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Featured Can we pray for shortening the days of the Second Coming?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by searcher24, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)

    Now usually, we pray the Lord for good things that we would like in our lives because Jesus has taught us to ASK for good things we want in many passages (Luke 18, 1:8, John 14:13-14, Matthew 21:22, John 16:24, and many others)

    It is reasonable to think that asking is an important step in the relationship between men and God.
    And what to ask? In the Lord prayer, there are are many (if not all) passages that will be fulfilled completely only on the Second Coming:

    "your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven."


    - The kingdom of the Lord has not completely come, and His will is not completely done on earth, and it will not until His return, and the separation of sheeps and goats.

    "And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.’"


    - Same here: the only way in which we will be COMPLETELY freed and delivered from temptation and the evil one, will be on the Last day, by entering his Kingdom, separated from the goats.

    Then curiosly, in Matthew 24:22 we find "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".

    Now I have 2 QUESTIONS:

    1) As Christian, would you really be happy if the Second Coming would happen in a month? Or in a week? Or today? Or would you prefer to first do some mundane things and you'd rather prefer Him to come later? (Matthew 22: 1-14, Luke 19:14)

    2) Provided that we usually ask for many things never mentioned in the Gospel, and we hope them to be fulfilled, would it be so wrong to ask for such thing as the Return of the Lord? At least there is some probability that is a correct prayer. If it's not, it wouldn't have hurt to try, but if it is right, it will means enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and be delivered from evil immediately, not only for us but for everyone living now.

    3) What if the Lord is waiting for people, at least His elects, really wanting and ASKing for His return, to shorten the days?

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    NOTE
    To a possible objection like "if the day will be shortened, some people will not have time to repent" there are at least 2 answers:
    - Every day new people born in this world full of temptations (Luke 4:6), and there are more people at risk of losing the way, than people who repent.
    - If someone has the seed of repentance in his earth, it's not to exclude that he will be saved in the last day even if he didn't publicly confessed to be Christian because they haven't met Christ yet.
    If it wouldn't be like this, then every population who did not hear of Christ in the past and now would be condemned, and this is not the case, because those who pursued good and searched for the Truth would have listened to the Lord and convert if had the occasion (Romans 2:15) (think about people like Socrates), so they will likely be saved anyway.
     
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  2. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Hello, searcher, and welcome to CF!


    Yes, we can pray for this.

    For my own self, though I try to prepare continually to meet the Lord, and hope that I don't waste time granted to live in repentance, I think I would be overjoyed at His coming.

    For the sake of others (and myself) ... I wonder if His delay might not allow them time to repent, and so I would not hasten, if I were able, for my own sake. I pray that He comes at the RIGHT time, which prayer I believe will be answered, because God alone knows when the best time for the sake of all is concerned, and as always - He will do what is right.
     
  3. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Hello Anastasia,

    thanks for your reply!
    It's nice to hear that you would be overjoyed by that, I agree with you that although we should do our best to be prepared, we'll never be perfect, therefore it will be important to desire him with joy and humbleness.

    What you have said, "the right time", could be a consideration valid for any kind of prayer: for any prayer, he knows the right time, nonetheless, our prayers are important, otherwise they would be useless.

    So, would you agree to ask for the Lord coming as soon as possible, if it is in God's will too? (actually, this latter specification is already present in the Lord prayer, "your will be done")

    It would be like asking for a healing or any good thing that is good for us and the Lord knows it is good, but still, he waits for us to ask (Luke 5:12-14, Matthew 15:21-28, Matthew 7:7-12)

    what do you think?
     
  4. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    It is essentially already part of the prayers we pray, yes. And I frequently add my own to that effect, but centered on the salvation of souls.
     
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    I think we have a direct answer to that question in Scripture:

    Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
    waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! -2Pet 3:11-12​

    The word "hastening" there, speudontas, is variously rendered hastening, or desiring earnestly. So at the very least we can and should desire the reign of Christ in it fullness to come, and the passage strongly suggests that by holy and godly living, seeking the kingdom in thought, word and deed as we go about our lives, we can effect His goals and actually hasten His coming.

