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Featured Islam People vs. Muhammad

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by DWA2DAY, Sep 18, 2017.

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  1. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    The quran, I don't find so much evil as ridiculous, but I'm not muslim so I would find some elements that are silly. But I think the problem is too many Muslims rely on the hadiths as well as the Quran, which isn't like a Christian going back to the Early Church Fathers, but that these are so-called reported sayings of Muhammed but if that was the case, why weren't they included in the Quran so there would be no confusion of what was actually relevant. And it's the hadiths,IMO that are the things most often misused by the extremists.

    However, let's be clear. Christianity's own past is not exactly squeaky clean either. Use facts, sure, but try to avoid the polemics and the false equivalencies.
     
  2. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    You don't like other people disrespecting your Prophet and your Scriptures, and rightly so. So in your turn you decide to counter this by doing the exact same thing to Christian Scriptures? By posting those links you call God a liar, you call Jesus a liar, you call Paul a liar. What is that all about?

    Doesn't the Koran tell you to respect our Scriptures? Doesn't the Koran say that Jesus was without sin?

    Does the Koran say that Mohammed was without sin? No. It doesn't.

    Why are you not respecting what the Koran tells you to respect? Why are you trying to prove the Koran wrong?

    God is truth; that much I know. Jesus himself is the Way, the Truth and the Life. There is no lying; no deceit, in God.

    Call me a liar if you like, but if I were you I would be careful about calling God a liar, or disrespecting any of his Scriptures.
     
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  3. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    When Christians were persecuted, and even today, a vast number refuse to deny their Lord and end up as holy martyrs.

    Lying is never regarded as a virtue in our faith.
     
  4. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    My friend, there is no need for either you nor I to defend our faith; our faith and our God defend us, not the other way round.

    I can assure you I would not touch the OP's book with a bargepole; few people that I know would. Perhaps none of them.

    Peace be with you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  5. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    The Koran does not say the Bible is false. I would be very careful about disrespecting what the Koran tells you to respect.

    I would also be very careful about using Christian Scripture as you are attempting to; as a weapon against our faith. I don't think God will take kindly to that.
     
  6. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    Remember the prohibition of not eating meat offered to idols? Well during Decius' reign as Emperor, things weren't as black and white:

    In 250 the emperor Decius issued an edict, the text of which has been lost, requiring everyone in the Empire (except Jews, who were exempted) to perform a sacrifice to the gods in the presence of a Roman magistrate and obtain a signed and witnessed certificate, called a libellus, to this effect.[42] The decree was part of Decius' drive to restore traditional Roman values and there is no evidence that Christians were specifically being targeted.[43] A number of these certificates still exist and one discovered in Egypt (text of papyrus in illustration) reads:[2]:145-151

    To those in charge of the sacrifices of the village Theadelphia, from Aurelia Bellias, daughter of Peteres, and her daughter Kapinis. We have always been constant in sacrificing to the gods, and now too, in your presence, in accordance with the regulations, I have poured libations and sacrificed and tasted the offerings, and I ask you to certify this for us below. May you continue to prosper. (Second person's handwriting) We, Aurelius Serenus and Aurelius Hermas, saw you sacrificing. (Third person's handwriting) I, Hermas, certify. The first year of the Emperor Caesar Gaius Messias Quintus Traianus Decius Pius Felix Augustus, Pauni 27.

    When the provincial governor Pliny had written to the emperor Trajan in 112, he said he required suspected Christians to curse Christ, but there is no mention of Christ or Christians in the certificates from Decius' reign.[44] Nevertheless, this was the first time that Christians throughout the Empire had been forced by imperial edict to choose between their religion and their lives[2] and a number of prominent Christians, including Pope Fabian, Babylas of Antioch, and Alexander of Jerusalem died as a result of their refusal to perform the sacrifices.[42] The number of Christians who were executed as a result of their refusal to obtain a certificate is not known, nor how much of an effort was made by the authorities to check who had received a certificate and who had not, but it is known that large numbers of Christians apostatized and performed the ceremonies while others, including Cyprian, bishop of Carthage, went into hiding.[2] Although the period of enforcement of the edict was only about eighteen months, it was severely traumatic to many Christian communities which had until then lived undisturbed, and left bitter memories of monstrous tyranny. The Decian persecution had lasting repercussions for the church. How should those who had obtained a certificate or actually sacrificed be treated? It seems that in most churches those who had lapsed were accepted back into the fold, but some groups refused them admission to the church. This raised important issues about the nature of the church, forgiveness, and the high value of martyrdom. A century and a half later, St. Augustine would battle with an influential group called the Donatists, who broke away from the Catholic Church because the latter embraced the lapsed.

