Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

ToBeLoved

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I have never thought Paul was speaking that he presently sinned more than anyone else, meaning "chief." He would literally be admitting he wasn't even a Christian. He would have no right to write any epistle on the Christian walk. Besides, he would be contradicting what he has said regarding sin.
Can I ask how and why Jesus made Peter the rock that Christ built His church upon, when Jesus told Peter He would deny Him three times and not only did Peter reply , ‘Never Lord’ and then did just that but was warned in advance by Jesus he would do it.

In your theology, Peter would be willfully sinning.
 
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RaymondG

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What you have said is absolutely correct. As Christians we are forgiven, but we still sin.

Some on this thread have said that still sin but as Christians they are no longer sinners. That is wrong. If you sin--and we all sin--then you are a sinner. Forgiven, yes, but a sinner nonetheless.
Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Do you believe Christ has done this yet? If So, what is your definition of being saved from sin?
 
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Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Do you believe Christ has done this yet? If So, what is your definition of being saved from sin?
I’ve stated this already—being forgiven.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Can I ask how and why Jesus made Peter the rock that Christ built His church upon, when Jesus told Peter He would deny Him three times and not only did Peter reply , ‘Never Lord’ and then did just that but was warned in advance by Jesus he would do it.

In your theology, Peter would be willfully sinning.

That was before the crucifixion wasn't it? And Peter repented bitterly. Without the Holy Spirit we sin. When did Peter receive the Holy Spirit?
 
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1stcenturylady

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My questioning was why you said that our justification in Christ does not cover ALL sins.

You said it does not I believe, so if the price is spiritual death then in your theory Christ would cut us loose each time we sin. Because the price of sin is spiritual death.

So how do you figure that we always have the Holy Spirit if Christ doesn’t constantly and always justify us from the beginning

What willful sins would you be committing if you walked in the Spirit and you are dead to sin? Romans 6:2 and Romans 8:8-9? Did Jesus plan on you to continuously sin in rebellion when He has given you His Spirit who never sins?

2 Peter 1:9 "For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins." (And that is ALL of his old sins. There is no sin too bad before coming to Christ that would make Him not cleanse you and give you His Spirit.)
 
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ToBeLoved

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That was before the crucifixion wasn't it? And Peter repented bitterly. Without the Holy Spirit we sin. When did Peter receive the Holy Spirit?
The question is not whether Peter sinned, the question is

"Why after Peter's sin, did Jesus Christ, God Himself call Peter the rock that He would build His Church upon"

Because if God, who Jesus Christ is did not believe that He died for willful sin, like Peter's than wouldn't Christ be being dishonest in that He would build His Church upon a man who would do right to His Face what He would not justify us for later, after His death?

How does that make sense in the understanding that Jesus Christ is God and perfect? That would be God contridicting His own rules that He would soon be putting into the New Covenant.

God doesn't contridict Himself.
 
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ToBeLoved

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What sins would you be committing if you walked in the Spirit and you are dead to sin? Romans 6:2 and Romans 8:8-9? Did Jesus plan on you to continuously sin when He has given you His Spirit who never sins?

2 Peter 1:9 "For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."
Why are you asking me to answer a question that is not even my hyothesis or theology?

You tell me you never lie to your boss about that you are sick. Or that you never want what someone else has, a car, a house, children, a happy marriage or shoes, or anything.

Let's go through each of the ten commandments because you are not holding yourself to the perfection of them if you say you do not sin. Never not love your neighbor, not love anyone. Never are selfish, give your money to those in need, the least of these who are hungry, widows orphans, helping everyone who needs help. Never being selfish.

You are putting yourself right in line with the perfect life after salvation that Christ lived, so let's talk about your life and mine and let's be honest.

I don't want to talk hypotheticals. Let's talk life, each day how we live and be honest.

You game? I am
 
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1stcenturylady

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The question is not whether Peter sinned, the question is

"Why after Peter's sin, did Jesus Christ, God Himself call Peter the rock that He would build His Church upon"

Because if God, who Jesus Christ is did not believe that He died for willful sin, like Peter's than wouldn't Christ be being dishonest in that He would build His Church upon a man who would do right to His Face what He would not justify us for later, after His death?

How does that make sense in the understanding that Jesus Christ is God and perfect? That would be God contridicting His own rules that He would soon be putting into the New Covenant.

God doesn't contridict Himself.

Jesus KNEW Peter would sin, but He also KNEW that Peter would repent. It is called foreknowledge.