    Over in Revelation it gets even more explicit:

    The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” ...
    He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! -Rev 22:17-20​

    Here we are explicitly told to ask for the coming of the Lord, and John responds by asking the Lord to come.

    So I would say, yes, we can ask for the Lord to come quickly, but for our prayer to be meaningful it must be backed up by godly living for the glory of His name and the establishment of His kingdom.
     
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  6. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Hi and thanks Paul for the great quotes, very on point!
    I was forgetting about that ones, in addition to all the other I've added above.

    Given so, I am a bit surprised that I haven't met a single Christian yet that was putting this intention in his/her prayer. Conversely, I've met many of them who just think about worldly plans and asks only for worldly things. Many even fear that Day and hope it will come as late as possible.

    Do you have any idea about why this is happening?
    And is there a way to unite more Christian in the intention of this prayer?

    Ps I agree with you that the prayer must be followed by a godly living aimed at the establishment of His Kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  7. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think it is not wrong to ask, but I think we should be glad, if we still have time to help as many as possible to know Jesus and God. I believe the end comes when there are no more people that can be saved. Therefore, I can be happy about if it does not come yet, because then there still people that can be saved and if the end comes tomorrow, I can be happy that the end of evil comes. It is win-win situation for me. :)
     
  8. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Dear 1213, thank for your reply! Very deep :)
    I share your same feelings... I would be incredibly happy with the delivery from evil, and I want that as many people as possible could know Jesus.

    First off, these 2 desires are not in contrast: we can spread the Gospel, at the same time teaching to pray with this intention, that is actually the intention expressed in the most important and only prayer taught by Jesus.

    At the same time, we could make the hypothesis that righteous people who don't know Jesus in this lifetime, would be saved, if they have been good and if they were looking for Truth in their hearts. Think about past people too, like Socrates, of whom many said was inspired by the Christian Spirit.
    So maybe there wouldn't be countereffect in the Second Coming, and the Lord is just waiting that the will of His people align with His one, and they really ask for that. At the current time, unfortunately, for many Christians this is not happening, and the main focus is just on worldly things. Seems like in the parable:

    " 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’
    18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’
    19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’
    20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.
    ’ "

    Who is really asking, right now, that the Lord deliver US (because the Lord prayer is not a singular prayer, but a plural one) from the evil one? Who understand that the only way to be completely delivered would be by His Coming? Who, instead, think as in the Luke Parable:
    "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king."

    And by doing this deceive others, as it is said:
    "13Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter."

    Therefore, my friend, I think that the same feeling that I share with you to spread the Gospel, are not an obstacle, but a further motivation to pray for the best thing that will ever happen, and I'm glad that there are people like you that share these feelings :)
     
  9. Cees

    Cees New Member

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    Hello searcher24,

    "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".
    Who are 'the elect'?
    Answ: These are the Jews living in the tribulation and who believed the gospel of the Kingdom that will be preached by the 144,000.
    In this way they will come to faith in the Messiah.

    The Jews in the tribulation will experience a similar situation as in the days John the Baptist did preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
    Remember, when you are a born again Christian you already have been raptured prior to this tribulation period.
    A period meant to bring judgement upon the nations and to bring a remnant of the Jews to faith in the Messiah.

    At the end of the tribulation period, when Jesus returns on the mount of Olives, He will reveal himself (for the 2nd time !!) to the Jews as the Messiah and the Jews will accept Him then.

    There is no such thing as a second coming !! Its even not in the Bible.
    By calling this a 'second coming' we're missing the understanding that right after the moment Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river by John the Baptist, he revealed himself as the Messiah to the Jews, for the first time !!

    If, at that time, the Jews had accepted Jesus as their Messiah (after He clearly being announced by John the Baptist !!), the 1000 year Kingdom right away had begun.
    Jesus revealed himself for the first time to the Jews in the fall of the year 27 at the end of the jewish year.
    The year that should come thereafter was a Jubilee year !!
    So, if the Jews had accepted their Messiah then, the Kingdom had begun ...... with a Jubilee year !!
    Herewith we see that God had timed everything perfectly !!

