Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[JIMINZ]

This mindset you have is IMO not biblical.

I stated:

JacksBratt said: ↑

Maybe you can explain, in your own words, the difference in the thinking here:

Say you are sitting on a park bench across from an outdoor market. A man walks along the market row and you observe him take an apple and eat it as he is walking. He never pays for the apple.

SO.... if he is a believer... no sin was committed because he cannot sin... Period (your words)
..........if he is a non believer.... sin was committed.


You replied:

Correct.

Now, you left off my final comment that said:
No scripture in the world is going to make this scenario biblical.

Can you explain to me, in your own words, how a man can take an apple, not pay for it and, yet, eat it.... and it is not a sinful act?

Not with all these scriptures. I have read enough of them and none of them can explain this scenario.

If an act is sinful, how does being a believer negate it of being sinful, while a person who is not a believer is sinning?

We do not live with that arrangement.

If that were so.... I could just go out in the world and do as I pleased with no need of ever repenting of my acts.

Do you never, in your prayers, ask for forgiveness for your sins... anymore?

If this were the case, why would Christ teach us to pray "forgive us our trespasses"?

.
Then it should be simple enough for you to, just Refute his mindset with Scripture.

 

[JIMINZ]

.........

 

[JIMINZ]

Shall we sin so grace can abound? GOD FORBID! It's giving the SAVED a warning, because they still have free will.

.
Does a Slave have the ability to choose for himself?

 

[JacksBratt]

.
Then it should be simple enough for you to, just Refute his mindset with Scripture.

I did.

Post #598.

 

[rjs330]

If your verses proves your point they would stand, but talking about that we should not sin is not saying sin removes salvation.

You can’t make it say what it doesn’t say.

Sin doesn't automatically remove our salvation. At least not immediately. It can eventually if we continue in it. Hebrews makes that pretty clear as well as I John. No I won't immediately lose my salvation if I sin. But if I continue in it? Watch out, I am headed toward destruction. Paul says that in Gallations.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don’t think your concerned for us. I think you like your bubble and are protecting your self.

I've been concerned about that false doctrine for years. How come you don't know any scriptures to prove your beliefs?

 

[1stcenturylady]

.
Does a Slave have the ability to choose for himself?

We never lose our free will.

2 Timothy 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[JIMINZ]

We never lose our free will.

Timothy 2:21
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You bolded the front verse when it is the latter that is the point.

 

[JIMINZ]

You bolded the front verse when it is the latter that is the point.

.
Then what was the point of the verse?

 

[SBC]

Well, I have been busy...at my job.

So, I took a quick look.

I found this, below, from the webpage: Can a true Christian sin or not? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

It pretty much sums it up for what I believe...So, instead of trying to explain it myself....here is the meat of it....

• Yes, he can sin
  • 1 John 1:8-10
    • "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NASB)
    • "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)
• No, he cannot sin
  • 1 John 3:9,
    • "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
    • "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)
  • 1 John 5:18,
    • "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." (NASB)
    • "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." (NKJV)

Is John contradicting himself when he says in one verse that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves (1 John 1:8), and yet he also says the one who is a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18 NKJV)? There is no contradiction, but to see why we will need to look at the original Greek language.



Conclusion
There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.

Finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He would then be self-deceived.

So, to avoid confusion..... I fall into sin. I don't wake up and plan to sin. I sin, knowingly, from time to time, and unintentionally at other times.

I do not need to get "re-born again" ... But, I do need to reconnect with Christ and fess up to what I have done and ask to be forgiven.......regularly.

Thanks for your reply.

I totally DISAGREE with your commentary and conclusion.

1 John 1:8
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

"IF WE SAY< ---- > WE HAVE NO SIN"...

WHO HAS SAID -----> THEY HAVE NO SIN?

ME? NO! --- ^THAT would be totally FALSE!

I SAID ---> I WAS BORN IN SIN.

I SAID ---> I HAVE COMMITTED SIN.

IS THAT SAYING I HAVE NO SIN? NO!

SO ---> DOES 1 John 1:8 apply to me? NO!

FACT #1--->
I have NOT been DECEiVED!

