Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[ToBeLoved]

I believe Paul was still feeling the guilt of having put so many Christians to death before he met Christ. Did he mean he still sinned? Wasn't he the same person who wrote we are dead to sin? If someone is dead to sin, they are no longer a sinner, unless they go into complete rebellion against God. Did Paul ever do that?

We are dead to sin in that sin can no longer separate us from God because of the justification of Christ. Dead to the consequences of sin, separation from God.

Not that we do not sin.

Christ's blood is our justification.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I wouldn't suggest that anyone was or wasn't a sinner.....Whether they be in the bible or not. I only asked a questions about a statement that was made. If you say you are one who sins and know you will sin in the future....I say, you are right and i believe you. I would not, however, believe that everyone would be in this same condition.

You specfically were talking about Paul in your post and said just because he was the chief of sinners doesn't mean that Paul sinned.

In that, you are saying that doesn't mean Paul sinned, however, Paul called himself a sinner, not only that but the chief of sinners.

 

[RaymondG]

YOU SAY:

You specfically were talking about Paul in your post and said just because he was the chief of sinners doesn't mean that Paul sinned.

This is the post you are referring to UNCHANGED:

Good questions.

Just because Paul said that he was Chief of sinners does it necessarily implies that he was a sinner as well? Does a Chief carry the same title of the subjects? Would the savior or head over sinners, have to be a sinner as well? Not that obvious to me.

As most should be able to see, I only asked questions and stated that the answers werent that clear to me.

I dont make exclamations about scripture, I know only what God shows me..and, therefore, there is no reason to boost in this knowledge or expect that anyone else should see things like I do, knowing that had it not been revealed to me ...I wouldnt see it this way either....

But when you have man's wisdom.....wisdom you studied hard to acquire... this wisdom, you want others to accept and take your word for without question....and if they dont, you get upset.

 

[Archivist]

The Lord's Prayer is a powerful teaching of how to prayer.....as opposed to what should be repeated while praying.

I think the majority of Christians would disagree with you. I is part of the liturgy of the church I attend and many others.

This particular line shows us that, to be forgiven, we have to forgive our Brothers. This same sentiment is taught throughout the gospels and scriptures....e.g. the parable of the Man who was forgiven a big debt but then was thrown in jail because he refused to forgive the little debt of a servant.... etc... Very powerful when understood. I dont see the relations to someone sinning and then asking for forgiveness.....

So you don't ask for forgiveness of your sins?

 

[ToBeLoved]

YOU SAY:

This is the post you are referring to UNCHANGED:

As most should be able to see, I only asked questions and stated that the answers werent that clear to me.

I dont make exclamations about scripture, I know only what God shows me..and, therefore, there is no reason to boost in this knowledge or expect that anyone else should see things like I do, knowing that had it not been revealed to me ...I wouldnt see it this way either....

But when you have man's wisdom.....wisdom you studied hard to acquire... this wisdom, you want others to accept and take your word for without question....and if they dont, you get upset.

I'm not upset. I was asking questions.

I'm sorry that offended you. I won't bother you again.

Be blesssed.

 

[RaymondG]

I think the majority of Christians would disagree with you. I is part of the liturgy of the church I attend and many others.

I agree with you, most christians would disagree with me. I use to walk a path that had many followers and many people that agreed. I have been taken off this path, by no will of my own, and put on this dark lonely path. Sometimes i want to run back into the crowd, but I cant. So I will tarry in the darkness unto I am shown the great light.

So you don't ask for forgiveness of your sins?

Not sure how you got this from my statements. I never implied that I do or do not sin, nor that I do or do not ask for forgiveness for sins I may or may not commit. If you are interested in my personal walk with God, we can discuss, but if you believe I implied any of the above...you are mistaken.

Maybe a better question would be, Do I forgive my brothers for any sins I believe they commit against me.....Cause if I dont, it wouldnt matter what the answer to your question is.....I would not be forgiven regardless ..

 

[RaymondG]

I'm not upset. I was asking questions.

I'm sorry that offended you. I won't bother you again.

Be blesssed.

I was speaking in general for "the reader." I havent considered your emotional state.....(which, maybe i should do more) and therefore did not believe you to be angry. You dont have to worry about offending me either....a fruit of the spirit is slowness to get angry and swiftness to show mercy. I will have to start my first works over when reading words can move me to anger.