    By reading the prophetic message in Hosea 6 we understand that the Kingdom will be delayed for 2000 years (two 'days').
    A Jubilee year occurs every fifty years.
    So, in 2027, in the fall, at the end of the Jewish year, we will have a Jubilee year.
    This Jubilee year will be the first year of the 1000 year Kingdom.

    That means that the tribulation period ends late Sept / early Oct 2027.
    The rapture of the church can be expected to take place during 2020.
    The church was founded at the feast of Pentecost and will also be raptured at the feast of Pentecost (late May / early June).

    The rapture can not be expected at the feast of trumpets like many Bible teachers want to make believe us !!
    They teach that Jesus allready fullfilled the feast of Pentecost just like He fullfilled the earlyer feasts such as the Passover.
    The next feast to fullfil they say, should then be the feast of trumpets.

    But thats not correct!
    The feast of Pentecost is just partly fullfilled with the resurrection of Jesus and will reach his complete fullfilment with the rapture (which is a resurrection of the body of Christ).

    To my best knowledge the rapture will happen around Pentecost, late May / early June 2020, 4 months prior to the 7 year tribulation period.
    So be convinced that our remaining time here is short.
    Spend your time preaching the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ to those who are not saved.
    Persueed them to put their trust in what Jesus did for lost sinners to save them from eternal judgement.
    Be moved with compassion for the ones you love, friends and people you know.
    Its terrible to be left behind when the rapture takes place !!

    And dear co-reader, if you do not know if you are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, believe He died for your sins on the cross and ask Him to forgive you all of your sins, accept the Lord Jesus as your Saviour, believe that He rose from the dead to give you eternal life and thank Him for becoming so a child of God after puting your trust in what He did for you !!

    "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".
    Q: Which days are in your opinion meant with the description 'those days'?

    "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".
    Q: what is your understanding of the description 'shortened' (sadly a wrong translation of the real meaning of the Greek text)?

    I wish God His blessings to you all !!

    Shalom!
    Cees.
     
  10. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    I think there can be several reasons. It could be blatant love of the world in actual Christians, and within Christendom it could be nominal Christianity - people who really aren't saved. Even among sincere Christians there sometimes is a sense of devotion to the work of the Lord, where we see the good fruit of the working of the Spirit and are content and joyful with that, and we want it to continue.

    Paul mentions in Php 1 that he was torn between going on to abide with Christ, and staying on earth because of the work. But ultimately he had the right perspective: going to Christ is better, but his continuing work was necessary for the church's sake. So he was confident he would indeed stay.

    I think that's a good pattern for us to follow. Relationship with Christ is more important that anything we can do for Him. Our heavenly hope should be paramount in our thinking. That will protect us from falling into the idolization of our work in the Lord, and will in fact empower us to do that work as fruitfully as possible. That frees us to take legitimate joy in the work as long as we have it to do. And we can hold the work loosely enough to know that the Lord will keep us in it just as long as it is a good thing, and that we will be called home at just the right time.

    It also seems that john had the same perspective. Even after he prays, "Amen, come Lord Jesus", he returns to the earthly work that God has for him, beginning with the transcription of the revelation he had just had. No doubt he continued to pray, "Come", but at the same time he remained faithful to the work set before him.
     
  11. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

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    This is such a great thought.

    I think the thing is to ask for such a thing: very, very slowly.

    -

    Were you to reach Heaven and discover that your prayer had not been answered, you would be relatively disappointed; but were you to reach Heaven and you discovered it could have happened even sooner yet, I think you would be a little absolutely disappointed.

    It is better to err, in favour of the relative.
     
  12. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Dears, such amazing answers, thanks!