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

The knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God is the rock. Jesus is the cornerstone, not Peter.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Why are you asking me to answer a question that is not even my hyothesis or theology?

You tell me you never lie to your boss about that you are sick. Or that you never want what someone else has, a car, a house, children, a happy marriage or shoes, or anything.

Let's go through each of the ten commandments because you are not holding yourself to the perfection of them if you say you do not sin. Never not love your neighbor, not love anyone. Never are selfish, give your money to those in need, the least of these who are hungry, widows orphans, helping everyone who needs help. Never being selfish.

You are putting yourself right in line with the perfect life after salvation that Christ lived, so let's talk about your life and mine and let's be honest.

I don't want to talk hypotheticals. Let's talk life, each day how we live and be honest.

You game? I am

The scriptures that I quoted are NOT in your theology? What book is your theology based on?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Why are you asking me to answer a question that is not even my hyothesis or theology?

You tell me you never lie to your boss about that you are sick. Or that you never want what someone else has, a car, a house, children, a happy marriage or shoes, or anything.

Let's go through each of the ten commandments because you are not holding yourself to the perfection of them if you say you do not sin. Never not love your neighbor, not love anyone. Never are selfish, give your money to those in need, the least of these who are hungry, widows orphans, helping everyone who needs help. Never being selfish.

You are putting yourself right in line with the perfect life after salvation that Christ lived, so let's talk about your life and mine and let's be honest.

I don't want to talk hypotheticals. Let's talk life, each day how we live and be honest.

You game? I am

Sorry, but I am not going to brag about my life. You have no idea, and it is not up to us to SAY we don't sin, but to show it with our life for others to judge.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Jesus KNEW Peter would sin, but He also KNEW that Peter would repent. It is called foreknowledge.

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

The knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God is the rock. Jesus is the cornerstone, not Peter.
Show that Peter repented for this particular sin in the Bible.

This other verse has nothing to do with the previous verses it is a different context and situation.

So let's get back to Peter denying Jesus three times and Christ building His Church upon Peter after willful sin.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sorry, but I am not going to brag about my life. You have no idea, and it is not up to us to SAY we don't sin, but to show it with out life for others to judge.
So your life is so perfect, like Christ's that you would be bragging about all the wonderful things God is doing in your life each and every day and how loving and perfect you are that you keep all of God's commands perfectly as Christ did?

You are Jesus Christ's mini-me.

Why not brag, I'm sure others will be very inspired by all the love and perfection you do in the world and for God's Kingdom each day.

Perfection often inspires. So inspire me please.

I promise I will not judge you for being perfect and like Christ if that is what you are, like God Himself, Jesus Christ every moment of every second of every day, week, year and decade.

I'll be impressed and I don't impress easy.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Show that Peter repented for this particular sin in the Bible.

This other verse has nothing to do with the previous verses it is a different context and situation.

So let's get back to Peter denying Jesus three times and Christ building His Church upon Peter after willful sin.

Matthew 26:75 "And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly."

That is repentance.
 
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1stcenturylady

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So your life is so perfect, like Christ's that you would be bragging about all the wonderful things God is doing in your life each and every day and how loving and perfect you are that you keep all of God's commands perfectly as Christ did?

You are Jesus Christ's mini-me.

Why not brag, I'm sure others will be very inspired by all the love and perfection you do in the world and for God's Kingdom each day.

Perfection often inspires. So inspire me please.

Sorry, anyone can discern your motives are not what you say.
 
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ToBeLoved

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The scriptures that I quoted are NOT in your theology? What book is your theology based on?
They are part of scripture and Bible verses, but they must be in context.

So I'm saying you do not understand them correctly.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sorry, anyone can discern your motives are not what you say.
Well, you just called me a liar, which is bearing false witness against me, because my motives are true and GOD KNOWS THAT, but you are not perfect like God and you have broken the Law and sinned.

So, you just proved yourself a sinner.

So please don't tell me how you don't sin. You sin 5 minutes after you tell me how you NEVER sin.
 
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1stcenturylady

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They are part of scripture and Bible verses, but they must be in context.

So I'm saying you do not understand them correctly.

Okay, so take those verses and explain them.

Romans 6:2

Romans 8:8-9
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well, you just called me a liar, which is bearing false witness against me, because my motives are true and GOD KNOWS THAT, but you are not perfect like God and you have broken the Law and sinned.

So, you just proved yourself a sinner.

No, because it was the truth. Who is the sinner? Judge yourself and see.
 
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