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Targaryen

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Fine.



Who lied? People in fear of their lives did what they could to save their own lives, and those of others. Perhaps they were sincere in both.

There is a story from the second world war of a priest in a Japanese prison camp. the guards threw an image of Christ onto the floor and told the priest that if he did not stamp on it his fellow prisoners would all be beaten.

The priest looked at the image and it spoke to him. The image said, 'Stamp on me! Stamp on me!'

And again, how is this different then what a smaller proportion of muslims believe they should do when faces with their own persecution? You didn't answer that question I notice.
 
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Catherineanne

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The problem is pedophile is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Muhammad sex crimes.

Paedophilia only exists where there is a law of consent, and someone breaks it. The first law of consent in England was established in 1875, and was set at 12 years old, later the same year amended to 13.

Before 1875 there was no English law of consent, and therefore it is anachronistic to talk of paedophilia. Henry VII, for example, married Elizabeth of York when she was 12 years old. Do we decide that 21st century law applies to him as well?

What nonsense.

We are safe in saying that Mohammed was a lascivious old man, and that his morality leaves much to be desired in relation to modern thinking. But he was not a paedophile.
 
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Catherineanne

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And again, how is this different then what a smaller proportion of muslims believe they should do when faces with their own persecution? You didn't answer that question I notice.

The difference is our faith does not sanction lying. Not ever.

This does not mean that Christians are incapable of lying; we aren't. Just that whenever we do lie it is a sin.

Christians can and do sin. That sinning is never called anything other than sin.

I make no comment about Islam because I don't know enough about it, and it is not my concern. I suspect that this is a matter of interpretation and they are saying much the same as we are; sometimes Moslems fall short of the ideal expected of them. When they do there has to be a path back to reconciliation for them. If any part of Islam condones lying (and that may or may not be the case) then I suspect it is down to a very clumsy use of language.

All lies are from Satan, the Father of all lies.
 
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Targaryen

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Do we sanction lying, of course not. That I can agree on and no I'm not condoning this use of it. However, when the person that raised this point seems to overlook is, this is not a widely held principle in Islam. It's Shia practice more so then common place among all muslims.
 
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Catherineanne

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Over fifteen years ago I worked with Christians and Muslims on one job site. Two young Muslim women told me about Islam. I remember they told me about an Islamic friend who framed a school mate in high school by writing the word "terrorist" on her locker blaming it on a non-Muslim getting him in trouble. They are allowed to lie for the cause of Islam. It is a deceitful religion.

One woman I worked with was from Pakistan, the other was from Afghanistan. I argued against jihad with them. The one from Afghanistan told me her version of jihad would be to use peaceful means to convert people. She could not marry a non-Muslim, but might convert one to Islam and marry him. I think I was having a positive influence on them as they were becoming less interested in Islam. Then one had a relative hit and killed by a drunk driver. Islam does not allow alcohol, so she told me she was returning to Islam and to mosque services. She seemed superstitious.

I befriended a single mother from India. I am not sure what religion she was. She returned to tell me she had converted to Christianity. It made me glad.

I knew a Christian once. Dreadful man.

I knew another. Lovely man.

And I knew a single parent Christian. She was nice.
 
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Catherineanne

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Do we sanction lying, of course not. That I can agree on and no I'm not condoning this use of it. However, when the person that raised this point seems to overlook is, this is not a widely held principle in Islam. It's Shia practice more so then common place among all muslims.

Shi'a or not, I know lots of Christians who don't respect the truth.
 
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DWA2DAY

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Muhammad the Liar.

According to the Islamic traditions, Muhammad went to the Mosque in Jerusalem. Surah 17:1

And from Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven…

The problem with all of this is that the first Jerusalem Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian armies in 587 BC. Furthermore, General Titus and his Roman soldiers levelled the Second Temple in AD. 70, more than five centuries before this alleged night journey to Jerusalem took place. The Temple that eventually became Masjid al-Aqsa did not come into existence until AD. 691 when Amir Abd-ul-Malik built it.
 
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Hieronymus

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Do we sanction lying, of course not. That I can agree on and no I'm not condoning this use of it. However, when the person that raised this point seems to overlook is, this is not a widely held principle in Islam.
Oh but it is.
 
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Hieronymus

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Considering that I look to far more credible, non-religious biased sources. Not even close.
"non religious biased" hardly exists.
Your view to me sounds like the modern 'one world' thinking.
We don't know eachother's sources though.
 
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Targaryen

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Well there is plenty of reference materials if you want to look for it ,any general reference stuff that doesn't have an agenda to push in terms of religious bent. But that's ok, you can use your faulty reasoning all you want. Doesn't actually fit to researched fact but that's ok.
 
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Paidiske

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