Agreed. But it's the beast that ascends, not Abaddon.
What do you disagree with in the evidence in post 127?
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Agreed. But it's the beast that ascends, not Abaddon.
What do you disagree with in the evidence in post 127?
There is no POPE in the bottomless pit...but angel Abaddon is mentioned [Revelation 9:11][Revelation 17:8]
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The beast is a symbol of the papacy. Just like the bottomless pit is a symbol of the habitation of evil. If it were a literal bottomless pit, its bottom would open out on the other side of the earth, and anything or anyone inside would fall out there as well.
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The 490 years from Dan.9.24-27 pertains to the ENTIRE DESTINY in the restoration of Israel, to the reconciliation with God, which you fail to comprehend. Verse 27 has not yet been fulfilled. Verse 24 has not been fulfilled yet, and will not be fulfilled until the Second Coming of Christ, when they are reconciled to God, recorded in Zech.12:10. The following pertains to the reasons for the 70 week prophecy documented below:
The reasons of God for the 70 Weeks prophecy
In reaching a correct understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, it is necessary to understand the circumstances that occasioned the giving of this revelation by God to Daniel. No one questions that it relates to Israel’s Babylonian captivity for failure to observe the sabbatical year, given to Israel by the Lord. But how does that relate to the 70-weeks prophecy? As part of the stipulations in the Mosaic Law Code, Israel was to let her land lay fallow every seventh year.
“Speak to the sons of Israel, and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the Lord. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard. Your harvest’s aftergrowth you shall not reap, and your grapes of untrimmed vines you shall not gather; the land shall have a sabbatical year. And all of you shall have the sabbath products of the land for food; yourself, and your male and female slaves, and your hired man and your foreign resident, those who live as aliens with you’” (Lev. 25:2-6).
Leviticus 26 provides the sanctions that God would impose upon Israel for the years that they did not obey the specifications of a sabbatical year.
"Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it." (Lev. 26:34-35).
"For the land shall be abandoned by them, and shall make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, shall be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes." (Lev. 26:43).
The Lord clearly revealed to Israel on how they were keeping or not keeping His Law in the historical book of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles and why Israel was sent away to Babylon for 70 years in the following passage:
"And those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. all the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete." (2 Chr. 36:20-21).
What passage in Jeremiah was the statement in Chronicles referring to? The following two references provide the answer.
And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years (Jer. 25:11).
For thus says the Lord, “When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place.” (Jer. 29:10).
It is clear from the above passages that God had a specific reason behind the deportation of the Southern Kingdom (Judah) to Babylon for 70 years. This would mean that Israel violated the sabbatical year 70 times. The Jews entered the Promised Land around 1450 b.c. and were deported to Babylon around 600 b.c. This means that they were in the land about 850 years before the Babylonian deportation. Had they disobeyed the sabbatical year commandment every seventh year, it would mean that they should have been in captivity for more than 121 years. Instead, they were held captive for 70 years, meaning that they were disobedient for only 490 of the 850 years in the land. This would mean that there were breaks or gaps in the accumulation of the 490 years, during the 850-year period, that resulted in Israel’s 70-year captivity. Why is this important? Because many of the critics of the literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 insist that it is unreasonable to have gaps in that 490-year period. Which is false, since there were many gaps in the 490-year period related to the Babylonian Captivity.
Critics of a Future 70th Week
Preterist Gary DeMar is one of the most outspoken critics of a yet future 70th week of Daniel. DeMar argues that there are never any gaps in any time periods in Scripture that he examines. He declares, “If we can find no gaps in the sequence of years in these examples, then how can a single exception be made with the ‘seventy weeks’ in Daniel 9:24-27?” Interestingly, DeMar does not examine the 490-year period that took place during the 850 years of Israel’s occupation of the land as mentioned above. As I have noted, there are all kinds of gaps within this sequence. There were roughly 360 years of gaps interspersed throughout the 850-year period. This makes it directly related to the 70-weeks prophecy given to Daniel. DeMar acknowledges that Daniel’s 70-weeks are related to the violation of the sabbatical year laws of Leviticus 25 and 26, and connected to 2 Chronicles 36 and Jeremiah 25. But he fails to observe the fact that the 490 years of Daniel 9:24-27 are derived from the 490 years of Israel’s violation of the sabbatical years prescribed by God, over the 850 years they became a nation, in His covenant with the nation.
