It was God's Will and purpose that Adam would sin.

[ToBeLoved]

I would agree, but I don't think that is what it is saying. It is only him willing it if the person that sins does not have free choice.

And I also question this whole "sin" thing anyway. We are saved and allowed to enter eternity even though we are sinners. I mean by that that although my sin is covered by Christ's blood, it's still there in a very real way. I think there is more to this sin thing then God is letting on. And possible less, regarding how we interpret scripture discussing it. This is why I use the dog analogy.

I am talking specifically about Adam and Eve.

If God willed for them to sin, then God willed that mankind be separated from Himself.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I get what you are trying to say. But if God willed sin, then that changes who God is because God tells us He is perfect.

He is perfect. His plan is not flawed because He is looking for results. Take the example of Jesus being baptized in the river Jordan and a dove assented upon him. Jesus was perfect but we are not so he gets fire and we get fire.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I see God as sovereign of all things and the idea that little Adam could cause all mankind for hundreds of generation fall under the curse of sin and death. Without God's total purpose a major part of it makes God in not control of all things? Before there was a sinner there was a savior for the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth.

It was God’s choose Adam to sin because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eves sin; then He is not all knowing. It was God lowered Adam from a spirit to a loving soul, a dust man. It was God who made Adam and Eve innocent; they did not do it them selves. It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden. It was God who put the devil, a man slayer, a murderer, a liar in the garden; God totally knew what he was doing with Adam and Eve.

Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse.

Perhaps it's better to point out a few issues...

1. In what sense is God in control of all things? Is He controlling me to type this right now? Did He cause 9/11? Is He controlling things in such a way that babies are born then starve to death? People use the expression "God is in control" and it sounds nice, it sounds spiritual, but I don't think people really think through the negative implications.

2. You argue that if God did not ordain sin then He is not all knowing. I agree 100%. He either created evil, preordained rape, preordained torture, preordained the slave trade, etc. and is all-knowing of the entire future OR, He didn't create evil, and is all-knowing of the everything knowable; that is, the settled future.

3. When you say "It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden", is this not the notion of God giving them free will?

4. When you say "It was God who put the devil in the garden", how do you know this? Jesus called the devil a thief. We don't know a lot about the devil from the bible, mainly conjecture from passages that seem like they are about him. There are alternative ways to explain the devil being in the garden. For example one idea is that God gave the devil a creative role in the earth before the devil "fell". Because God does not revoke what He gives, the devil has remained in this role even after becoming evil.

5. Saying God cursed the creation is a terrible, terrible, accusation against God. His Character is to be avenged in this discussion. He is Holy. He is Good. He is Love. Humanity is often likened to a woman, with Jesus being her husband. Should we believe that Jesus puts evil in us, hurts us, causes us to sin, and then loves us, saves us, and heals us? What kind of relationship is this? I will never believe this.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Perhaps it's better to point out a few issues...

1. In what sense is God in control of all things? Is He controlling me to type this right now? Did He cause 9/11? Is He controlling things in such a way that babies are born then starve to death? People use the expression "God is in control" and it sounds nice, it sounds spiritual, but I don't think people really think through the negative implications.

2. You argue that if God did not ordain sin then He is not all knowing. I agree 100%. He either created evil, preordained rape, preordained torture, preordained the slave trade, etc. and is all-knowing of the entire future OR, He didn't create evil, and is all-knowing of the everything knowable; that is, the settled future.

3. When you say "It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden", is this not the notion of God giving them free will?

4. When you say "It was God who put the devil in the garden", how do you know this? Jesus called the devil a thief. We don't know a lot about the devil from the bible, mainly conjecture from passages that seem like they are about him. There are alternative ways to explain the devil being in the garden. For example one idea is that God gave the devil a creative role in the earth before the devil "fell". Because God does not revoke what He gives, the devil has remained in this role even after becoming evil.

5. Saying God cursed the creation is a terrible, terrible, accusation against God. His Character is to avenged in this discussion. He is Holy. He is Good. He is Love. Humanity is often likened to a woman, with Jesus being her husband. Should we believe that Jesus puts evil in us, hurts us, causes us to sin, and then loves us, saves us, and heals us? What kind of relationship is this? I will never believe this.

Absolutely all things God has control of. You find this terrible but would you rather have another deity greater than God controlling evil? The curse is death. yes physical death is the curse and people die and have been dying since Adam its called the curse.

So who do you want controlling evil? This realm of death is temporary but you are insulted because God does not dwell in the realm we all dwell in and with the curse of sin and death.

