LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

[Peter1000]

And it still stands.

You are as much a master at cherry picking as anyone of us on the forum, for we all do it well. Those who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

Then the "50 other important concepts in the gospel" just aren't as important are they? Jesus didn't give a laundry list, he said to simple commandments. That should be enough.

Are you now willing to cherry pick the commandments and choose which ones you feel are important and which are not as important? Not a good idea.

Let's be clear what God actual said about Adam in Genesis 2:18 (bold mine):
18The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

So let's be real clear about how you are interpreting this scripture. You think because God said 'that man', that God only meant that Adam needed a helper, and not all the other men that would come from Adam and Eve.
You need to think again. That is an absurd interpretation.
Especially when the Lord means for a man to leave his father and mother, and cleave unto his wife and they will be one flesh. (Matthew 19:4-6)
And
Especially when the Lord means that a man is not without a woman, nor the woman without the man.

There is plenty of biblical passages that gives Mormons every reason to hold marriage up as a crowning concept that God approves of and is an eternal principle.

You could do that, but nowhere else in Chapter 5 does Jesus say "be perfect", so you would just be adding your misguided theology into the text. In fact, nowhere else in his Sermon on the Mount (Mat. 5-7) does Jesus mention being perfect.

The sermon on the mount was given to help men and women know what kinds of attitudes and actions Jesus expected of them. He gave many examples and ended with the attitude of 'love' which is to him very important and sets the tone for all the rest. Then Jesus ends with a final word that to me capsulates all of what he said, when he told us to be as perfect as his Father in heaven is perfect.

So do all these kinds of things, have love, be a peackeeper, be glad that you are persecuted for my sake etc., etc., etc., and all of these attitudes and actions are boiled down to these 2 words - be perfect.

I know you can't stand the idea that a person can be perfect, but get used to it. It is, as you know, in the bible, and you have said a thousand times that you follow all the words of the bible. So if Jesus tells you to be perfect, even if you think he only meant be perfect in 'loving your God and your neighbor', then you can be perfect in this life. Go for it, do not put up resistence.

 

[DavidFirth]

You are as much a master at cherry picking as anyone of us on the forum, for we all do it well. Those who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.



Are you now willing to cherry pick the commandments and choose which ones you feel are important and which are not as important? Not a good idea.



So let's be real clear about how you are interpreting this scripture. You think because God said 'that man', that God only meant that Adam needed a helper, and not all the other men that would come from Adam and Eve.
You need to think again. That is an absurd interpretation.
Especially when the Lord means for a man to leave his father and mother cleave unto his wife and they will be one flesh. (Matthew 19:4-6)
And
Especially when the Lord means that a man is not without a woman, nor the woman without the man.

There is plenty of biblical passages that gives Mormons every reason to hold marriage up as a crowning concept that God approves of and is an eternal principle.



The sermon on the mount was given to help men and women know what kinds of attitudes and actions Jesus expected of them. He gave many examples and ended with the attitude of 'love' which is to him very important and sets the tone for all the rest. Then Jesus ends with a final word that to me capsulates all of what he said, when he told us to be as perfect as his Father in heaven is perfect.

So do all these kinds of things, have love, be a peackeeper, be glad that you are persecuted for my sake etc., etc., etc., and all of these attitudes and actions are boiled down to these 2 words - be perfect.

I know you can't stand the idea that a person can be perfect, but get used to it. It is, as you know, in the bible, and you have said a thousand times that you follow all the words of the bible. So if Jesus tells you to be perfect, even if you think he only meant be perfect in 'loving your God and your neighbor', then you can be perfect in this life. Go for it, do not put up resistence.

Do you consider yourself perfect?

 

[Peter1000]

I have debated with Mormons before and have shown them where much of their doctrine contradicts the teaching of Christ.

I have debated with mainstream Christians and have shown them were much of their biblical doctrines contradict other biblical doctrine and the teachings of Jesus.

Where does that leave us?

 

[Peter1000]

Do you not see the irony in your above statements?? You rely ONLY on Mark 16:16. In doing so, you are "choosing to embrace some scriptures while ignoring others".

You know by now that Jane does not rely solely on Mark 16:16. You know that.
However, Mark 16:16 is used to throw light on your determination to believe this: all a person has to do is believe and they are automatically saved at that moment in time and get a free pass into heaven. We use Mark 16:16 because it explodes that entire false teaching.

 

[DavidFirth]

I have debated with mainstream Christians and have shown them were much of their biblical doctrines contradict other biblical doctrine and the teachings of Jesus.

Where does that leave us?

It leaves you with having to go to hideous extremes to defend your religion rather than admit Joseph Smith and many of your doctrines are just wrong.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Do you consider yourself perfect?