    Can you say that Christians then didn't lie in order to saved themselves from being killed? Again, it's hypocritical to have this in our past and yet condemn another group for a similar action.
     
  7. fat wee robin

    fat wee robin Newbie

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    I am saying prayers for you ,as you need them .
     
  8. fat wee robin

    fat wee robin Newbie

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    Yes , unfortunately there are too many calling themselves Christians, who are not .
     
  9. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Clearly you have failed to read the Tafsir quoted in post 12. so do we now understand your highly esteemed Islamic scholars are wrong and you are right?

    Yea and you proof is what. Listing Islamic propaganda sites you your self have not read. Make and stand and talk for your self as clearly you do not agaree with Islamic schoolars.

    Cleanly you have not read Jeremiah 8 and are relying on the lying lips of Iman because he told you so. Yet when we look at the Quran 29:46 clearly you Muslims are instructed to listen to us followers of Christ. Then in 10:94-95 Muhammad was himself in doubt about Islam and his fabricated faith and refereed to the biblical text for guidance.

    We still waiting for your proof. what are your reference, or do you have none.
     
  10. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Ok let us deal with the revelations of Muhammad as a prophet of the One True God. Keep in mind Islam belief is the Qur'an is it is the uncorrupted revelation of Allah. It had been from any other than Allah you would find many contradictions in it. Surah 4:82.

    So by the Qur'an standards Islam is a false religion if there are errors in the Qur'an. Lets take a look see.

    96:1-5 :- Muhammad is told to read the revelation. Did Allah not know he was illiterate? 7:157

    25:5 :- Oh Muhammad could read and write.

    19:27-28 / 66:12 :- Marry the mother of Jesus is Arron sister. So is Marry Arron’s sister or Jesus mother – Allah does not know!

    15:29 :- Adam was worship by the Angles – is this not polytheism punishable by death?

    21:91 :- Allah is the father of Jesus – I though Allah could not have children or a wife 6:101.

    11:42-43 :- Noah son drowns in the Flood. 21:76, 37:77 says they were saved from the flood.

    41:9-12 / 7:45 & 32:4 :- Earth created in eight or six days? Allah is not too sure.

    19:30-33 : -The Death and resurrection of Jesus Christ confirmed by the Allah.

    4:66-67 :- Follow Muhammad or be Killed.

    4:171 / 3:45 :- Jesus is the Word of Allah.

    3:55 & Bukhari 55:657 : -Jesus will return to judge the word.

    To give you some perspective on the People verses Muhammad the above is possibly a representation of 30-40 pages of the 308 page book. Reference after reference after reference.

    I was at first dubius about some of the wikiislam links and reference offered. Oh man go see for your self, forget the book just look at the web page.

    For Example Eating 7 dates can cure poison

    Narrated Sad: Allah's Apostle said, "He who eats seven 'Ajwa dates every morning, will not be affected by poison or magic on the day he eats them."

    Sahih Bukhari 7:65:356, See also: Sahih Bukhari 7:65:663
    follow the link and opps were do end up Islamic Web page QuranX.com oh who they ----


    "This website was created in order to collate various Islamic sources into a single cross-referenced location. This project could not have succeeded without standing on the shoulders of giants. Thanks go to the following people.

    Quran.com
    For making their word-by-word Arabic analysis open-source so that it may be used by others without charge.
    Tanzil project
    For providing Arabic text of the Quran and various English translations and for making those resources freely available.
    AlTafsir.com
    For giving kind permission to reproduce their tafsirs."

