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Featured Can we pray for shortening the days of the Second Coming?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by searcher24, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. Cees

    Cees New Member

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    @searcher24

    Perhaps overlooked, but I would like to repeat my questions:

    "for the sake of the elect 'those days' will be shortened".
    Q: Which days are in your opinion meant with the description 'those days'?

    "for the sake of the elect those days will be 'shortened'.
    Q: what is your understanding of the description 'shortened'? (Sadly a wrong translation of the real meaning of the Greek text)

    Which days were meant by Jesus?
    And why did He say that those days are 'shortened' (in God His plan)?

    Again: 'shortened' is a poor translation and does not represent what is meant in the Greek text.

    And about praying for 'shortening' those days (it concerns a particular time period):

    Can we pray Daniels 70th week will not come?
    I don't think so.

    In the same way we cannot pray for 'shortening' those days.
    Jesus already has said that those days will be 'shortened'.

    But first it is important to get clear what Jesus was preaching about when He mentioned 'those days' and that they will be 'shortened'.

    There are more wrong translated words in scripture to find and sometimes whole doctrines are based on them.
    And it cost me a lot of effort to convince fellow Christians that sometimes the Bible teaches different than the translation shows us.

    Shalom!
    Cees.
     
  2. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Dear @Cees ,

    I respect your opinion about making exact predictions on the Rapture date. However, I disagree that they are certainly reliable because there are (and there have been) more discordant predictions on dates than churches existing. And you know that there are many churches :)

    Therefore, I wouldn't discard this intention based on one of these predictions. Moreover, I think that if this intention is not something that God could listen, we'd have nothing to lose, while if it's in God's will, it would be a great thing to do!
    Therefore, I'll still take the risk, and not be stopped by one of the thousands of predictions on the dates or the events.

    About "for the sake of the elect 'those days' will be shortened", since I'm noticing that for many it is controversial because many Christians have different interpretations of that, I'm leaving it out of the point discussed here, and I refer to the more explicit: Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13

    Peace :)
     
  3. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    You should always pray with full honesty to God. If you want the days shortening then you should say that in prayer. we should hold nothing back from Him and we should submit our prayers and requests to Him. But in all that the important thing is to say something along the lines of "Not my be done, but yours" as in Luke 22:42 and other verses.
     
  4. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Absolutely right sister.

    "Thy Kingdom come,
    Thy will be done
    ".
     
  5. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur New Member

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    We can pray all we want, but the fact of the matter is connected to the sign of Christ that Matthews mentions in chapter 24.

    This sign of Christ is going to be a sun-like object, perhaps a brown dwarf star accompanied by its satellites of debris. Such an object doesn't speed up or slow down by a prayer. God could of course make things change, but he already has prepared things to come to be on time; so, our prayers on this will not change things. We have got to learn to live with things as they are and if we need help, pray for that.
     
  6. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Dear @Grandliseur
    You are implying that God knowing the futures means that he didn't take into account our free will and our decisions, when taking His decisions about the future. This doesn't sound Scriptural, indeed God always wanted us to cooperate in His salvation plan.

    Now here is a logical explanation of the above sentence.

    Since you talk about the future, I hope you have familiarity with logical reasoning.

    Premise: God created men with free will.

    Now, imagine 2 possible different timelines in the history of the world.

    TIMELINE 1 - what is predicted (the events are in order):

    Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

    Event B: His disciples START to spread the Gospel in the whole world

    Event C: His disciples prepare the bride (the Spiritual Church) by ardently desire the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord

    Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

    Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

    Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

    Event G: The Gospel is finally spread all over the world, and all over the elects cry and shout to the Lord (Luke 18:1-8) for His return

    Event H: The Lord has set the time of the End here (from the very beginning of His creation), by knowing that B, C and G would have happened and by taking into account them too.

    Event I: Something else that may have happened if the Lord didn't cut short the days, but will never happen because the Lord knew that B, C and G will happen before.

    Now the Lord, by knowing this timeline, have told us some things that will happen in the last days, like D, E and F that you can find forecasted in the Bible. It doesn't mean that when setting the time for H, he didn't take into account B, C and G, on the contrary, he gave importance to His people in cooperating in His salvation plan, and to their actions and prayers, and decided the date for H by taking into account them too!