I (and every other believer) am perfected in Christ. That's not to say that I myself am perfect (NO!!!), but Christ is perfected and I am in Him.

It leaves you with having to go to hideous extremes to defend your religion rather than admit Joseph Smith and many of your doctrines are just wrong.

I don't go to extreme to defend my faith at all. I simply explain it, and other people can do whatever-- they have their will and I respect that. Likewise, I listen to others explain their faith and respect their decisions, even if I disagree with them.

 

[Peter1000]

Do you consider yourself perfect?

It is an interesting question.

There are things that I am perfect in. For example I am perfect in regards to murder. I am perfect in regards to adultery. I am perfect in paying my tithes and offerings.

So there are some things I can say yes to, but am I as perfect as Heavenly Father is perfect, no. But some day, I hope to be.

How bout you, do you hope some day to be as perfect as Heavenly Father is perfect?

 

[fatboys]

It leaves you with having to go to hideous extremes to defend your religion rather than admit Joseph Smith and many of your doctrines are just wrong.

17 Points of the True Church

 

[Peter1000]

It leaves you with having to go to hideous extremes to defend your religion rather than admit Joseph Smith and many of your doctrines are just wrong.

I'm not sure that hideous is a proper adjective to use, but I have seen some silly interpretations of the scriptures and ignorance of biblical scriptures that has made me wonder if people read and study the bible at all.

I know on this forum that Christians are very biblically oriented, however there is way to much cherry picking from both sides to come to any realization of what the real answer is about a particular subject. We never seem to get to the real truth.

 

[Jane_Doe]

17 Points of the True Church

For the record: I'm not a fan of that site.

 

[Rescued One]

17 Points of the True Church

"This impressed me. I didn't have to take anybody's word for it. I asked, and I received an answer. I know that this is the Church of Jesus Christ. I testify to you that the gospel is here upon the earth."

And I testify that I studied Mormonism and prayed about it, and God told me it isn't true and that it contradicts the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Those missionaries baptized four of us in my family of origin and never told even one of us the Mormon requirements for eternal life or that they believed they would become Gods.

Acts 17
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I was mindessly following Mormonism for years, before I started studying my Bible. When I finally started reading my Bible instead of the Book of Mormon, God showed me how false Mormonism is.

Instead of trusting Mormon leaders (men), I learned that I should follow God.

Galatians 1
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not sure that hideous is a proper adjective to use, but I have seen some silly interpretations of the scriptures and ignorance of biblical scriptures that has made me wonder if people read and study the bible at all.

I know on this forum that Christians are very biblically oriented, however there is way to much cherry picking from both sides to come to any realization of what the real answer is about a particular subject. We never seem to get to the real truth.

Are you saying that you don't know the truth or does "we" refer to non-Mormons?

Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong…
Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9

People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44

"'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111; copyright 1996, Chapter 38

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G

 

[Peter1000]

Are you saying that you don't know the truth or does "we" refer to non-Mormons?

Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong…
Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9

People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44

"'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111; copyright 1996, Chapter 38

View attachment 212942
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G

I mean that we debate the issue and nobody ever seems to win the discussion. We never seem to be able to get to the bottom of what is the truth. You and I particularly.

 

[Rescued One]

I mean that we debate the issue and nobody ever seems to win the discussion. We never seem to be able to get to the bottom of what is the truth. You and I particularly.

Just because we disagree? I'm not worried. I'm following Jesus.

 

[Rescued One]

You know by now that Jane does not rely solely on Mark 16:16. You know that.
However, Mark 16:16 is used to throw light on your determination to believe this: all a person has to do is believe and they are automatically saved at that moment in time and get a free pass into heaven. We use Mark 16:16 because it explodes that entire false teaching.

Faith comes from God. Without the faith He gives, a person can't believe --- so how does a person believe --- faith isn't something he can produce. God's grace is the means by which we are conformed to the image of Christ. So salvation isn't a dead gift --- it is alive!

 

[Jane_Doe]

Just because we disagree? I'm not worried. I'm following Jesus.

And likewise I'm not worried because I'm following Jesus.

(That was a pair of statements got us exactly no where. I'd much rather just have respect for different people and maybe get somewhere in regards to loving each other).

 

[Peter1000]

"This impressed me. I didn't have to take anybody's word for it. I asked, and I received an answer. I know that this is the Church of Jesus Christ. I testify to you that the gospel is here upon the earth."

And I testify that I studied Mormonism and prayed about it, and God told me it isn't true and that it contradicts the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Those missionaries baptized four of us in my family of origin and never told even one of us the Mormon requirements for eternal life or that they believed they would become Gods.