Perhaps it's better to point out a few issues...

1. In what sense is God in control of all things? Is He controlling me to type this right now? Did He cause 9/11? Is He controlling things in such a way that babies are born then starve to death? People use the expression "God is in control" and it sounds nice, it sounds spiritual, but I don't think people really think through the negative implications.

2. You argue that if God did not ordain sin then He is not all knowing. I agree 100%. He either created evil, preordained rape, preordained torture, preordained the slave trade, etc. and is all-knowing of the entire future OR, He didn't create evil, and is all-knowing of the everything knowable; that is, the settled future.

3. When you say "It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden", is this not the notion of God giving them free will?

4. When you say "It was God who put the devil in the garden", how do you know this? Jesus called the devil a thief. We don't know a lot about the devil from the bible, mainly conjecture from passages that seem like they are about him. There are alternative ways to explain the devil being in the garden. For example one idea is that God gave the devil a creative role in the earth before the devil "fell". Because God does not revoke what He gives, the devil has remained in this role even after becoming evil.

5. Saying God cursed the creation is a terrible, terrible, accusation against God. His Character is to avenged in this discussion. He is Holy. He is Good. He is Love. Humanity is often likened to a woman, with Jesus being her husband. Should we believe that Jesus puts evil in us, hurts us, causes us to sin, and then loves us, saves us, and heals us? What kind of relationship is this? I will never believe this.

So what power other than God do you believe should be controlling all theses evils you mentioned above?

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Absolutely all things God has control of.

Do you believe God controls the devil? Do you believe everything the devil does is part of God's perfect plan? Didn't Jesus address this in Mark 3:25?

So what power other than God do you believe should be controlling all theses evils you mentioned above?

God created free-agents (I use the word agents to include humans, angels, spirits etc.). An agent is free if it has the potential to choose against the Will of God, that is, the potential to do evil. Evil is born of free agents, not of God. The value of a free-agent is worth more than the potential evil they might cause. There was a real and probable possibility that all agents would choose good. After the devil chose evil, He began to tempt and deceive other free agents. God is not responsible for evil in a direct sense, only in so far as He created the potential for it by creating free-agents.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Do you believe God controls the devil? Do you believe everything the devil does is part of God's perfect plan? Didn't Jesus address this in Mark 3:25?



God created free-agents (I use the word agents to include humans, angels, spirits etc.). An agent is free if it has the potential to choose against the Will of God, that is, the potential to do evil. Evil is born of free agents, not of God. The value of a free-agent is worth more than the potential evil they might cause. There was a real and probable possibility that all agents would choose good. After the devil chose evil, He began to tempt and deceive other free agents. God is not responsible for evil in a direct sense, only in so far as He created the potential for it by creating free-agents.

Chapter and verse? Free agent? Man is not free. I do not believe that the Bible anywhere teaches that man is a free moral agent. That teaching is a figment of the imagination of the harlot church system. In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite. It tells us, "It is NOT of him that WILLETH or of him that runneth, but of GOD that showeth mercy" (Rom. 9:16). The biggest lie that ever was told in human language is that all men are born free moral agents. They are not born free. Be honest! Ask, Is that child free who is born in the slums; the child of a harlot and a whoremonger; a child without a name, who grows up with the brand of shame upon his brow from the beginning; who grows up amidst vice, and never knows virtue until it is steeped in vice? Is such a child a FREE MORAL AGENT, free to act intelligently, as he chooses, upon all moral questions? Is that child free who grows up amidst falsehood, and never knows what truth is until it is steeped in lies; that never knows what honesty is until it is steeped in crime? Is that child born free? Is that child free who is born in a communist land and in a godless home; who is told by its government and taught by its teachers that there is no God in heaven, and never knows even a verse of Scripture until it is steeped in unbelief and infidelity? Is that child born free? Is he a free moral agent? It is a sham, a delusion, and a snare to say it. It is not true. All are not born into this world as free moral agents. The truth is much stronger than that, for the fact is, that NONE are free moral agents!

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I already quote Job 1
Job 1:8And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you(N) considered my(O) servant Job , that there is none like him on the earth,(P) a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10Have you not put(Q) a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have(R) blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But(S) stretch out your hand and(T) touch all that he has, and he will(U) curse you(V) to your face." 12And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.