Fact # 2 ---> I "WAS" dead "in sins" and transgressions

Fact # 3 ---> I "confessed" "my sins" "to" God.

Fact # 4 ---> I "was FORGIVEN" "ALL my sins" "BY" God.

Fact # 5 ---> "I TRUST God" is "NOT A LIAR".

Fact # 6 ---> "I TRUST Gods Word "IS TRUE".

Fact # 7 ---> "MY SINS ARE FORGIVEN".

Fact # 8 ---> "THIS APPLIES TO ME!" --->

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2
[8] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1 John 2
[12] I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1John 2
[13] I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1 John 2
[14] I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 2
[17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 2
[20] But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
[21] I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 2
[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:

1 John 3
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God

1John 3
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 4
[13] Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

I SIN NO MORE!

YOUR COMMENTARY GIVES A FALSE RENDITION!

Your presented commentary says;

"any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8"

IS A LIE. An IGNORANT LIE. 1 John 1:8, says NOTHING about "sinning anymore".
1 John 1:8, says one CLAIMING, to "HAVE NO SIN"!

Your presented commentary says;

What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle.

IS A LIE. An IGNORANT LIE. 1 John 1:9 says NOTHING about "he may fall into it" (sin) or "habitually abiding in sin" or "practicing a lifestyle".

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your presented commentary;
Is twisted and ignorant and a lie on it's face.
According to your commentary; A man claiming he "has NO sin", is the same man WHO asks for forgiveness "of his sin".
A man who "asks God for forgiveness of his sin", is the same man "God forgives all of his sin, but, but, but, the man continues to sin".

Your presented commentary; IS CLAIMING; Gods forgiveness of all of a mans sin is a fail.

Your presented commentary; IS CLAIMING; After God has forgiven a man of all of his sins, and cleansed the man with Jesus' Blood, and anointed the man, and sanctified the man wholly........that Gods forgiveness, anointing, sanctification, FAILED....and nothing within the man has changed.....because your presented commentary CLAIMS, the man STILL SINS! <---> WHICH IS A DIRECT CONTRADICTION of GODS WORD!

Your presented commentary; TEACHES A LIE.

Your presented commentary; TEACHES:
"TRUST the TRUTH" - but, but, but, - "BELIEVE you STILL SIN"!

Your presented commentary; TEACHES:
"TRUST the TRUTH" - but, but, but, - "TRUST yourself MORE" !

Your presented commentary; TEACHES:
"TRUST the TRUTH" - but, but, but, - "DON'T TRUST the Word of God"!

Your presented commentary; TEACHES:
"TRUST the "TRUTH" - but, but, but, - "TRUST your commentator MORE".

What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin.

AND HERE is the commentator's ...... BUT.....LIE.

He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle.

What a pack of LIES. John SAYS NOTHING whatsoever about a man born of God, FALLING INTO SIN, or OCCASIONALLY practicing SIN!

What John SAID: is;

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Fact is: Your presented commentary is a lie.
It tries to apply "one claiming to HAVE no sin", as the "same one who claims to have sin, and confesses his sin to God".

It then tries to apply "one forgiven their sin" as "the same who continues to sin".

It then tries to apply "one forgiven their sin" as "the same who continues to sin, BUT, not habitually", but, but, but; only sometimes;
and that's okay, because, you know better than God.
You know, you are weak, and you are still going to sin.
You know, dead men sin.
You know, God didn't really mean all of your sins were forgiven.
You know, you were 'not really Crucified with Christ".
You know, God dwells within you.
You know, God dwells IN you WHILE, you "occasionally, fall and sin".
You know, God must keep a bucket of Christ's blood to Cleanse you REPEATEDLY!
Because You know, better than God!

The fact is: your presented commentary; CHANGES the TRUTH into a LIE.
The fact is: your presented commentary; IS SAYING; TRUST the (created) man writing the commentary OVER and ABOVE TRUSTING GOD (creator).

• Rom 1
• [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The fact is: your presented commentary; has changed the TRUTH of God into a LIE.
The fact is: your commentator; IS THE DECEIVER.
The fact is: Gods Word says, a man born of God; CAN NOT SIN.
The fact is: your commentator; says Gods Word is a lie, and that YOU CAN SIN.