Acts 17
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I was mindessly following Mormonism for years, before I started studying my Bible. When I finally started reading my Bible instead of the Book of Mormon, God showed me how false Mormonism is.

Instead of trusting Mormon leaders (men), I learned that I should follow God.

Galatians 1
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Instead of trusting Mormon leaders (men), I learned that I should follow God.

So I suspect you would not have followed the apostles and prophets, in the NT church or your bishop, or the elders etc., because they were all (men) too. Because you would have gone to the synagogue and tried to get a private reading of the Torah, and been turned down because you were a female.

You would have been very frustrated with 1st century living and I don't know what would have happened to you.

Men are called of God to receive his word and reveal it unto the masses. Who take the word and govern their lives according to his word. This is the pattern since the beginning, it will not be different in the end.

 

[BigDaddy4]

You are as much a master at cherry picking as anyone of us on the forum, for we all do it well. Those who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

Cherry picking is taking a scripture verse out of context and trying to make it say what you want it to say. As much as possible, I do not do that. So you are falsely accusing me.

Are you now willing to cherry pick the commandments and choose which ones you feel are important and which are not as important? Not a good idea.

Are you going to continue in your misrepresentation of what was actually said? Jesus said what the 2 most important commandments were, not me. I'll stick with what he said.

So let's be real clear about how you are interpreting this scripture. You think because God said 'that man', that God only meant that Adam needed a helper, and not all the other men that would come from Adam and Eve.
You need to think again. That is an absurd interpretation.

The "absurd interpretation" is on you. You are the one wanting Genesis 2:18 to say something that it does not say - "the man", "for him" are talking specifically about Adam. The "help mate" is talking about Eve. Unless you think Eve was created for all other men since Adam?? Now that would be absurd!

Especially when the Lord means for a man to leave his father and mother, and cleave unto his wife and they will be one flesh. (Matthew 19:4-6)

This does not support your celestial marriage assertion.

And
Especially when the Lord means that a man is not without a woman, nor the woman without the man.

Reference?

There is plenty of biblical passages that gives Mormons every reason to hold marriage up as a crowning concept that God approves of and is an eternal principle.

Only if scripture is misused to fit the lds agenda. Scripture actually supports the marriage ends at death (Romans 7:1-3, 1 Cor. 7:39). Nowhere is it found in Scripture that one has to be married to receive some higher level of salvation/exhaltation.

The sermon on the mount was given to help men and women know what kinds of attitudes and actions Jesus expected of them. He gave many examples and ended with the attitude of 'love' which is to him very important and sets the tone for all the rest. Then Jesus ends with a final word that to me capsulates all of what he said, when he told us to be as perfect as his Father in heaven is perfect.

So do all these kinds of things, have love, be a peackeeper, be glad that you are persecuted for my sake etc., etc., etc., and all of these attitudes and actions are boiled down to these 2 words - be perfect.

More of your cherry picking and trying to make scripture say something it does not. While the Sermon on the Mount is full of good theology, "be perfect" is found in only one verse. And only in the first of the 3 chapters it covers. So, again, you are trying to make it apply to the whole Sermon instead of the one topic - love - where it actually is written.

I know you can't stand the idea that a person can be perfect, but get used to it.

Where have I ever said this that you "know"? Are you now adding mind reading to your cherry picking? Sure sign of desperation.

It is, as you know, in the bible, and you have said a thousand times that you follow all the words of the bible. So if Jesus tells you to be perfect, even if you think he only meant be perfect in 'loving your God and your neighbor', then you can be perfect in this life. Go for it, do not put up resistence.

No human was, is, or ever will be perfect, save for Jesus, while they live on this earth of loving God and loving others. We are sinners. When we sin, we are not loving God perfectly, and possibly not loving others perfectly as well, depending on the sin.

 

[fatboys]

"This impressed me. I didn't have to take anybody's word for it. I asked, and I received an answer. I know that this is the Church of Jesus Christ. I testify to you that the gospel is here upon the earth."

And I testify that I studied Mormonism and prayed about it, and God told me it isn't true and that it contradicts the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Those missionaries baptized four of us in my family of origin and never told even one of us the Mormon requirements for eternal life or that they believed they would become Gods.

Acts 17
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I was mindessly following Mormonism for years, before I started studying my Bible. When I finally started reading my Bible instead of the Book of Mormon, God showed me how false Mormonism is.

Instead of trusting Mormon leaders (men), I learned that I should follow God.

Galatians 1
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And how did God manifest this truth to you?

 

[fatboys]

For the record: I'm not a fan of that site.

I was doing some research and ran across this story I had heard years ago. This man and his buddies use to put on fire sides I know nothing about the website