Can we pray for shortening the days of the Second Coming?

Would you be happy if Christ should return today?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 81.8%
  • No

    Votes: 2 18.2%

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Cees

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@searcher24

Perhaps overlooked, but I would like to repeat my questions:

"for the sake of the elect 'those days' will be shortened".
Q: Which days are in your opinion meant with the description 'those days'?

"for the sake of the elect those days will be 'shortened'.
Q: what is your understanding of the description 'shortened'? (Sadly a wrong translation of the real meaning of the Greek text)

Which days were meant by Jesus?
And why did He say that those days are 'shortened' (in God His plan)?

Again: 'shortened' is a poor translation and does not represent what is meant in the Greek text.

And about praying for 'shortening' those days (it concerns a particular time period):

Can we pray Daniels 70th week will not come?
I don't think so.

In the same way we cannot pray for 'shortening' those days.
Jesus already has said that those days will be 'shortened'.

But first it is important to get clear what Jesus was preaching about when He mentioned 'those days' and that they will be 'shortened'.

There are more wrong translated words in scripture to find and sometimes whole doctrines are based on them.
And it cost me a lot of effort to convince fellow Christians that sometimes the Bible teaches different than the translation shows us.

Shalom!
Cees.
 
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searcher24

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Dear @Cees ,

Can we pray Daniels 70th week will not come?
I don't think so.

I respect your opinion about making exact predictions on the Rapture date. However, I disagree that they are certainly reliable because there are (and there have been) more discordant predictions on dates than churches existing. And you know that there are many churches :)

Therefore, I wouldn't discard this intention based on one of these predictions. Moreover, I think that if this intention is not something that God could listen, we'd have nothing to lose, while if it's in God's will, it would be a great thing to do!
Therefore, I'll still take the risk, and not be stopped by one of the thousands of predictions on the dates or the events.

About "for the sake of the elect 'those days' will be shortened", since I'm noticing that for many it is controversial because many Christians have different interpretations of that, I'm leaving it out of the point discussed here, and I refer to the more explicit: Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13

Peace :)
 
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GirdYourLoins

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You should always pray with full honesty to God. If you want the days shortening then you should say that in prayer. we should hold nothing back from Him and we should submit our prayers and requests to Him. But in all that the important thing is to say something along the lines of "Not my be done, but yours" as in Luke 22:42 and other verses.
 
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searcher24

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You should always pray with full honesty to God. If you want the days shortening then you should say that in prayer. we should hold nothing back from Him and we should submit our prayers and requests to Him. But in all that the important thing is to say something along the lines of "Not my be done, but yours" as in Luke 22:42 and other verses.

Absolutely right sister.

"Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done
".
 
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Grandliseur

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As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)

Now usually, we pray the Lord for good things that we would like in our lives because Jesus has taught us to ASK for good things we want in many passages (Luke 18, 1:8, John 14:13-14, Matthew 21:22, John 16:24, and many others)

It is reasonable to think that asking is an important step in the relationship between men and God.
And what to ask? In the Lord prayer, there are are many (if not all) passages that will be fulfilled completely only on the Second Coming:

"your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven."


- The kingdom of the Lord has not completely come, and His will is not completely done on earth, and it will not until His return, and the separation of sheeps and goats.

"And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’"


- Same here: the only way in which we will be COMPLETELY freed and delivered from temptation and the evil one, will be on the Last day, by entering his Kingdom, separated from the goats.

Then curiosly, in Matthew 24:22 we find "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".

Now I have 2 QUESTIONS:

1) As Christian, would you really be happy if the Second Coming would happen in a month? Or in a week? Or today? Or would you prefer to first do some mundane things and you'd rather prefer Him to come later? (Matthew 22: 1-14, Luke 19:14)

2) Provided that we usually ask for many things never mentioned in the Gospel, and we hope them to be fulfilled, would it be so wrong to ask for such thing as the Return of the Lord? At least there is some probability that is a correct prayer. If it's not, it wouldn't have hurt to try, but if it is right, it will means enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and be delivered from evil immediately, not only for us but for everyone living now.

3) What if the Lord is waiting for people, at least His elects, really wanting and ASKing for His return, to shorten the days?