    Now imagine another timeline (that luckily will not happen, because the Lord has predicted that the Timeline 1 will happen)

    TIMELINE 2 - what could have happened if nobody cared about the Gospel (the events are in order):

    Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

    Event B: Nobody care

    Event C: The few that care, think that they'd be better off to hope the Lord to return very late

    Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

    Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

    Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

    Event G: The Gospel is still almost unknown

    Event (here is where in the other timeline Jesus Return) H : The Lord could have set the time here if his Bride should have cooperated, but since nobody cared and nobody wanted His return, He delayed His return. So nothing happens here

    Event I: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

    Event J: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

    Event K: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen (etc.)

    [...]

    Event V: FInally someone wake up, understand the Good News of the Kingdom, spread it and pray "Come"

    Event Z: The Lord by knowing the timeline, has set the date here (from the very beginning).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In timeline 2, More events happen, so more events would have been predicted if it was what the Lord forecasted. But luckily, we are in timeline 1, because from the beginning people started to spread the Gospel;
    by taking a quick look on Google by typing "Hastening the return of Jesus", looks like there are many pastors from different denominations (and non-denominational) who understood the Lord's prayer Peter and Revelation, and are teaching to hastening the Return, so the question is: who will join?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    If the dream given to Mrs. Carol Arnott was inspired..... (and I personally think that it was)... then we will soon see a whole new level of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus moving within and cleansing His Temple, His Bride, His church.

     
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  8. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  10. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Thank for your reply! Just for curiosity, did you read the answer with the 2 timelines just 2 comments above? I'm curious about your opinion on that regarding the day set / usefulness of the prayers.
    It's unrelated to which of the thousands of interpretations of the Revelation we believe. :)
    Thanks!
     
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  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I suspect that the second coming of our Lord will be like the first coming - in the fullness of time according to God's plan.

    We can yearn for His coming, and pray for it. But if, for example, God knows 100,000 souls not yet born will one day come to Him, they are going to have that chance, regardless of what we pray.

    Such major events as the Creation, the Incarnation, the Second coming - I think are too important in God's plan for us to adjust.


    The best I think we can hope for is that God, in His knowledge and mercy, might foreknow all the prayers "that these days be shortened" and His mercy be active toward us in whatever way He sees fit. But I don't think we can literally change God's mind as He already knows things to be on such an important event.

    Foreknowledge and free will are a bit tricky to talk about though. :)
     
  12. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  13. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  14. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Did you read the post I've mentioned you here above? The one with the 2 timelines. It explains exactly how an appointed time is compatible with fulfilling prayers.
    And btw, you already should know about it given the answer you gave in the other question, so I'm surprised to see this switch :)
    God bless
     
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  15. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    It would be an extratemporal effect, thanks to what is sometimes now called Boethian omniscience (after the Christian philosopher who ruminated on this among other topics while waiting to be beaten to death for his faith).
    The specific time God sets for the Return doesn't alter, no more than the precise time of His first coming, but is still based (partly not entirely) on the situation of the faithful praying for it (as was true for the Incarnation and the prayers of His people for deliverance). That's because all natural times are present to God's omniscience (thus to God's omnipresence), and He introduces effects into the created natural system with full knowledge of how those effects relate to the past, present, and future of the natural system.
     
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  16. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus

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    You can pray for whatever you want. But prayer should be based on God's will. We don't know when Jesus will return, so it is silly to pray it occurs as a specific time (such as, soon, for example).
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I so thank you for tagging me in this post.......
    I have no idea how you did that but I will try to figure out how to use that very useful feature soon............

    It is so wonderful to meet other Christians who know about how our prayers........ our preaching or teaching others...... or out going through the doors that are opened for us can hasten the coming of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to fulfill Zechariah 14..... Wow!
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I truly do appreciate your chutzpah to openly express your opinion.......
    but from my over forty years of studying both the Jewish and Christian scriptures..... I am 99% certain that searcher24 is closer to the full truth on that topic...............

    As time allows I will attempt to explain why I am so certain of that........

    but... page one of this discussion may help you to understand my reasoning.....


    Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I have been wrestling with some other ways to explain this for over 27 years.........


    Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.
     
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