    Yea so the Islamic web sites are used in the People vs. Muhammad to reference what I guess to be 99% of the Islamic material usedin the book. Pritty soild in my veiw.

    check it out for yourself.

    Scientific Errors in the Hadith - WikiIslam
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  11. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    INDEED.
     
  12. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    please offer your proof.
     
  13. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You might also like "Why I am not a Muslim," by Ibn Warraq. It shows some of the weaknesses of Islam. I can not see how anyone who is wise could praise the Quran and trash the Bible. There are errors in the Quran.
     
  14. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Hi dqhall.
    I have not heard of it, and sounds good. Thanks for the heads up as sounds like it belongs on my book rack. Only issue Islamic literature seems to be taking over my book rack -

    Yes, but the funny thing 5 years ago when I first started looking into the Islamic faith I was mystified about it, it never rang to to my soul but always seemed romantically blemished. Once the the gene cloud settled and the nuts and bolts were visible, I must agree no one honestly seeking the truth can accept Islam as a faith.

    May I ask are you involved in Muslim evangelism?
     
  15. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Over fifteen years ago I worked with Christians and Muslims on one job site. Two young Muslim women told me about Islam. I remember they told me about an Islamic friend who framed a school mate in high school by writing the word "terrorist" on her locker blaming it on a non-Muslim getting him in trouble. They are allowed to lie for the cause of Islam. It is a deceitful religion.

    One woman I worked with was from Pakistan, the other was from Afghanistan. I argued against jihad with them. The one from Afghanistan told me her version of jihad would be to use peaceful means to convert people. She could not marry a non-Muslim, but might convert one to Islam and marry him. I think I was having a positive influence on them as they were becoming less interested in Islam. Then one had a relative hit and killed by a drunk driver. Islam does not allow alcohol, so she told me she was returning to Islam and to mosque services. She seemed superstitious.

    I befriended a single mother from India. I am not sure what religion she was. She returned to tell me she had converted to Christianity. It made me glad.

    Mohamed was described as having sexual relations with a 9 year old girl. That would make him a pedophile. I would not call a pedophile a prophet.

    Muhamamd's Sex Life
     
  16. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Yes you are correct we as Christians are all sinner and have the ability to hideous thing. The question that must be asked is are we as followers of Christ following the example of man or the Word of God.

    Islam on the other hand has made Taqiyya if I may say the sixth pillar of there faith, following the example of Muhammad as I have pointed out to you in a previous post using the quran and Tafsir as proof.
     
  17. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Yes you are correct. Confront a Muslim about this and they will deny it. As is the case of discussion I am having with two Imans at our local mosque.

    Yea we call it the elelphant mission. So often we forget the Holy Spirit work in it. I read in one of my reasources an western person needs to hear the gospel 3- 7 times before he would make a decision for Christ. A Muslim needs to hear the gospel 50 -70 time before they will make a decision for Christ.

    All praise be to God our Father, and that you for been faithful in presenting your part.

    Yes the People vs Muhammad goes into some detail about this. The problem is pedophile is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Muhammad sex crimes.
     
  18. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    No, sorry, any child that even studies Islam in a Social Studies class in grade school, know there is only 5 pillars of Islam, not six. Unless of course you just want to lie? Hilarious and incorrect.
     
  19. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Clearly you can not read with understanding. I said the following :-

    highlighted in read for you.
    Meaning I have termed it the sixth pillar of there faith because it is so entrenched in the belief.

    No to use you words any child reading this would have understanding. Yet in your ignorance you choose to sling mud instead of dealing with the false gospel you are tying to promote here and again I quote you ;-
     
  20. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    Fine.

    Who lied? People in fear of their lives did what they could to save their own lives, and those of others. Perhaps they were sincere in both.

    There is a story from the second world war of a priest in a Japanese prison camp. the guards threw an image of Christ onto the floor and told the priest that if he did not stamp on it his fellow prisoners would all be beaten.

    The priest looked at the image and it spoke to him. The image said, 'Stamp on me! Stamp on me!'
     
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