----------------------------------------------------------
NOTE
To a possible objection like "if the day will be shortened, some people will not have time to repent" there are at least 2 answers:
- Every day new people born in this world full of temptations (Luke 4:6), and there are more people at risk of losing the way, than people who repent.
- If someone has the seed of repentance in his earth, it's not to exclude that he will be saved in the last day even if he didn't publicly confessed to be Christian because they haven't met Christ yet.
If it wouldn't be like this, then every population who did not hear of Christ in the past and now would be condemned, and this is not the case, because those who pursued good and searched for the Truth would have listened to the Lord and convert if had the occasion (Romans 2:15) (think about people like Socrates), so they will likely be saved anyway.
We can pray all we want, but the fact of the matter is connected to the sign of Christ that Matthews mentions in chapter 24.

This sign of Christ is going to be a sun-like object, perhaps a brown dwarf star accompanied by its satellites of debris. Such an object doesn't speed up or slow down by a prayer. God could of course make things change, but he already has prepared things to come to be on time; so, our prayers on this will not change things. We have got to learn to live with things as they are and if we need help, pray for that.
 
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searcher24

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God could of course make things change, but he already has prepared things to come to be on time; so, our prayers on this will not change things.

Dear @Grandliseur
You are implying that God knowing the futures means that he didn't take into account our free will and our decisions, when taking His decisions about the future. This doesn't sound Scriptural, indeed God always wanted us to cooperate in His salvation plan.

Now here is a logical explanation of the above sentence.

Since you talk about the future, I hope you have familiarity with logical reasoning.

Premise: God created men with free will.

Now, imagine 2 possible different timelines in the history of the world.

TIMELINE 1 - what is predicted (the events are in order):

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

Event B: His disciples START to spread the Gospel in the whole world

Event C: His disciples prepare the bride (the Spiritual Church) by ardently desire the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

Event G: The Gospel is finally spread all over the world, and all over the elects cry and shout to the Lord (Luke 18:1-8) for His return

Event H: The Lord has set the time of the End here (from the very beginning of His creation), by knowing that B, C and G would have happened and by taking into account them too.

Event I: Something else that may have happened if the Lord didn't cut short the days, but will never happen because the Lord knew that B, C and G will happen before.

Now the Lord, by knowing this timeline, have told us some things that will happen in the last days, like D, E and F that you can find forecasted in the Bible. It doesn't mean that when setting the time for H, he didn't take into account B, C and G, on the contrary, he gave importance to His people in cooperating in His salvation plan, and to their actions and prayers, and decided the date for H by taking into account them too!

Now imagine another timeline (that luckily will not happen, because the Lord has predicted that the Timeline 1 will happen)

TIMELINE 2 - what could have happened if nobody cared about the Gospel (the events are in order):

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

Event B: Nobody care

Event C: The few that care, think that they'd be better off to hope the Lord to return very late

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

Event G: The Gospel is still almost unknown

Event (here is where in the other timeline Jesus Return) H : The Lord could have set the time here if his Bride should have cooperated, but since nobody cared and nobody wanted His return, He delayed His return. So nothing happens here

Event I: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

Event J: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

Event K: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen (etc.)

[...]

Event V: FInally someone wake up, understand the Good News of the Kingdom, spread it and pray "Come"

Event Z: The Lord by knowing the timeline, has set the date here (from the very beginning).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In timeline 2, More events happen, so more events would have been predicted if it was what the Lord forecasted. But luckily, we are in timeline 1, because from the beginning people started to spread the Gospel;
by taking a quick look on Google by typing "Hastening the return of Jesus", looks like there are many pastors from different denominations (and non-denominational) who understood the Lord's prayer Peter and Revelation, and are teaching to hastening the Return, so the question is: who will join?
 
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DennisTate

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As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)

Now usually, we pray the Lord for good things that we would like in our lives because Jesus has taught us to ASK for good things we want in many passages (Luke 18, 1:8, John 14:13-14, Matthew 21:22, John 16:24, and many others)

It is reasonable to think that asking is an important step in the relationship between men and God.
And what to ask? In the Lord prayer, there are are many (if not all) passages that will be fulfilled completely only on the Second Coming:

"your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven."


- The kingdom of the Lord has not completely come, and His will is not completely done on earth, and it will not until His return, and the separation of sheeps and goats.

"And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’"


- Same here: the only way in which we will be COMPLETELY freed and delivered from temptation and the evil one, will be on the Last day, by entering his Kingdom, separated from the goats.

Then curiosly, in Matthew 24:22 we find "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".

Now I have 2 QUESTIONS:

1) As Christian, would you really be happy if the Second Coming would happen in a month? Or in a week? Or today? Or would you prefer to first do some mundane things and you'd rather prefer Him to come later? (Matthew 22: 1-14, Luke 19:14)

2) Provided that we usually ask for many things never mentioned in the Gospel, and we hope them to be fulfilled, would it be so wrong to ask for such thing as the Return of the Lord? At least there is some probability that is a correct prayer. If it's not, it wouldn't have hurt to try, but if it is right, it will means enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and be delivered from evil immediately, not only for us but for everyone living now.