    Brother @Cees , I've found reading your answer very interesting, and surely you have read the Scriptures a lot, this is great! However, I friendly disagree with a couple of points.
    First of all, you are trying to estimate roughly the exact day, but it is written in the Gospel:
    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
    Indeed, whoever tried to predict the day so far, thousands of people, completely failed.
    Moreover, you ambiguously say that the Second Coming is not in the Bible. If you are not persuaded yet by all the verses written by me, @paul1149 and the other answerers here so far, I'll just link you some (15 Bible Verses that Jesus Speaks about His Second Coming | 15 Bible Verses that Jesus Speaks about His Second ComingChristian Post | iPost - Share your story, discuss the issues with Christianpost.com, 44 Bible Verses about Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Besides the Gospels | 44 Bible Verses about Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Besides the GospelsChristian Post | iPost - Share your story, discuss the issues with Christianpost.com)
    By knowing the Gospel by heart, I could have quoted you one by one, but to be faster I just sent you these links. However, what I find most interesting from your reasoning is the suggestion that the time may be very close.

    @paul1149 great thoughts here.

    I agree, exactly as in the parable of the wedding banquet. Wordly justifications, that push away the desire to meet the Lord. I've met many people who explicitly answered me with words similar to the ones in that parable, when thinking about the hypothesis of Jesus returning.

    I completely agree and share your attitude. This is exactly what Jesus, who set an example for us, did.
    He taught us how to preach, by not wasting words, and at the same time completed his "ministry". These 2 things are complementary: the more people know and desire the Lord, the more can pray for His return and share his word. But we should beware about the risks that you mentioned above, and as you mentioned, to pray with this intention could be also a good way for us to maintain our focus and not become attached to worldly desires above the Lord. What do you think?
    I'd also want your opinion about a further reason, in addition to the ones you mentioned: maybe most people see the Lord and His Day as something to fear, and maybe this is because of bad teachings that they have received. In my mind and heart, I see Heaven as something astonishingly beautiful, but maybe some people see it as something "boring" or "limited", because of some teachings they have received.

    And last but not least, @Gottservant !!!

    This is exactly how I feel and what the scriptures seem to suggest! One thing is to pray for a personal little thing, but here we are talking about shortening the delivery from evil for everyone! What a bummer if this could be done quicker, but is not, because no one wants it, or no one is aware that he can ask!
    Someone, even if they could ask, would not, because of the reasons described by @paul1149 above. Some others, are just not aware of it.
    Unfortunately, it's not enough to say "your Kingdom come/deliver us from evil" with the lips, if in our heart we have no idea that the complete delivery will come with Jesus return, and maybe we even hope that it will be delayed to complete our worldly projects. Repeating words without understanding, I don't think is a useful prayer, what count should be the intention of the heart.
    For sure, what matters to God is the intention. By the time of John, is this intention ever be shared in any writing of theologians? Unfortunately, I haven't found them yet. And most churches seemed to be more interested in their administration on earth. Some other were just passively waiting about that Day. Indeed, there are many movies about the rapture, but in none of them people have prayed for that, they were just passively waiting, even with the fear of it.
    What can we do, instead, to share this intention? What if our intentions and prayers really matter to the Lord, as suggested in countless scriptures?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  13. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    @searcher24 :
    "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

    Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1.23.24)
     
  14. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    PRAYER:

    Jesus:

    Your work FOR us was finished on the Cross.
    John 19:30

    You have promised to "come back"
    John 14:3

    "Quickly" in infinity can be NOW!
    Revelation 22:20
    He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.”

    Help us to be READY!

    Matthew 24:42, 44 [ Be Ready for His Coming ]
    “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming...
    For this reason you also must be ready;
    for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

    2 Peter 3: 11b-12,13
    what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of "the day of God"...
    13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
     
  15. Cees

    Cees New Member

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    Thanks for your appreciation!

    Concerning your remark:
    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    Mark 13:
    27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    Here we are at the end of the 7 year tribulation period when the Lord God gathers His elect (the Jews !!) from the four corners of the earth.

    32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    Mattews 24:
    31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Here again, it describes a situation at the end of the tribulation period.

