Is it better to never have been born then to live with the possibility of going to hell?

[I'm_Sorry]

How is it just to create someone knowing in advance that that person will end up in endless torment one day?

When I read this one post of yours I was reminded of:

The parable of the wheat and tears.

What I find interesting is how the wheat is to not be uprooted by gathering the tears.

And that the tears are the sons of the wicked one, the devil sows them.

They grow together.

Matthew 13

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

-------

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[Strong in Him]

But God is Perfect and His Word is Pefect...
Have Faith in his Word.. Believe Him..

He is love too, 1 John 4:8.
It is not loving to create someone who is destined to go to hell - no choice in the matter.

God loves us.. But to have a relationship with Him We must love Him back..

Why do we love God? Because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
If someone has never known God's amazing, eternal love, that cannot be earned, and which he had for them when they were still godless sinners - how can they love him?
If they believe him to be only someone who is cruel, discriminate and sends people to hell - how can they love him?

 

[Noxot]

who am I, oh my love, to say your children are nothing but tares? is it not rather, my own evil tares? and they cause me much affliction but you are faithful and you shall rid me of all evils for you love me far more than I can love you or others.

 

[SkyWriting]

well then God agrees that I'm worthless. I never ask for forgiveness because I'm angry at myself all the time.

Not exactly reassuring that God hates us more than we do.

God loves us so much He gave His Son to die for your imperfections.
He gave up his Son because you are that important to Him.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God

 

[SkyWriting]

How is it just to create someone knowing in advance that that person will end up in endless torment one day?

You are tormented now and yet God allows you to be living. Seems fair to me.
I'm not blaming God for your current torment.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, if hell is an eternal state (as opposed to a temporary state, as some believe) then it would be better if you were never born. In fact Christians who believe in a state of eternal damnation probably shouldnt have children. Theres just too too much of a risk that one or more of your children could end up in hell.

Scripture has a better message than that one:
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

6Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[SkyWriting]

This raises another question: Since God knows the end from the beginning, He would also know the ultimate fate of every creature He creates. Yet, He will create someone anyway, already knowing they're doomed in the end (again, assuming doom is in anyone's future -- a highly debatable prospect, that).

Evidently He sees the value in people having a choice.

 

[SkyWriting]

All that gets into the illusive nature of this world, which is another thread
altogether. -ᴗ•

In the meantime, eternal conscious torment is, in contrast to all the above, the most pressing issue, and the one the least qualified to have so many diverse opinions attached to it (if it's real, of course).

How to live this life is more important.

 

[DarkSoul999]

God loves us so much He gave His Son to die for your imperfections.
He gave up his Son because you are that important to Him.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God

Did he? About 107 billion walked the earth as of today and climbing.

 

[JoeP222w]

I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

We do not know the identity of the elect. So to say that you know the majority of people that have ever lived are going to Hell is not an accurate statement. Revelation says that those who are in Heaven cannot be numbered.

Revelation 7:9-10 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, (10) and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

Since all of the people who are alive and who have lived, have no idea what it would be like to never have existed, this is a non-starter.

We've all heard the saying "life isn't fair." God even states in the book of Exodus "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and show compassion to whom I show compassion." Now of course he's an all perfect God but even when I try to think "it all balances out" it appears God shows favoritism.

Does God not have the sovereign right to do with His creation as He sees fit?
Does man have the right to demand "fairness" from God?

I've been reading the books of Samuel and 2 Samuel the last few days and King David is a genocidal maniac who literally raids & plunders cities of people killing all the men, women, and children so they don't squeal on him.

I don't of any Christian that would claim that David was perfect and without sin.

I say this to say when we're born we can't decide or know who we're going to be born as, we might be born in 2017 with video games and working air conditioning. Or we could be born as one of the Geshurites that David slaughtered with no remorse thousands of years ago. We could be born mentally retarded or a super genius, who knows.

You are taking on the role of the objector in Romans 9.

Romans 9:13-23 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?

There is no debate. You either trust in what God has written or you do not. And as I mentioned previously, we do not know the identity of the elect.

So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?

Salvation is not a "possibility". Jesus did not come to "enable" people to be saved. His work on the cross was sufficient and complete.

 

[Adstar]

He is love too, 1 John 4:8.
It is not loving to create someone who is destined to go to hell - no choice in the matter.

God did not create anyone without a choice.. His foreknowing their choice isn't God forcing their choice upon them.. I do not believe in calvinism... We are not Zombie automations without free will..

Why do we love God? Because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
If someone has never known God's amazing, eternal love, that cannot be earned, and which he had for them when they were still godless sinners - how can they love him?
If they believe him to be only someone who is cruel, discriminate and sends people to hell - how can they love him?