God is in control of all things; sure He limited what Satan could do; for a reason because God is always in complete control of all things to include Satan. But it was God who was the one who introduced Satan to Job “Have you(N) considered my(O) servant Job”. It was God who took down the hedge from around Job so Satan to do his work on job. It was the process of tribulation and trial God was after; to prove Job.

If this does not prove Satan has no power other than God than please chapter and verse.

 

[RDKirk]

I am talking specifically about Adam and Eve.

If God willed for them to sin, then God willed that mankind be separated from Himself.

Note that God also willed before creation that the Son would be separated from the Father for a time.

 

[RDKirk]

A lot of people will rush to defend God's honor based on their own perspectives of "good," but we have to remember that our perspective is pitifully limited.

Remember that Peter rushed to defend Jesus from crucifixion--which seemed "right" by his perspective at the time. What could possibly be "right" about the Father abandoning His Son to the horrible death on the cross? We only know how wrong Peter was--how wrong any of us would have been-- in hindsight and by the revelation of scripture.

Our concepts of "right" and "good" cannot be applied to the God of All Creation, who is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. We cannot realize in this moment how short these last few thousands of years are to a being who sees all of eternity in one glance, or even how short--but absolutely necessary--these painful millennia will seem to us after a few billion years of immortal glory.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Chapter and verse? Free agent? Man is not free. I do not believe that the Bible anywhere teaches that man is a free moral agent. That teaching is a figment of the imagination of the harlot church system.

Either:
1. Man is free to choose to do evil, OR
2. Man is forced to do evil.

Is there any other option? If you agree with (2) then God is literally doing evil. If He is in control in the way you say He is, then He is the one doing the evil. Do you believe God is the one committing the crimes and evil acts that are occurring the world today?

In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite. It tells us, "It is NOT of him that WILLETH or of him that runneth, but of GOD that showeth mercy" (Rom. 9:16).

Some believe Romans 9 shows that God is the one determining who will be saved and who will be lost (the deterministic view). But we need to look at Jesus Himself to understand this passage as Gregory Boyd writes:

Jesus is the one and only Word of God (Jn 1:1), the image of God (Col 1:15) and the perfect expression of God’s essence (Heb 1:3). He supersedes all previous revelations and can be superseded by none. He is the definitive revelation of God.​

Jesus desires for all to be saved, not just those Who He determines. The bulk of the Biblical Witness attests to this truth:

I Jn 4:8; Duet 10:17-19; 2 Chron 19:7; Ezek 18:25; Mk 12:14; Jn 3:16; Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:10-11; Eph 6:9; I Tim 2:4; I Pet 1:17; 2 Pet. 3:9​

If Jesus desires all to be saved then why does He damn some to hell? It becomes a contradiction. Rather, Romans 9 is answering the question of if "the Word of God had failed" (Romans 9:6). In other words, God had promised that Israel were His people, but had He gone back on His promise? This passage has absolutely nothing to do with an individuals free-will or determination.

The biggest lie that ever was told in human language is that all men are born free moral agents. They are not born free. Be honest! Ask, Is that child free who is born in the slums; the child of a harlot and a whoremonger; a child without a name, who grows up with the brand of shame upon his brow from the beginning; who grows up amidst vice, and never knows virtue until it is steeped in vice? Is such a child a FREE MORAL AGENT, free to act intelligently, as he chooses, upon all moral questions? Is that child free who grows up amidst falsehood, and never knows what truth is until it is steeped in lies; that never knows what honesty is until it is steeped in crime? Is that child born free? Is that child free who is born in a communist land and in a godless home; who is told by its government and taught by its teachers that there is no God in heaven, and never knows even a verse of Scripture until it is steeped in unbelief and infidelity? Is that child born free? Is he a free moral agent? It is a sham, a delusion, and a snare to say it. It is not true. All are not born into this world as free moral agents. The truth is much stronger than that, for the fact is, that NONE are free moral agents!

Free agents do not necessarily have equal opportunities in life. Neither are they given equal moral support by family or parental figures. Nevertheless, all are free to choose good or evil.

I already quote Job 1
Job 1:8And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you(N) considered my(O) servant Job , that there is none like him on the earth,(P) a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10Have you not put(Q) a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have(R) blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But(S) stretch out your hand and(T) touch all that he has, and he will(U) curse you(V) to your face." 12And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.


God is in control of all things; sure He limited what Satan could do; for a reason because God is always in complete control of all things to include Satan. But it was God who was the one who introduced Satan to Job “Have you(N) considered my(O) servant Job”. It was God who took down the hedge from around Job so Satan to do his work on job. It was the process of tribulation and trial God was after; to prove Job.