3) What if the Lord is waiting for people, at least His elects, really wanting and ASKing for His return, to shorten the days?

----------------------------------------------------------
NOTE
To a possible objection like "if the day will be shortened, some people will not have time to repent" there are at least 2 answers:
- Every day new people born in this world full of temptations (Luke 4:6), and there are more people at risk of losing the way, than people who repent.
- If someone has the seed of repentance in his earth, it's not to exclude that he will be saved in the last day even if he didn't publicly confessed to be Christian because they haven't met Christ yet.
If it wouldn't be like this, then every population who did not hear of Christ in the past and now would be condemned, and this is not the case, because those who pursued good and searched for the Truth would have listened to the Lord and convert if had the occasion (Romans 2:15) (think about people like Socrates), so they will likely be saved anyway.


If the dream given to Mrs. Carol Arnott was inspired..... (and I personally think that it was)... then we will soon see a whole new level of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus moving within and cleansing His Temple, His Bride, His church.

 
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searcher24

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God already has it set as to how long it will take to scatter Israel off of her land.

Thank for your reply! Just for curiosity, did you read the answer with the 2 timelines just 2 comments above? I'm curious about your opinion on that regarding the day set / usefulness of the prayers.
It's unrelated to which of the thousands of interpretations of the Revelation we believe. :)
Thanks!
 
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~Anastasia~

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I suspect that the second coming of our Lord will be like the first coming - in the fullness of time according to God's plan.

We can yearn for His coming, and pray for it. But if, for example, God knows 100,000 souls not yet born will one day come to Him, they are going to have that chance, regardless of what we pray.

Such major events as the Creation, the Incarnation, the Second coming - I think are too important in God's plan for us to adjust.


The best I think we can hope for is that God, in His knowledge and mercy, might foreknow all the prayers "that these days be shortened" and His mercy be active toward us in whatever way He sees fit. But I don't think we can literally change God's mind as He already knows things to be on such an important event.

Foreknowledge and free will are a bit tricky to talk about though. :)
 
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searcher24

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appointed time
Did you read the post I've mentioned you here above? The one with the 2 timelines. It explains exactly how an appointed time is compatible with fulfilling prayers.
And btw, you already should know about it given the answer you gave in the other question, so I'm surprised to see this switch :)
God bless
 
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searcher24

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I suspect that the second coming of our Lord will be like the first coming - in the fullness of time according to God's plan.
“For the vision is yet for an appointed time,

It would be an extratemporal effect, thanks to what is sometimes now called Boethian omniscience (after the Christian philosopher who ruminated on this among other topics while waiting to be beaten to death for his faith).
The specific time God sets for the Return doesn't alter, no more than the precise time of His first coming, but is still based (partly not entirely) on the situation of the faithful praying for it (as was true for the Incarnation and the prayers of His people for deliverance). That's because all natural times are present to God's omniscience (thus to God's omnipresence), and He introduces effects into the created natural system with full knowledge of how those effects relate to the past, present, and future of the natural system.
 
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Tayla

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As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)
You can pray for whatever you want. But prayer should be based on God's will. We don't know when Jesus will return, so it is silly to pray it occurs as a specific time (such as, soon, for example).
 
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DennisTate

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I so thank you for tagging me in this post.......
I have no idea how you did that but I will try to figure out how to use that very useful feature soon............

It is so wonderful to meet other Christians who know about how our prayers........ our preaching or teaching others...... or out going through the doors that are opened for us can hasten the coming of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to fulfill Zechariah 14..... Wow!
 
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DennisTate

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You can pray for whatever you want. But prayer should be based on God's will. We don't know when Jesus will return, so it is silly to pray it occurs as a specific time (such as, soon, for example).

I truly do appreciate your chutzpah to openly express your opinion.......
but from my over forty years of studying both the Jewish and Christian scriptures..... I am 99% certain that searcher24 is closer to the full truth on that topic...............

As time allows I will attempt to explain why I am so certain of that........

but... page one of this discussion may help you to understand my reasoning.....


Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!
 
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DennisTate

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Did you read the post I've mentioned you here above? The one with the 2 timelines. It explains exactly how an appointed time is compatible with fulfilling prayers.
And btw, you already should know about it given the answer you gave in the other question, so I'm surprised to see this switch :)
God bless

I have been wrestling with some other ways to explain this for over 27 years.........


Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.
 
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