Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

[DennisTate]

Possibly. But the Spirit of truth wasn't given to man until Jesus became glorified. Those writers before Christ did the best they could (until spiritual truth spoke "through" Christ). By the time Jesus came to the Jews, he said they were following a "liar and murderer" John 8.

They had followed the ways of the flesh, over the spirit. My take.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

and

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Well said... and also.....

John 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

I could be wrong but I am wondering if near death experience accounts that include
the life review... .may be a major fulfillment of this promise....... to ... in the future......
speak plainly of the Father????

The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

 

[Hieronymus]

Good luck 'fighting' fallen angels and demons.

 

[DennisTate]

Good luck 'fighting' fallen angels and demons.

True... but the guest on the Sid Roth
program from a week or so ago did a good job of explaining
how we can play a more important role than we might imagine at first.

 

[Hieronymus]

I think prayer and sharing the Truth of things with those who don't know.
Some may be called to be exorcists, most of us aren't (i'm not).
I believe we should trust God on this one, not fight demons and fallen angels ourselves.
I'm sure many of us wish we could do more, but i don't think we can or should.

 

[Phantasman]

Well said... and also.....

John 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

I could be wrong but I am wondering if near death experience accounts that include
the life review... .may be a major fulfillment of this promise....... to ... in the future......
speak plainly of the Father????

The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

My belief is the the books of spiritual gnosis (knowledge) is being kept from man to make them see the controller of the flesh over the truth of the spirit.

Enoch was rejected by the same powers that killed Christ because "it" (ignorance and error) wanted men to follow it, instead of the spiritual truth that was taking men away. Remember, the Pharisee's hated Jesus because they were losing many who believed him. The early emergence of Catholicism (1-4 century) killed those following spiritual gnosis for the same reason. It was quicky becoming a threat to their ideology. So they called them "heretics" as Jesus was called the "devil" by the Pharisee's through the spiritual ignorance they could not see or accept.

Like Paul, gnosis is the "hidden knowledge" meant for the seeker and not for the world. Paul spoke it, referred to it many times. Since Paul learned only by the Spirit, it is of the Spirit.

The mind is our battle ground. We must be careful in what we see as "light" and what is "true light", as the god of flesh can appear as spiritual "light".

It;s not what the eyes see, or the ears hear. It's the image produced by the mind through the Spirit. As John says, it leads us into ALL truth, a promise from Christ. So, do we follow doctrines of men, or rely on the Spirit? It's where we place our faith that matters. Right?

 

[Hieronymus]

My belief is the the books of spiritual gnosis (knowledge) is being kept from man to make them see the controller of the flesh over the truth of the spirit.

I would reccommend you watch the lectures on gnosticism by Michael Heiser.
You can find them on Youtube.

 

[Phantasman]

I would reccommend you watch the lectures on gnosticism by Michael Heiser.
You can find them on Youtube.

Following what men say is not my place. If you follow men, you become the men. The Spirit from the Father is spoken the same to me as any man. Including the highest priests of any religion or thought. For 40 years I have sought spiritual truth with an open heart and mind. The promise has been fulfilled in my seeking and finding as Christ said it would. It is only his voice I seek, not mens voices.

 

[Hieronymus]

Following what men say is not my place.

Then remain floating in your own thoughts... (what a man thinks).

 

[DennisTate]

I think prayer and sharing the Truth of things with those who don't know.
Some may be called to be exorcists, most of us aren't (i'm not).
I believe we should trust God on this one, not fight demons and fallen angels ourselves.
I'm sure many of us wish we could do more, but i don't think we can or should.

My gifted Ecuadorian wife is an exorcist.... .and a prophetess.. .but she is human and flawed but she was somehow told by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus after I had sent her an e-mail that I was going to be her husband...... and she was told to fast and pray for me for 35 days.

For four weeks for three days / week she only drank fruit juices... and Yeshua / Jesus woke her up each morning and got her to pray for me.........

For the fifth week.... seven days in a row only fruit juices... .and I was 3000 miles north of her basking in astonishing peace of mind / Shalom.

I consider my own story to be more like this character from the Christian Bible than just about anybody else in there.......

Mar 5:15

And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

 

[Divide]

Ive upset many, many Christians talking about the Book of Enoch. 1 Enoch 1:9 is quoted in the book Jude, and it was in circulation in churches in the original Christian church for centuries... And Enoch is still part of the Ethiopian Bible today. Theres something about the Book of Enoch that seems to trigger doubtful, often hateful, responses from Christians.

Yep. Me too. Enoch...the most righteous man that ever lived (they'll agree to this!), so much so righteous, thatGod took him...but his book is crap...Wow.

And the first couple verses of Enoch says that it is not for that generation, but for a far distant generation during the time of trouble. (The time of Jacob's trouble, i.e., The tribulation)...uhh, Duh! That book is for US!

It's available free all over the internet, to download. I have it.

 

[DennisTate]

Following what men say is not my place. If you follow men, you become the men. The Spirit from the Father is spoken the same to me as any man. Including the highest priests of any religion or thought. For 40 years I have sought spiritual truth with an open heart and mind. The promise has been fulfilled in my seeking and finding as Christ said it would. It is only his voice I seek, not mens voices.

I am impressed truly........
but there is still a need to be able to discern when a mere man has gotten to the
place where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus can speak through them very accurately.

