This is just my private thread to watch this interesting debate. Youtube will not play on my browser, but the embedded videos on this forum will play in my browser
Isn't infant baptism within the Anglican church more a declaration that the child will be brought up in the faith ? My wife was Anglican ( actually Episcopalian) in our early years of marriage and that was her belief. She insisted the two children we had together ( now adults) be baptized, I had no objection.On the other hand, I cannot think of a single church which insists that it IS necessary for an infant's salvation.
Isn't infant baptism within the Anglican church more a declaration that the child will be brought up in the faith ? My wife was Anglican ( actually Episcopalian) in our early years of marriage and that was her belief. She insisted the two children we had together ( now adults) be baptized, I had no objection.
Thanks for the clarification.Not exactly. There is a promise made by the sponsors that the child will be raised in the faith, but the sacrament is also believed to forgive sin and impart grace, much like the RC view.
It's a mistake, however, to think that this very important sacrament that is the indelible initiation into the Christian faith, the family of God, is absolutely "necessary for salvation."
Most mainline Christian denominations do allow that strange circumstances which might prevent someone, of any age, from being baptized do not preclude such a person from being saved so long as he sincerely repents of his sin and by faith accepts the Lord as God and his personal Savior.
This is just my private thread to watch this interesting debate. Youtube will not play on my browser, but the embedded videos on this forum will play in my browser
People often read this verse as though it's a warning to those who are wavering. Be sure to endure, etc.Jesus was clear at Matthew 10:22-- Those who endure till the end( death or Har-mageddon) will be saved. None living have done that.
People often read this verse as though it's a warning to those who are wavering. Be sure to endure, etc.
It's actually a statement of fact, and the same applies to most of John 7.
Those who are saved do the following...and those who are not saved live this other way instead and will get what they deserve. There's no reason to think that the scripture is saying "IF you choose to do X, then, but IF you decide to do Z instead, this is what you'll get."
I know that people think that's an important point to make--especially if it's part of a faith vs works discussion or something like that. I don't see it that way because when people say that they've been saved or ask if you've been saved, what they mean is that you have been assured of your salvation thanks to something that happened with you (born again, conversion experience, that is). No one is saved in the ultimate sense until they pass through the pearly gates.Reality--According to that verse--0 are saved until they endure until the end. Its only mortals telling others they are saved now. Its not what the bible teaches.
I know that people think that's an important point to make--especially if it's part of a faith vs works discussion or something like that. I don't see it that way because when people say that they've been saved or ask if you've been saved, what they mean is that you have been assured of your salvation thanks to something that happened with you (born again, conversion experience, that is). No one is saved in the ultimate sense until they pass through the pearly gates.
This is just my private thread to watch this interesting debate. Youtube will not play on my browser, but the embedded videos on this forum will play in my browser
Sorry, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness and I don't want to enter into a discussion of Jehovah's Witness theology, either. My understanding is that this is not a forum that permits it, although Christianity and World Religion does.Only the little flock( Luke 12:32) are promised heaven.These are the anointed, the bride of Christ= 144,000-Rev 14:3-- No where in the bible is the great multitude promised heaven-- Jesus gave them this promise( Matt 5:5)--Happy are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. The promise of the OT as well at Psalm 37:9-11, verse 29- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.
Well, I think that the Church of Christ side in the debate bring out a really interesting point with this scripture Galatians 3:26-27 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, for as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ".Faith is always associated with a willingness to submit to God's will, but it is never the act of submitting to God's will that saves us, but rather we are saved by the faith that requires us to submit, and getting baptized is submitting.
Sorry, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness and I don't want to enter into a discussion of Jehovah's Witness theology, either. My understanding is that this is not a forum that permits it, although Christianity and World Religion does.
Only the little flock( Luke 12:32) are promised heaven.These are the anointed, the bride of Christ= 144,000-Rev 14:3-- No where in the bible is the great multitude promised heaven-- Jesus gave them this promise( Matt 5:5)--Happy are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. The promise of the OT as well at Psalm 37:9-11, verse 29- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.
Reality--According to that verse--0 are saved until they endure until the end. Its only mortals telling others they are saved now. Its not what the bible teaches.