I was trying to explain, perhaps poorly, that I did not make the statement you said i made, and why I dont/wouldnt make such statements.

 

[JacksBratt]

I agree with you, most christians would disagree with me. I use to walk a path that had many followers and many people that agreed. I have been taken off this path, by no will of my own, and put on this dark lonely path. Sometimes i want to run back into the crowd, but I cant. So I will tarry in the darkness unto I am shown the great light.

Sorry that you feel like you are "away from the crowd" and "in darkness".

However, I really don't know what you mean by that.

 

[JIMINZ]

it's not about the definition of sin but the definition of sinner! that's where you guys are butting heads. sin is falling short of the glory of God POINT BLANK PERIOD. and we all do it! believer and non believer but the difference between a sinner and a saint is that a sinner lives in sin! a sinner practices sin and a sinner isn't IN CHRIST!

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Hi Shaheem

I'm sorry, but (It Is) about the Definition is Sin, for without a working understanding of what sin actually is, there is't a way of determining when you are free from sin.

That (POINT BLANK PERIOD) sounds pretty definite, but if your going to Teach others, that falling short of the Glory of God is the Definition of sin, then you will need to verify your Teaching with the Scripture Verse, where it does in fact say, what your saying it does.

You say, there is a difference between a Sinner and a Saint, but then you say BOTH Sin.

I for one, only see two Sinners, and to use your Definition of Sin.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Your Definition isn't clearly Defined, as to, at what point does a Christian know in his heart, that he has been FREED From Sin?

Or is it your belief a Christian is never Freed from sin?

You see, your Teaching without verification is inadequate.

God Bless

 

[RaymondG]

Sorry that you feel like you are "away from the crowd" and "in darkness".

However, I really don't know what you mean by that.

I'm sorry that I was content being a part of the multitude for as long as I did. A lot of time wasted, a lot of ground to make up....But I plan to see it to to end.

The people who sat in darkness saw great light....

 

[JacksBratt]

What does being dead to sin mean to you?

Please see post # 101 on page six.

That sin is just not imputed to you? That you can still sin and it is covered by the blood? That isn't the true gospel. He who is made free, is free indeed. Free how? To keep on sinning? Or to be free from the struggle not to sin because the desire has been crucified?

Have you never had to ask for forgiveness, since you were saved? I mean from anyone or Christ. If you have, then, you have sinned.

Do you think that you lose your salvation if you sin? Do you think that being saved and having the Holy Spirit in your heart makes you unable to sin?

We sin..... period. Christians and non Christians... all humans sin.

We Christians are under no condemnation due to our salvation. This is NOT a license to sin but our salvation is for all our sins.

Yes, I ask for forgiveness from Christ all the time, for my sins. It is not due to my fear of losing my salvation. It is due to my separation from fellowship with God and my shame that I have done it.

I also give and ask for forgiveness from other people in my life.. because I wrong them from time to time.

Please examine your doctrine. What you have now is just a bandaid over pus. That diminishes the power of the blood of Jesus.

You diminish the power of the blood of Christ if you think that it cannot save me from all my sins.

I have eternal life and it started the moment I asked Christ to forgive my sins and gave my life to Him..... It doesn't mean that I am unable to sin....

If what you are saying is true... I don't know one person who is saved...not one.

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm sorry that I was content being a part of the multitude for as long as I did. A lot of time wasted, a lot of ground to make up....But I plan to see it to to end.

The people who sat in darkness saw great light....

I'm still not getting what you are talking about.

 

[SBC]

Are you saying that you always perfectly obey God? In order to be perfect one must sell all they own, and give to the poor. How many times can your brother sin against you and still be forgiven? Seven times? Matthew 18:21-22

What I said was, do not grieve the Holy Spirit.
How did you translate to always perfectly obey God?
Have you sold all you own and given to the poor?
How do you forgive a brother of sin?

Mark 2
[7] .... who can forgive sins but God only?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[frettr00]

I agree.

I disagree.

I have in fact commited mortal sins while being a Christian. I don't anymore and hope I never will again, but it does happen.

 

[SBC]

Yes, being afraid of man's reaction is sinning against God. If God says "do this" and you are so frightened of others that you say "no," you have disobeyed God.

God told Peter to treat Gentiles like they were clean. Peter said "no" to God's command when his Jewish friends showed up. Peter stood against God. Paul corrected him.