It pretty much sums it up for what I believe.

I fall into sin. I don't wake up and plan to sin. I sin, knowingly, from time to time, and unintentionally at other times.

It is too bad for you, that you have been duped, and trust a deceiver's word
OVER Gods Word.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

Thanks for your reply.

I totally DISAGREE with your commentary and conclusion.

I didn't expect any different.

God Bless..

I'm done here. Thanks for the debate.

 

[SBC]

We never lose our free will.

2 Timothy 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Was it your free will to give your life to God?
Did you know you were choosing to crucify that old body of sin with Christ?
Did you know you would be living your life In Christ's pure body?
Did you know your old body would be dead to sin?
Did you know your old body was forgiven, washed in Jesus' BLOOD, covered, anointed, sanctified, saved and kept with Christ?
Did you know the Spirit of God would dwell in you?
Did you know God would quicken you, give you a new life, with His Seed?
Did you know having Gods Seed, would birth you a new spirit?
Did you know your old body is dead, and your new spirit is forever alive?
Did you know Dead body's do not sin?
Did you know YOU CAN NOT SIN, having a DEAD BODY, AND spiritual Birth by Gods Seed?

If yes to these questions, then why do you testify, your old body testifies of you NOW?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

I didn't expect any different.

God Bless..

I'm done here. Thanks for the debate.

Excellent!

Then we are part from the discussion in agreement;

I am born of God, and can not sin, according to Scripture and Gods Word.
You are born of God, but continue to sin, according to your word and another mans word, who is a commentator.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Neogaia777]

Was it your free will to give your life to God?
Did you know you were choosing to crucify that old body of sin with Christ?
Did you know you would be living your life In Christ's pure body?
Did you know your old body would be dead to sin?
Did you know your old body was forgiven, washed in Jesus' BLOOD, covered, anointed, sanctified, saved and kept with Christ?
Did you know the Spirit of God would dwell in you?
Did you know God would quicken you, give you a new life, with His Seed?
Did you know having Gods Seed, would birth you a new spirit?
Did you know your old body is dead, and your new spirit is forever alive?
Did you know Dead body's do not sin?
Did you know YOU CAN NOT SIN, having a DEAD BODY, AND spiritual Birth by Gods Seed?

If yes to these questions, then why do you testify, your old body testifies of you NOW?

God Bless,
SBC

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't...? (to the first question)...

As for the others, did she have to use her free will to believe, and know those things at every step, or was she predestined to believe/know it...? And, does it not occur in "steps"...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Excellent!

Then we are part from the discussion in agreement;

I am born of God, and can not sin, according to Scripture and Gods Word.
You are born of God, but continue to sin, according to your word and another mans word, who is a commentator.

God Bless,
SBC

Do you sin...?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I've been concerned about that false doctrine for years. How come you don't know any scriptures to prove your beliefs?

Colossians 3:5-6 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

Proverbs 28:13 People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.

Hosea 5:15 Then I will return to my place until they admit their guilt and turn to me. For as soon as trouble comes, they will earnestly search for me.”

1 John 1:7-9 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

 

[Neogaia777]

Colossians 3:5-6 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

Proverbs 28:13 People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.

Hosea 5:15 Then I will return to my place until they admit their guilt and turn to me. For as soon as trouble comes, they will earnestly search for me.”

1 John 1:7-9 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

I really like how you included some OT verses with this,

Excellent Job!

God Bless!

 

[SBC]

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't...? (to the first question)...

As for the others, did she have to use her free will to believe, and know those things at every step, or was she predestined to believe/know it...? And, does it not occur in "steps"...?

God Bless!

To the first question;
If someone drug her to the alter, or otherwise forced her to confess....It would have not been her free will. Only she can answer that.

To the other questions;
If she did not freely choose to learn what she was committing to.......that is widely published and spoken around the whole world.....then why commit to anything one does not know what the commitment means?

Would you commit to having someone crucify your body? And then say, oh, I didn't know what that meant?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Do you sin...?

Not any more.

God Bless,
SBC