September 23 'sign in the heavens' debunked.

[Sanoy]

This is an inference. There are no ancient sources that say such a thing.

An inference is within the realm of logical reasoning. Given the passage, our ability to see what the Magi saw, and the fact that the Magi responded to a sign which John wrote about we can, with abductive reasoning, conclude the author was using a 9 sign for Leo rather than using another sign which would mathematically fail to result in an astrological crown of 12 stars.

 

[JacksBratt]

It matters little. What will it change in your life? Nothing in mine. We are not going to know the date of the rapture. Many can't even agree if it is pre, mid or post tribulation.

My life will go on. If we are raptured it will be a glorious day. If not, we are just seeing signs that are accomplishing their purpose by drawing attention to the times of this earth. People who could care less or don't believe, will not be influenced anyway.....

 

[Sea Horse]

You guys forgot about something which is not repeating .

 

[CGL1023]

By Answers in Genesis no less.

Even Answers in Genesis debunks this 'sign.' What Will Happen on September 23, 2017?

After the "Blood Moon"of about two years ago, I am mentally prepared for another non-event on Sept. 23.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

After the "Blood Moon"of about two years ago, I am mentally prepared for another non-event on Sept. 23.

Actually, something very significant did happen, not on the same day but only five days later.

Vatican responds to CDF official’s 'coming out'

Vatican City, Oct 3, 2015 / 06:15 am (EWTN News/CNA)

The director of the Holy See press office has issued a statement in response to Vatican official Msgr. Krzysztof Charamsa's declaration in a recent interview that he is homosexual and has a boyfriend. Msgr. Charamsa, 43, granted a video interview to Italian agency Corriere della Sera published on Oct. 3 in which he, speaking in Polish, announced that he is "a homosexual priest, with a partner."Following the revelation, Fr Federico Lombardi, S.J. issued the following Oct. 3 statement:“Regarding the statements and interviews released by Msgr. Kryzstof Charamsa, it must be considered -- notwithstanding the respect warranted to the events and personal situations and reflections on the issue -- the choice to make such a pointed statement on the vigil of the Synod’s opening seems very serious and irresponsible, since it seeks to impose on the Synodal assembly undue media pressure.”Certainly, he said, "Msgr. Charamsa will not be able to continue performing his previous duties at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Universities, whereas other aspects of his situation are under the competence of his diocesan ordinary.” More

Revelation 6:

12 And I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair: and the whole moon became as blood:

13 And the stars from heaven fell upon the earth, as the fig tree casteth its green figs when it is shaken by a great wind:

14 And the heaven departed as a book folded up: and every mountain, and the islands were moved out of their places.

Revelation 9:

1 And the fifth angel sounded the trumpet, and I saw a star fall from heaven upon the earth, and there was given to him the key of the bottomless pit.

Excerpts from St. Bede's commentary (circ. A.D. 710—716):

"sun. This is, as if the power of Christ were hidden, or His doctrine temporarily obscured, or covered by a veil, when the servants of Antichrist are brought to attack the servants of Christ."

"heaven. As a scroll rolled up contains indeed mysteries within, while there is no appearance of them without, so will it be with the Church. At that time, known only to her own, she will prudently avoid persecution in retirement, that by such concealment she may remain unperceived by those without."

"mountain. He speaks of the members of the Church, as differing according to the character of their offices or powers, and foretells, that no one will be without his share in this whirlwind. But the movement caused by it will be dissimilar, for in the good it will be one of precaution by flight, but in the bad, of giving way by compliance."

"star. He declares with what fuel the flame of heretics, of which he had spoken briefly, was kindled. The old enemy forsooth, whom the Lord saw 'like lightning fall from heaven,' opened the heart of his own by blasphemous doctrine, and taught them to speak impiety against the Most High."

NASA Blood Moon Picture (Sep 27/28, 2015)

 

[Revealing Times]

By Answers in Genesis no less.

Even Answers in Genesis debunks this 'sign.' What Will Happen on September 23, 2017?

I don't even get why a Christian would look to Astrology to start with, it boggles my mind.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I don't even get why a Christian would look to Astrology to start with, it boggles my mind.

Indeed.

 

[SeventyOne]

Do a Google image search on the constellation Leo, then count the stars that form the different images of Leo. Then come back and tell me how many stars form the image.

leo constellation - Google Search

Nine, is the only number you need to be concerned with. The number associated with it in the day it was written. Trying to redefine a term will only end up confusing yourself.

And still the same as today, such as here: Leo Constellation: Facts About the Lion

Trying to add stars to avoid the point doesn't even make logical sense. It's merely obfuscation on your part, and the only one it's hurting is you.

 

[SeventyOne]

Indeed.

If it were astrology, that would be a valid point.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Nine, is the only number you need to be concerned with. The number associated with it in the day it was written. Trying to redefine a term will only end up confusing yourself.

And still the same as today, such as here: Leo Constellation: Facts About the Lion

Trying to add stars to avoid the point doesn't even make logical sense. It's merely obfuscation on your part, and the only one it's hurting is you.