    36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    Mattews 25:
    13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    The coming of the Son of man is an event to occur after Daniels 70th week and has nothing to do with the moment of the rapture.
    The Son of man comes to establish His Kingdom.
    He will descent on the mount of Olives and will reveal himself as the Messiah (for the 2nd time as we now know).
    A remnant of the Jews will accept Him as the Messiah and after that the Kingdom will be established.

    The Kingdom will come at the very end of Daniels 70th week so knowing neither the day nor the hour should be understood litteraly (believers in the tribulation can calculate the end (the year, the month and the week) from the beginning of the 7 year tribulation period).

    The moment Jesus told this to His disciples, the church was still unknown and not founded yet.

    All this has nothing to do with the rapture of the church!

    Furthermore I think there's a misunderstanding about my statement that the phrase 'second coming' is not in the Bible.
    Of course is what you call the 'second coming', mentioned many times in scripture.
    I am fully agree with this !!
    But I was trying to make clear that the Bible does not define the coming of Jesus on the mount of Olives as a 'second coming'.
    By calling it a 'second coming' it is leading us from the understanding that this event will take place 2000 years after Jesus revealed himself for the first time as the Messiah (late Sept / early Oct 27).

    The moment we understand that He will come then to establish His Kingdom by revealing himself to a remnant of the Jews as their Messiah, we get a much better picture of the end times.

    nevertheless, about the rapture, our blessed hope to look forward to, even of this very moment we will not know the day or the hour.
    Not especially mentioned in scripture but its obvious to state it that way.

    The rapture, to expect at Pentecost 2020 is enough for me to wake up and look around for things that can be done for our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    I hope this has reassured you :)

    I wish you God His blessings!
    Cees.
     
  16. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Matt 24:
    [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    During the Tribulation (those days) ~ SOME people will come to accept Christ as their Savior.

    Matt 24:
    [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    During the Tribulation (those days) ~ SOME people WHO come to accept Christ as their Savior are included as having become part of the elect.

    As the Tribulation (those days) ~ 3 1/2 years of people coming to Christ.
    Then a change of who is given express POWER upon the Earth and Nations and People.

    The beginning of this CHANGE, and express POWER upon the Earth is prophetic ;

    As the Tribulation continues ~ an additional 3 1/2 years ....

    Daniel 9
    [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Jesus confirms the CHANGE; calling it;

    Matt 24
    [15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


    Revelations reveals and confirms the POWER given and LENGTH of time given for the abomination of desolation.

    Rev 13
    [5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: (kill them) and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    The POWER given unto him to "OVERCOME" is the anti-Christ's power to KILL, men who will not submit to him.

    THIS is in opposition to men WHO submit to the anti-Christ - who will suffer at the Wrath of God (for 5 months) and WANT TO DIE ~ but DEATH will not be afforded them ~ meaning during the Wrath of God, men will WANT TO DIE, but can not.

    Rev 9
    [6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    Matt 24:
    [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    Matt 24:22
    is particularly speaking of SAINTS.
    Saints are those WHO have overcome.
    Those who have OVERCOME, are those WHO Have accepted Christ.
    In the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation SOME will accept Christ ...
    ...."they" becoming saved, becoming saints, becoming the elect.


    "THEIR" days shall be "shortened" - meaning "THEY" shall be KILLED -
    BEFORE "THEY" can be captured / found and "FORCED" to submit to the ANTI-CHRIST'S "express" POWER, to RECEIVE "HIS" MARK.

    "A MARK", simply signifies, a Person's ALLEGIANCE to "something".
    And "GIVES" the "something", AUTHORITY to "CLAIM" the "person".

    A person who has made his "allegiance" to Christ ~ does so by numerous ways ~
    His YES, His CONFESSION, His AGREEMENT, His TESTIMONY, His Worshiping of God...

    A person who had made his "allegiance" to the Anti-Christ~does so by the same ways ~

    And BOTH, with a man NOT choosing to submit to Christ OR a man NOT choosing to submit to the ANTI-Christ ~ DEATH is the RESULT!