If this does not prove Satan has no power other than God than please chapter and verse.

Very good to bring this into the discussion. Job is one of the most misunderstood books in the bible. Please reconsider how you read these two verses where Satan says to God:

stretch out your hand and touch all that he (Job) has, and he will curse you to your face.
​

And God replies:

Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.
​

God states the reality of the situation. The earth was in the hands of the devil from Adam through to Jesus as seen in John 12:31:

The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.​

God does not hand Job over to the devil. He explains that Job is already in Satan's hands and that the hedge God had around Job has pretty much gone except for sparing Job's life.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Either:
1. Man is free to choose to do evil, OR
2. Man is forced to do evil.

Is there any other option? If you agree with (2) then God is literally doing evil. If He is in control in the way you say He is, then He is the one doing the evil. Do you believe God is the one committing the crimes and evil acts that are occurring the world today?

Yes man has a freewill to do evil but he does not have a freewill to save himself. Adam was cursed with sin and death. God is God and all evil and good is in His control. Did not god plant the tree of Good and Evil? No i believe God is full fulling His plan and to take the control of evil out of God's plan means there is a greater power than God who controls all evil? So who controls evil? If they control evil and God has no say than God is not the Lord of lords.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I do not believe in hell it to is a religious lie. Jesus blood is far greater than the sin of Adam. Why do you believe Jesus needs to torture trillions of people forever and ever with no mercy? That is total evil yet you are upset god controls evil?

Carnal man maybe to choose good and evil but not their salvation.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Very good to bring this into the discussion. Job is one of the most misunderstood books in the bible. Please reconsider how you read these two verses where Satan says to God:

stretch out your hand and touch all that he (Job) has, and he will curse you to your face.
And God replies:

Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.
God states the reality of the situation. The earth was in the hands of the devil from Adam through to Jesus as seen in John 12:31:

The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.
God does not hand Job over to the devil. He explains that Job is already in Satan's hands and that the hedge God had around Job has pretty much gone except for sparing Job's life.

Satan could do none of this until God let Satan have his way. Satan does not control the earth; he may be the god of the earth but he is not God of the earth. Read your Bible:

So many people believe Satan is the god of the earth and He is. But God is God of all the earth big “G”. There are plenty more scriptures; I stopped at Psalm 90; but there is no doubt that the earth is God earth

Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD


1 Chronicles 29:11
Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.


Psalm 2:7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalm 24: 1The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.


Psalm 47:2
For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.


Psalm 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. 8God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
Psalm 48: 1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge

Psalm 72: 8He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth

Psalm 72:19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

Psalm 74: 16The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.
Psalm 78: 68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 82: 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalm 89: 11The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Psalm 90: 1Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Yes man has a freewill to do evil but he does not have a freewill to save himself.

Good, we agree man has freewill to do evil. So if man has free will to do evil, then it is not God forcing Him to do evil by controlling him.

So who controls evil?

I answered this. Agents who choose to do evil.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Good, we agree man has freewill to do evil. So if man has free will to do evil, then it is not God forcing Him to do evil by controlling him.



I answered this. Agents who choose to do evil.

No one is forcing anyone to do good or evil its called the curse of sin and death. It is carnal mans nature to do good and evil remember Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which God planted and ordain the fall.

So these agents have ALL power over evil and God is helpless to control this evil? I thought God was omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent? What a weak and helpless god.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

No one is forcing anyone to do good or evil its called the curse of sin and death. It is carnal mans nature to do good and evil remember Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which God planted and ordain the fall.

Agree, except for the bit about "God planted and ordain the fall". God planted the tree is a metaphor for God giving free will to mankind. Man was not ordained to sin but sinned of his own volition.

So these agents have ALL power over evil and God is helpless to control this evil?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean sorry. But we have the power to do evil or to do good. Doing good is where God is the expert. We receive His Spirit into our hearts and work with Him to rebuke all the evil and establish His Kingdom in the earth. We are His soldiers, His workmanship, His pots, His vessels, and He has given us the authority to take back the dominion that was lost. This is why Jesus prayed "Your Kingdom come, Your will be done" because God's kingdom is not operating in all places on the earth, and His will is not being done in all places on the earth. God is helpless to control the evil and needs to partner with us. This is how He set things up to preserve free will. This is why prayer is important. This is why we are important. This is why we need Him. To undo the work of the devil. Why do we pray if He is already in control of everything? Is it just for show?

I thought God was omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent? What a weak and helpless god.