Dr. Harold Hoehner answers critics like DeMar when he notes that “The seventy-year captivity was due to the Jews having violated seventy sabbatical years over a total of a 490 year period out of 850 years they were a nation, and Daniel now saw seventy units of sevens decreed for another 490 years into Israel’s future.” Hoehner has diagramed this relationship as noted in the “Units of Seventy” chart below.
We also know that Daniel himself was familiar with the reason why God had sent His people into the Babylonian captivity from the first part of Daniel 9.
In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans-in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. So I gave my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes (Dan. 9:1-3).
Dr. Leon Wood explains this matter as follows:
Since Daniel was thinking in terms of the seventy-year captivity, as a Hebrew, could have easily moved from the idea of one week of years to seventy weeks of years. This follows because, according to 2 Chronicles 36:21, the people had been punished by this Exile so that their land might enjoy the sabbath rests which had not been observed in their prior history (cf. Lev. 26:33-35, Jer. 34:12-22). Knowing this, Daniel would have recognized that the seventy years of the Exile represented seventy sevens of years in which these violations had transpired; and he would have understood Gabriel to be saying, simply, that another period, similar in length to that which had made the Exile necessary, was coming in the experienced of the people.
Even though DeMar recognizes the cause for Daniel’s prayer and the subsequent revelation of the angel Gabriel to Daniel of the 70-weeks prophecy, he fails to recognize that the 70-year captivity was based upon a 490-year period that occurred out of a total of 850 years they were a nation, contained multiple gaps of time.
DeMar argues that a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel is not justified because there are not other examples of this in Scripture. Which justifies such a gap as an example that other gaps occur in the Scriptures as well. An example has not only been found, but it is directly related to the 70-weeks prophecy of Daniel. Thus, using DeMar’s standard, he should recognize that a gap in Daniel 9:24-27 is justifiable.
Gary DeMar goes on to insist that it is impossible to have any kind of gap or chronological postponement of time between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel. As has already been noted, the text says nothing about "a period between the sixty-ninth and seventieth-weeks." There can be no "period between" any time period, whether seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, or years unless a period of time is expressly given. It is impossible to insert time between the end of one year and the beginning of another. January 1st follows December 31st at the stroke of midnight. There is no "period between" the conclusion of one year and the beginning of the next year. Culver, therefore, begs the question. He first must prove that a period of time should be placed between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks before he can maintain that there is a "period between" the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. The "simple language of the text" makes no mention of a gap."
However, there is clear evidence why the 70th week of Daniel is yet future and, thus, the necessity of a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week. Just as Gary DeMar and others who do not think that Daniel 9:24-27 can be taken literally are mistaken. Daniel 9:24-27 allows for a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week because the advancing of God’s program relating to His people Israel was put on hold and will be postponed until a future time. Primarily, because Israel ceased to be a nation after 70 A.D. until reestablished on May 14, 1948. Apparently critics like DeMar are not able to see the time gaps of the past, like the one demonstrated in this article, so it is not surprising that they do not understand how there is one in God’s future plan for His people Israel.
By Dr. Thomas Ice, Phd.
From: http://raptureready.com/featured/ice/70-weeks-4.html
Quasar92
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It wasn't.
It was fulfilled about 40 years earlier.
Daniel 9:27
"And he [Jesus] will make a firm covenant with the many for one week [week 70], but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering [via his sacrifice on the Cross, by which he was 'cut off']"
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Here's what really happened:
The 70 weeks are determined To do these things:
1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy
1. Finish the Transgression.
Recall that to begin with, the Jews were in captivity for 490 years because of not honoring the Sabbath - they didn't give the land rest every seven years. The 70 years of capitivity in Babylon gave the land its rest. This is in 2 Chronicles 36- it's a whole lot of verses. Then God gives them another 490 years - maybe this time is their last chance.
2. Make an End of Sins.
Though we still sin, our sins no longer have power to prevent us from salvation. Jesus, by fulfilling the Law, ended sins strength. Sin is now utterly powerless.
3. Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Only Jesus could do this. He came to make reconciliation for us.
4. Bring in Everlasting Righteousness
Jesus Himself said that He fulfilled all righteousness.
5. Seal up the Vision and Prophecy
Contrary to what most teach about this passage, "seal up" doesn't mean to hide it from men's understanding until the last days. From Strong's, seal is [2856] chatham: meaning to close up, make an end of, stop. So Jesus made the end of this vision and prophecy. It doesn't say "all visions and prophecies" for you naysayers. It says "the vision..."
6. Anoint the Most Holy
Again, Jesus was anointed at His baptism in Mark 1. He is the Most Holy.
The 70 weeks ran consecutive, are complete, and lie behind us.