    Rev 13:15
    [15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    THE KILLING of those who DO SUBMIT to CHRIST and REFUSE to submit to the ANTICHRIST, ARE those, WHOSE DAYS ARE "shortened; BECAUSE of the ANTICHRIST'S
    Great power given him OVER all people remaining ON the EARTH; that they COULD be captured, KEPT without the Word of God to be heard, KILLED, without having come to Christ in belief.

    Matt 24:
    [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    Inanutshell ~ while havoc is raging upon the earth, and the antiChrist is preparing to receive his express power over the people, there are people eluding (running from his stronghold, up to the mountains and desolate areas), AND receiving the Word of God, from ministers sent by the Lord (144,000 thousand and ministering angels), and accepting the Word of God, positioning themselves to be the ELECT. And quickly they are thereafter, killed as having already submitted to Christ, and thus not subject TO, the antiChrist, or starvation, that they can not buy food. They become SAVED, and wait until ALL others (during the Tribulation) who shall accept Christ, have been killed, then together, their souls go to heaven.

    Rev 13
    [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Rev 6
    [9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Rev 7
    [13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    [14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    [15] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



    The Lord himself desires men in faithfulness AND spreading His Word, to have LONG days upon the Earth ~ BECAUSE ~ that accomplishes His WILL that all shall Hear His Word.

    Deut 11
    [1] Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

    Deut 11
    [19] And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
    [20] And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:

    Deut 11
    [21] That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

    BECAUSE;

    Deut 11
    [2] And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,



    The Return of the Lord, is entirely at HIS DISCRETION. There are children who have not yet heard, and children not yet born nor have heard; that are already predestine to be called to become "saints". Why ignore that fact, and ask God to hurry up?

    Should we IGNORE, the fact, that ALL MEN WHO become saved and born again; ARE GODS INHERITANCE?
    Should we be praying for God to "forget about" HIS INHERITANCE, of future generations?



    Men IN CHRIST NOW, are already delivered from evil. They have overcome, and are not subject to being, in the great Tribulation wrath of God, nor when the anti-Christ is given great POWER over every Person on earth.

    Men IN CHRIST NOW, are those equipped to SERVE the Lord by spreading His Word, to those who have NOT YET heard; THAT we may be serving the Lord to INCREASE HIS INHERITANCE.
    (Who does not delight to think their own inheritance might be increased, and should the Lord not delight in the same?)



    The "elect" NOW, are not suffering in subjection to the antiChrist's World dominance of
    "express" World Power. It is the "elect", WHO BECOME the "ELECT" during the Tribulation period, that is already revealed to us; that their days SHALL BE shortened.

    A PROLONGED LIFE FOR THEM, "would" subject them to the antiChrist's "express" WORLD Power, which God Himself, full of Mercy, prevents them FROM them from being subjected to the anti-Christ's "express" World Power, as it SHALL be given to him. THE ELECT would ALSO be subjected to Gods Wrath, when men will beg to die, because of Gods wrath, BUT CAN NOT DIE.

    So, no, as a Christian who delights in sharing and speaking the Word of God, as His servant, I do not ask God that my days be shortened. I hope that Gods Inheritance be increased. (first with the Jews and also the Gentiles, as the Lord has provided for Jews and Gentiles alike to submit to being included, to be called His People, and He their God.)

    Deut 4
    [20] But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

    And yes, when the Tribulation days of abomination of desolation are being effected;
    I praise the Lord in His Mercy, that those who come to Christ, becoming His elect, becoming my brother in Christ; that their bodily days be shortened; and their souls be taken to Heaven.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  17. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    Dear Cees,
    this new post clarified me a lot more your position, thanks!
    I agree on many things, and while I don't agree that we can predict the time of the Rapture (but I'll be very happy if it happens in 2020 :D ), it's an interesting position.
    I agree with you that in addition to prayer, we should continue to spread the Gospel.
    God bless


    Thanks @SBC for your informative post too!
    I agree with many interesting things you said, but I disagree that we are already delivered from Evil.
    We are still in a world full of temptations, and while we may have been partially delivered, I'll consider us fully delivered from evil only when we'll "take our place at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

    God Bless. Maranatha
     
  18. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    We "wait" to visibly "see". However whatever is "accomplished", "is accomplished".
    God "is" Light. It "is" His Glory.
    We, humans, (naturally) "begin" in darkness, yet the light, is all around us.
    We, humans, (can not BE) Gods Light, but we can "receive" Gods Light, by "reflection".