God is omnipotent. God is omniscient (He knows all there is to know). God is omnipresent. He is not weak, He is Mighty. He sees that we are valuable.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Show me freewill when it come to the Garden of Eden and Adam? You assume this is a fact because you have been taught it and it is what mainstream Christianity believes. You say God planting the tree is a metaphor for freewill. I truly believe in metaphors in scripture but they need to be based on substance not assumption. Example a goat is a clean animal according to the law so it cannot be symbolic of the loss.

Genesis never revers to freewill in creation but the Bible does and this is the point that negates your belief it was all up to little carnal Adam.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have.

God cannot be omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent if He only controls good. All the power of evil He is helpless to control if what you say is true. That was omnipotent means having virtually unlimited authority or influence and om·ni·scient having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight possessed of universal or complete knowledge.

According to your belief some unknown agent has all this power and God is totally helpless when it comes to evil.

and:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Calamity is just another name for evil

 

[ToBeLoved]

Chapter and verse? Free agent? Man is not free. I do not believe that the Bible anywhere teaches that man is a free moral agent. That teaching is a figment of the imagination of the harlot church system. In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite. It tells us, "It is NOT of him that WILLETH or of him that runneth, but of GOD that showeth mercy" (Rom. 9:16). The biggest lie that ever was told in human language is that all men are born free moral agents. They are not born free. Be honest! Ask, Is that child free who is born in the slums; the child of a harlot and a whoremonger; a child without a name, who grows up with the brand of shame upon his brow from the beginning; who grows up amidst vice, and never knows virtue until it is steeped in vice? Is such a child a FREE MORAL AGENT, free to act intelligently, as he chooses, upon all moral questions? Is that child free who grows up amidst falsehood, and never knows what truth is until it is steeped in lies; that never knows what honesty is until it is steeped in crime? Is that child born free? Is that child free who is born in a communist land and in a godless home; who is told by its government and taught by its teachers that there is no God in heaven, and never knows even a verse of Scripture until it is steeped in unbelief and infidelity? Is that child born free? Is he a free moral agent? It is a sham, a delusion, and a snare to say it. It is not true. All are not born into this world as free moral agents. The truth is much stronger than that, for the fact is, that NONE are free moral agents!

This is really confusing.

Talking about why are people born into tough situations or places or in poverty.

Truth is all of the disciples were poor and uneducated fisherman seeming to be from the bottom of society’s barrel and Jesus Christ used them to build His ministry and church.

God’s Word says God uses the simple to confound the wise

 

[ToBeLoved]

Agree, except for the bit about "God planted and ordain the fall". God planted the tree is a metaphor for God giving free will to mankind. Man was not ordained to sin but sinned of his own volition.



I'm not exactly sure what you mean sorry. But we have the power to do evil or to do good. Doing good is where God is the expert. We receive His Spirit into our hearts and work with Him to rebuke all the evil and establish His Kingdom in the earth. We are His soldiers, His workmanship, His pots, His vessels, and He has given us the authority to take back the dominion that was lost. This is why Jesus prayed "Your Kingdom come, Your will be done" because God's kingdom is not operating in all places on the earth, and His will is not being done in all places on the earth. God is helpless to control the evil and needs to partner with us. This is how He set things up to preserve free will. This is why prayer is important. This is why we are important. This is why we need Him. To undo the work of the devil. Why do we pray if He is already in control of everything? Is it just for show?



God is omnipotent. God is omniscient (He knows all there is to know). God is omnipresent. He is not weak, He is Mighty. He sees that we are valuable.

I personally disagree that the Tree of Knowlede was a metaphor.

Can you explain why you believe that?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Show me freewill when it come to the Garden of Eden and Adam? You assume this is a fact because you have been taught it and it is what mainstream Christianity believes. You say God planting the tree is a metaphor for freewill. I truly believe in metaphors in scripture but they need to be based on substance not assumption. Example a goat is a clean animal according to the law so it cannot be symbolic of the loss.

Genesis never revers to freewill in creation but the Bible does and this is the point that negates your belief it was all up to little carnal Adam.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have.

God cannot be omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent if He only controls good. All the power of evil He is helpless to control if what you say is true. That was omnipotent means having virtually unlimited authority or influence and om·ni·scient having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight possessed of universal or complete knowledge.

According to your belief some unknown agent has all this power and God is totally helpless when it comes to evil.

and:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Calamity is just another name for evil

I’m not seeing what you are seeing in Romans 8:20

“For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