I don’t believe a degree makes you a Priest of GOD it may say so
On the Diploma.as let’s say an Engineer I work in the Construction field so I have seen PE that just weren’t much.Now on the flip side if your called of GOD the Schooling should prove to be a great
Benefit one will have to adjust after he leaves that setting and into Pastoring or wherever or whatever his calling takes him.Anglicans may only go to Anglican Colleges as Catholics I believe have their own
Colleges.I believe also if one goes and begins schooling GOD may call him there.I don’t want to hurt your feelings but do you believe because on has a Divinity Degree that he is called of GOD?

Thank you Myychael.
"..........but do you believe because one has a Divinity Degree that he is called of GOD?

As an illustration, I recall over 40 years ago helping some Christian students get their rented accommodation sorted. The landlord of the property lived about 20 miles away and I agreed to drive them over as he wasn't prepared to let the house without first seeing the tenants.
As I phoned to arrange a suitable time, the address he gave was a vicarage, and of course he was a reverend vicar in the local Anglican church.

I arrived with my 4 female charges and we were politely received by the elderly priest and his wife. He was very chatty as he questioned the girls about themselves, and I then mentioned that we were all Christians.
He beamed at us and replied, "That's lovely, my wife and I are also both Christians", an answer that completely puzzled me, given that he was a priest.
Curious, I then asked how long he had been a Christian, "About seven years," was the reply.
"And how long have you been in the ministry?" I asked, "About thirty years," he told us!

It is not uncommon that people go all the way through theological college and come out with a degree of some sort, then enter ministry, and their relationship with God is utterly shallow or non existent.

As Jesus said, it is the blind leading the blind.