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Review my post #144 that soundly refutes you. Any Idea my views are not 100% in alignment with the Scriptures, is false. I will provide you with a listings of many highly esteemed men of God, from every walk of Christia teachings who fully endorse them, if it suits you.
Quasar92
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Go ahead.
Show me as many scholarly opinions, commentaries and concordances as you can find that, like you, claim Luke 21:20-22 does NOT pertain to the 70AD fall of Jerusalem.
I'll set my stopwatch and grab the popcorn.
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It is obvious you have made up your mind as to what you think the Scriptures say, in spite of the Scriptural facts in my post of #144 that refute you. In addition to that, Christ DOES NOT confirm any seven year covenant with many, in verse 27!
Who confirms a covenant with many?
What is it that "he" will do? The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.
If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:
Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.
This passage clearly says that the length of the covenant that "he" will make will be for one week or seven years. I suppose that this could mean either that the covenant will be predetermined to last seven years or that it does not specify a length of time when made, but as it turns out, is only in existence for seven years. Many of those who believe that the entire prophecy of the seventy weeks has already been fulfilled around the time of Christ’s first coming teach that the first half of the seventieth week was fulfilled by Christ’s ministry. "We know Christ’s three-and-one-half-year ministry," says Dr. Gentry, "was decidedly focused on the Jews in the first half of the seventieth week (Matt. 10:5b; cf. Matt. 15:24)." G. H. Pember objects to such a view with the following:
Once again we have seen in this installment on the seventy weeks that the text of this passage supports a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seventieth week is still future to the time in which we now live. "Israel has now been reestablished as a nation (1948), suggesting that the seventieth seven may soon begin." Maranatha!
By: Thomas Ice, PhD.
Source: http://www.raptureme.com/featured/70-weeks-9.html [This link has been taken down]
Quasar92
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Verse 24 has not been fulfilled yet and won't be ubtil Jesus second coming, as my post #144 documents. Verse #27 has not been fulfilled yet either, until after the Church is raptured, as recorded in 1 Thess.4:16-17; Jn.14:2-3, 28 and 2 Thess.2:2-3 nd in 7-8.
Quasar92
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Lk.21:20-22 is part of Jesus Olivet Discourse to Israel of the final 3.5 years of the coming tribulation, that HAS NOT YET taken place. That describes the AoD in verse Mt.24:15; the description of it as the worst that will ever take place, in verse 21, the cosmic disturbances in verse 28 and Jesus return in His second coming to he earth. Which ws Jesus reponse to His disciples questions as to the signs of the END OF THE AGE, and of HIS RETURN. Give me your Scriptural proof of that all taking place in 70 A.D., genius.
Fully endorsed by the following esteemed men of God, from every walk of Christian teaching:
1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.
Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.
Quasar92
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Revelation 13 tell us that the reign of the Beast will spend a time period of 42 MONTHS who will precede the Coming Of Jesus...
Revelation 13:3-5
3 And [I saw] one of his heads as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed: and the whole earth wondered after the beast; 4 and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?
5 and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.
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The 490 years were consecutive and started when the order was given to rebuild the Temple.
Their refusal to accept Jesus The Messiah have caused their desolation ...as prophesied in Daniel 9:23-27....Jerusalem and the Temple have been destroyed by the Roman army and 1.2 million Jews have been massacred ...in a flood of blood.
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And every one of them a newby modernist born after 1800.
"...from every walk of Christian teaching"
I don't seem to see any covenant nondispensationalists. You must have missed that walk.
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Let's deal with post 127 first. The evidence there is first found in Daniel 7. What do you disagree with?
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Daniel 7:25 precise that the dominion [reign]of the Little Horn -will be a time and times and half a time [3 1/2 years = 42 months]- ....which is exactly the same period of time mentioned in Revelation 13 ....thus Daniel 7 is not about the Papacy.
Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.
Revelation 13:5-9
5 and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth for blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, [even] them that dwell in the heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.
8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
9 If any man hath an ear, let him hear.
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I agree that we need to resolve these additional issues. But for the moment, considering only the evidence in post 127, is there anything there that you disagree with?
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By ignoring key scriptures [these additional issues post #157]I think that the "reformers" have done a willingly sloppy work ... they obviously had a goal for doing it.
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You have a serious problem of making fiction out of what you attempt to qote what others have written. Whsat I said, was the listings of esteemed men of God from every walk of Christian teaching, NOT BELIEVERS OF EVERY WALK OF CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS!
Don't try to put words in my mouth! Capiche?!
Quasar92
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