    We, humans, (hear, watch, learn, trust, act), by hearing Gods Word, seeing the effects of His Word, learn to trust God, and choose to act, (or not).
    IOW, without seeing, we see. IOW, without seeing, we trust.

    Our habitat, Earth - experiences things we can "here testimony" about, without seeing.
    We experience things, similar to what the Earth experiences.

    Earth -
    a greater light, sun.
    a lesser light, moon. The moon (lesser) has no light of it's own. It is actually dark. It ...only receives light, by the reflection of the sun.
    once the sun reflects on the moon - who can stop it? Yet the moon never becomes the ...sun, but yet the moon becomes light, by the reflection of the sun.

    Earth -
    day / night repeatedly.
    day for being awake with activity, working "under" the sun, the "light".
    night for being asleep without activity, not working "in darkness", void of the "light".

    Earth -
    cleansed with water - flood
    the wicked killed in the flood.
    the faithful risen above the face of the water, above the destruction on the earth.

    Earth -
    dry land - connected
    dry land - separating

    Earth - in the world
    world - mostly water

    Earth -
    shall again be connected - not separated by water

    Gods hand effecting weather
    Weather gives effects upon the earth/water
    Effects - turbulence, harsh, trials, hardships
    Yet the earth/water survive, sun is still present, light is still present.

    Earth - (shall be) burned (purified) with Fire, consumed, yet still exist.
    God - is Light - a "consuming fire".
    As the wicked were cleansed and drowned -
    So shall the wicked be purified and burned -

    OR - like the earth -
    Man shall being with his parents - separate from them
    Man - mostly water.
    Man shall have light and darkness to choose to have upon him, and act accordingly
    Man can choose to be washed and cleansed, or not.
    Man can choose to be purified with Light (Spirit of God), or not.
    Man can choose to have the Light of God (Son) UPON him or IN him, or not.
    Man shall have turbulence, harsh, trials, hardships, yet survive.
    Man shall again be connected with the Father - without separation.

    Man can not SEE, the full "effects" of what IS, but trust, what IS, shall be; SEEN.
    Man can NOW, only SEE the "effect", the "results", of the Light reflecting on them.
    Man WITHOUT darkness.
    Earth WITHOUT darkness.
    All darkness consumed, OVERCOME, by the Light, ie the Sun, ie the Son.

    We wait for the Son of Man to appear in the clouds, to rise up body's of men WITH Gods Light / Spirit within them, above the earths purification and destruction with fire.

    Why the Son of Man? Because we can not YET, see Him as He is.
    Yet, He comes the second time, ALSO, as the Christ, which means;
    He does not come as the first time, without reputation - (Phil 2:7)
    He come WITH His reputation - ie POWER -
    He comes TO "redeem", "collect", "take", what HAS OVERCOME, what IS marked, SEALED, with the KINGS SEAL, that only the KING can open, claim, take.

    He CAN TAKE, claim, redeem, BECAUSE, they already HAVE overcome the "darkness".
    Evil can NOT, touch them, take them, claim them.....
    Evil can NOT, "overtake" them, because the HAVE been "delivered", Have "overcome".

    1 John 3
    [2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    1John.4
    1. [4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
    1John.5
    1. [4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    1John.5
    1. [18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    What you are talking about is VISIBLY SEEING.
    What I am talking about is IT IS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED, whether or not "WE" can "visibly see" it.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  19. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Amen and amen and YES YES YES! We can.
     
  20. searcher24

    searcher24 New Member

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    What an amazing enthusiasm brother :) Do you know other brothers and sisters in Christ who share this intention?
     
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