The Story of Angelo by Pastor Rick Joyner is so insightful......
that either Pastor Rick had a valid dream of heaven back in 1995... .or the man is an off the scale Christian literary genius right up there with C. S. Lewis?!

The story of homeless man Angelo by Rick Joyner!

 

[DennisTate]

Yep. Me too. Enoch...the most righteous man that ever lived (they'll agree to this!), so much so righteous, thatGod took him...but his book is crap...Wow.

And the first couple verses of Enoch says that it is not for that generation, but for a far distant generation during the time of trouble. (The time of Jacob's trouble, i.e., The tribulation)...uhh, Duh! That book is for US!

It's available free all over the internet, to download. I have it.

I am so truly glad to have met you and WilliamBo here!

Wow!!!!

I would be honored if you would be so kind as to critique:

Does Darth Vader = Azazel = Zeus???

 

[Hieronymus]

Yep. Me too. Enoch...the most righteous man that ever lived (they'll agree to this!), so much so righteous, thatGod took him...but his book is crap...Wow.

Book of Enoch is a 'pseudepigraph' written long after Enoch's life on earth.
It's not considered 'inspired' by most Christians and scholars, but there is a lot of insight about the unseen realm to be found in it.
And indeed, the NT writers quoted it, so it must have some value.
But there are also things in it that are highly ambiguous in light of the Bible (or so i'm told).

 

[DennisTate]

Book of Enoch is a 'pseudepigraph' written long after Enoch's life on earth.
It's not considered 'inspired' by most Christians and scholars, but there is a lot of insight about the unseen realm to be found in it.
And indeed, the NT writers quoted it, so it must have some value.
But there are also things in it that are highly ambiguous in light of the Bible (or so i'm told).

I personally have serious doubts about the off the scale scary statements that are made to both humans....... for example humans who victimize children....... and angels who engage in similar activities.

The way it is translated into English gives very little room for repentance to people and angels who have done certain types of sins but..........

...... we do know in our time period that some of the most totally messed up people can turn to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and become some of the most humble...... and most inspiring.... teachers on this earth.

Former Atheist Howard Storm is an obvious example of this happening.

Near-death .com/ :

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experiencewww.howardstorm.com was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister. Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and is Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level.

 

[Phantasman]

Then remain floating in your own thoughts... (what a man thinks).

My thoughts exactly:


Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."


Pastor Rick Joyner in a visionary dream of heaven given to him back in 1995 states that arrows with the name HOPE on them would be the ones that would work against the demons!




(Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest):



I go into a theory here that we may be living in the time period when the kingdom of Satan is divided..... and it falls:

Does Darth Vader = Azazel = Zeus???

You will not find Jesus or any Apostle looking for a fight with devils anywhere in scripture. I think picking a fight is a dangerous thing. Also, you should look into Joyner a bit closer and specifically his ties to masonry.

 

[Divide]

But there are also things in it that are highly ambiguous in light of the Bible (or so i'm told).

So I am told too. But no one can tell me what. Well, I have read the entire book and I have seen nothing that is ambiguous or contradicts canonized scripture. And I've prayed abut it quite a bit and have never gotten anything but positive responses about it from the Lord.

It was not written after Enochs death. Enoch was a Godly scribe...he wrote it!

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

The demons have no hope as proved out by the gospels when Jesus was casting them out they knew who he was and in Math 8 say this And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

Here we see even the demons know the end and that there is a specific destiny for them. We are told to put on the armor of God to stand against the devil. The devil is often in the church so if we fight against him we will be calling out the demonic doctrines coming out of many pulpits.

 

[Hieronymus]

My thoughts exactly:


Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

That doesn't mean construct your own 'truth'.
Moreover, anything you have learned in life, you have learned from someone else.
Since you're apparently a seeking Christian, i though i'd help you out with some needed perspective on the so called 'gnostic gospels' and the canon.
Contrary to your apparent preference, there are people out there who know their stuff and share it for your benefit.
These are not 'teachings of men' necessarily, there's a lot of honest scholarly work out there that helps us understand things.

 

[Phantasman]

I am impressed truly........
but there is still a need to be able to discern when a mere man has gotten to the
place where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus can speak through them very accurately.

The Story of Angelo by Pastor Rick Joyner is so insightful......
that either Pastor Rick had a valid dream of heaven back in 1995... .or the man is an off the scale Christian literary genius right up there with C. S. Lewis?!

The story of homeless man Angelo by Rick Joyner!

A nice story.

Any time truth overcomes ignorance (of the will of the Father) one see's the amazement.

The Gospel of Thomas says:
(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

One must overcome the troubled part to see the astonishment in truth. This is the clarity when the veil of ignorance is lifted from our eyes. Everytimes the Spirit reveals the truth of the Father, we grow in spiritual knowledge. We see those who are slaves (to ignorance) through being free as Jesus said we would be free.

The Gospel of Philip says:
As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do not want; and what we do want, we do not do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it. While it exists it is active. Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were nor are nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment.

The saviors commandments were of love, the same perfect love he gives us, he wants in return. Sin is merely ignorance of love. It is through his love we receive grace, and grace is understanding that he loves us though we sin, through his patience that we are imperfect.

To love as the Father loves is to be perfect as Christ taught us to be perfect as our Father is perfect. We are children, seeking to be as our Father. Sons of the living God. This is the mystery of being one.