So, when you called on the Lord, to offer repentance, and belief in God. You asked for forgiveness of being afraid of a man's reaction?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[EnergonWaffles]

So, when you called on the Lord, to offer repentance, and belief in God. You asked for forgiveness of being afraid of a man's reaction?

God Bless,
SBC

Yes, I did. It was fear of what others thought of me that kept me from following God for a long time.

“The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is safe” (Proverbs 29:25)

Jesus tells us we are not to fear men. “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

 

[SBC]

We've been over this issue before in another thread so I see no need to readdress your objection since I already pointed out the fault in your argument. I see your belief as heterodox at best and heretical at worst. You of course are entitled to believe as you wish so no need to discuss further.

No problem. If you want to teach the Spirit of God dwells within you, while you continue to commit sin.

No explanation can resolve how God dwells in your sin.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Ken Rank]

Hi Kenny,

True Christians were sinners, but the power of Jesus blood to cleanse us is to the uttermost of all past sins. Then the power of the Holy Spirit makes us dead to present and future desires to sin.

Kenny? The only people who use that are people who knew me growing up.

Do you walk perfectly, without error, ALL the time? The answer is no... we still on occasion fall short because we haven't been perfected yet. We are still imperfect, saved if you want to use that word... children of the Most High.. but still in a fallen state and we will, unknowingly or unintentionally, fall short. That is sin... when we miss the mark, break a commandment, walk outside of God's will. The difference now is it isn't rebellion AND we know to confess and learn from the mistake, not making it again.

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The bold, in Greek, "ego emi," I am... present tense. Not I was... Paul was stating that, even though this is after the resurrection, he still saw himself as a sinner. Not purposefully, not as an act of rebellion... but because we have not yet been made incorruptible.

 

[JIMINZ]

I am not a sinner! I am a Saint... I am a new creation in Christ! I am the Head and not the tail! I am a child of God! I am a joint heir with Christ... I am free! and who the Son sets free is free indeed!!!!!!!

.
Hi Shaheem

I wholeheartedly agree 100% with what you have said.

Two questions.

1) What have you been set free from?
2) How are you Free Indeed?

My brother a converted man can sin and if you say you are without sin, you lie and truth is not in you. I would say this tho, a converted man could not live in or practice sin because the seed of God (Holy Spirit) is in him and He cannot live in or practice sin.... God Bless

.
I need some clarification.

You are now modifying your previous statements from above, how can you be all of those things you said you were, and now declare, a Converted man can Sin.

I believe you are referring to this verse.
1Jn. 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You continue on in modifying your statements with this verse.
1Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Both of these statements of John are true, and your solution to this dichotomy is, to reconcile them in the one belief, a Converted man can still Sin, do you have a Scripture verse which attests to that belief, which shows such Reconciliation, of these two verses?

1) What does it actually mean, to be Converted?
2) Converted from what, - - - into what?

God Bless

 

[1stcenturylady]

Kenny? The only people who use that are people who knew me growing up.

Do you walk perfectly, without error, ALL the time? The answer is no... we still on occasion fall short because we haven't been perfected yet. We are still imperfect, saved if you want to use that word... children of the Most High.. but still in a fallen state and we will, unknowingly or unintentionally, fall short. That is sin... when we miss the mark, break a commandment, walk outside of God's will. The difference now is it isn't rebellion AND we know to confess and learn from the mistake, not making it again.

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The bold, in Greek, "ego emi," I am... present tense. Not I was... Paul was stating that, even though this is after the resurrection, he still saw himself as a sinner. Not purposefully, not as an act of rebellion... but because we have not yet been made incorruptible.

Yes, I agree, and in other posts have explained what kind of sins a true Christian does not commit. They are willful sins. If you read Numbers 15, starting at verse 22, you see there was a sacrifice for unintentional sins, but the presumptuous willful sin, there was no sacrifice for. They stoned him. A Christian does not commit willful sins. If they do, they must repent in order to be cleansed of that type of sin. Turn away from it, and turn toward God who will give them the strength to not commit that sin again. If someone continued in willful sins, I would question whether they even had the Holy Spirit. They may just be a Christian in name only, but do not have the power that makes all the difference in their salvation. Because anyone in the flesh cannot please God, but a Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed, he has the Spirit of Christ in them. And the word says, without the Spirit they do not belong to Christ.