'In the day it was written?' What day was that anyway?

 

[mark kennedy]

I wonder what we will think September 23 if something happens with Israel. I'm not expecting it, certainly can't predict anything, but wouldn't it be interested if something did. Just a few weeks away, see you then...

 

[Revealing Times]

Actually, something very significant did happen, not on the same day but only five days later.

The Blood Moons are not of Astrology, and not based off of fake events, because I don't think its UNIQUE nor is it a Prophecy, we know Prophecy has to be about future events not past events. It is kind of documented that these Blood moons fall upon important event dates, which might or might not be incidental, but they are not of Astrology.

As per the 2015 "Shaking" The US Election was a very "STRANGE EVENT" and no doubt Israel got a boost in Trump over Obama the Marxist.

If it were astrology, that would be a valid point.

You are SPEAKING VIRGO, and you don't understand its Astrology !!

 

[SeventyOne]

You are SPEAKING VIRGO, and you don't understand its Astrology !!

I know astrology is owned by the devil, but the constellations are not. Quit trying to give the devil more property than he actually owns.

 

[SeventyOne]

'In the day it was written?' What day was that anyway?

The second Saturday after the fifth Monday in the month of Hannah Montana. Seriously?

 

[Revealing Times]

I know astrology is owned by the devil, but the constellations are not. Quit trying to give the devil more property than he actually owns.

Its Astrology. You seem to be looking to the stars.

 

[Goatee]

God gave us the Stars etc as signs i believe. Just like the 'Star of Bethlehem'

 

[Sanoy]

I don't even get why a Christian would look to Astrology to start with, it boggles my mind.

The entire universe is oriented along the plane of the ecliptic (zodiacal band). In science it's called the axis of evil. So all those stars out there are specifically aligned according to our planet. This is scientific fact, and God tells us this in Genesis 1:14. He speaks of the mazzaroth in Job 38:31-33, and Revelation 12 uses the constellation of Virgo to describe Jesus's birth which can and has been confirmed using computers. We were each taught in church to avoid horoscopes and all astrology, however few are ever told of the Mazzoroth in church.

The astrology that is condemned is a form of idol worship, not the mazzaroth. People saw the stars and planets as gods and worshiped them in astrology. The Mazzaroth does not, it sees the heavens as another messenger of God....Psalm 19.

"The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

In any case how can anyone that condemns this rectify the fact that the magi knew a king would be born by looking at the heavens?

 

[SeventyOne]

Its Astrology. You seem to be looking to the stars.

So, when Jesus tells us there will be signs in the stars in Luke 21, you are saying He was promoting astrology?

 

[JacksBratt]

Indeed.

Maybe because:

Genesis 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

[SeventyOne]

I think the 9/23/17 “sign” has been debunked because it is neither rare nor very symbolic from an astronomical perspective when you actually look at the data: http://thechristmasstar.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/TheSignofRevelation12.pdf

For example,

(1) the sign is not even visible to the naked eye.

(2) To determine how rare the 23 September 2017 configuration actually might be, look at the 21 years of the sign’s appearance between 2000 and 2020. Since the sign frequently appears during the Jewish holy day of Rosh Hashana, those dates are included (in the link above), along with the date of the event (Virgo clothed with the sun, with the moon at her feet), the location of the sun in Virgo, the type of moon at Virgo’s feet, and the number of planets in both Virgo and Leo when the sign appears. Interestingly, during the 21 year period, the sign appeared seven times on Rosh Hashana (year in bold print), seven times on the day after Rosh Hashana and seven times a full month after Rosh Hashana.

(3) Because Mercury is so close to the sun, it will always be present when the sun is located in Virgo. Being the next closest planet to the sun, Venus will normally appear in Leo, Virgo or Libra when the sign appears (10 times in Virgo or Leo in the 21 years). Mars passes through Virgo about once every 2 years and appears four times in Virgo during the period; Jupiter passes through Virgo and makes one to two appearances in the constellation every 12 years. Saturn will spend 4 or 5 years in Virgo about every 27 years. Thus, the appearance of multiple planets in the two constellations when the sign appears is common, not unusual. Proponents for the sign claim that the appearance of four planets in the two constellations in 2017 is extremely rare. But, as can be seen in the table, four planets appeared in the two constellations in 2008, 2015 and 2017, and in 2008 the sign appeared during Rosh Hashana. The number of planets in the two constellations in conjunction with the sign’s appearance for the 21 year period is as follows: 1 planet = 2 times; 2 planets = 8 times; 3 planets = 8 times; 4 planets = 3 times. Four planets appearing in the two constellations is not an “extremely” rare occurrence.

1. The description of the sign itself says it's clothed in the sun. If it wasn't, it couldn't be the sign, and all the mockers would be out saying, "But it's not clothed in the sun. Everyone can see it."

2 and 3. If you wish to provide dates of signs identical to the one on 9/23 and which match the Rev 12 description, please do so. Otherwise this is just an argument that elements of the sign appear frequently, which is the same thing as saying they aren't the sign in its fullness either.