By Reading His Message in the Bible and by asking God to reveal Himself to them... Those who are genuine in the seeking will not be kept in the dark but will be drawn to His Light..

 

[Rajni]

You are tormented now and yet God allows you to be living. Seems fair to me.
I'm not blaming God for your current torment.

There's no need to blame God for anything; He hasn't done any wrong. •‿•

In other news, there's a world of difference between temporary torment from which one can grow and by which one can be transformed for the better, and unending torment for no other purpose than revenge.

Evidently He sees the value in people having a choice.

Evidently not; they didn't choose an existence in which endless hell would be a guarantee.

How to live this life is more important.

While that sentiment would be the perfect caption to a photo depicting beautiful scenery (in fact, I took the liberty of combining the two, below), it's a non-answer in light of the current topic. I do agree that the joy is in the journey, as they say, but if that journey carries with it the potential of endless conscious torment at the end, it's basically dead-on-arrival and more of a death-sentence than a journey.

 

[Strong in Him]

God did not create anyone without a choice..

I know; that's my point.
He is love, and in love, he created all of us in his image. He did not, I believe, create someone just to send them to hell, knowing that they had no choice, or say, in the matter.

I do not believe in calvinism...

Me neither.
The OP asked if it would be better not to be born at all than to be born and destined for hell. I don't believe anyone is created destined for hell. If a person wants to know God and to be with him forever - have eternal life - they have an opportunity to do something about it. If they'd never been born, they wouldn't have.

By Reading His Message in the Bible and by asking God to reveal Himself to them... Those who are genuine in the seeking will not be kept in the dark but will be drawn to His Light..

And why would they want to read the word of a god like that? If they believe that God can send someone to hell just on a whim; that he allowed them to be born and then decided to pack them off to hell just for fun, why would anyone want to know someone like that?

As I said, Scripture says, "we love because he first loved us." (My emphasis.)
Humans respond to love; if we have never known human love, we won't respond and it may be harder to give. If someone has never known that God IS love, and has poured his love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, Romans 5:8, they won't be able to respond and to love him.

 

[white gardenia]

You are tormented now and yet God allows you to be living. Seems fair to me.
I'm not blaming God for your current torment.

yeah thats one good point...humans are definitely going to experience aspects of hell. There is no question that this world is a nightmare….in fact the amount of suffering in this world is incalculable. So we need to get used to the idea of pain.
but I'm not sure its possible to reconcile an ETERNAL hell with Christian theology. Because man's ultimate state seems to be reconciliation with God (ie "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance"..."and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" etc etc
Again, I think that Frank Tipler's view of hell may be the correct one...

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

a better idea would be to repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ. after that, proceed to share the gospel with the lost and pray that they would be granted repentance and faith.

hell is a problem, the gospel is the solution.

 

[Rajni]

hell is a problem, the gospel is the solution.

If only it were that simple.

There is, after all, the whole issue of Christianity not being the only religion threatening a hell for those who don’t comply. We might avoid Christianity’s hell, only to later discover it was, for instance, Islam’s hell that was the real problem.

 

[Strong in Him]

If only it were that simple.

There is, after all, the whole issue of Christianity not being the only religion threatening a hell for those who don’t comply.

How can followers of other faiths respond to God's love, shown in Christ, if they have never heard of him, or the Gospel or been given the opportunity to respond?

We might avoid Christianity’s hell, only to later discover it was, for instance, Islam’s hell that was the real problem.

Hell is knowing who God is, because you've seen him face to face, knowing that the Gospel you heard an rejected is true after all, knowing that Jesus could have forgiven your sins, but you chose to reject him.
Without Jesus a sinner cannot be reconciled to the Father; Jesus is the one who saves, John 14:6, Acts 4:12. If someone doesn't come to Jesus, they will not receive eternal life - and so suffer the wages of sin, which is death, Romans 6:23. Jesus said that whoever turned to him would have eternal life.

How much people of other religions - or children, or people with learning disabilities - understand, and whether they are able to turn to God, is not for us to judge.
But the solution to being without God for eternity, is to turn to him, trust in him and receive his forgiveness and eternal life.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Ys indeed it would be better not to be born then to live and be destined to the Eternal lake of Fire..

Forgive me, but let's all feel sorry for those that think this way. As my sister Janet says, "WAAH."

 

[SkyWriting]

Did he? About 107 billion walked the earth as of today and climbing.

Yes. For each one. And he listed to each prayer first
then He formed the world and planned out each moment.

 

[SkyWriting]

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

God knows it is better. You have incomplete information.