September 23 'sign in the heavens' debunked.

[Ronald]

Sounds like you are truly entering the "golden years".

However, I believe that this "other thing" that is coming, will be so incredibly wonderful that it will make what you have planned feel like being stuck in a traffic jam.

I'm looking forward to a new body, the millennial kingdom.,heaven, meeting Jesus face to face, the consummation of eternal life - believe me _ more than anything. I was just making a point that if the Lord tarries, if I am wrong, I will not be disappointed because I live life in the full and would be fine growing old and then dying. Btw, I just moved from Los Angéles, talk about being stuck in traffic. ... 15 million people, smog, liberalism. ... I finally escaped to wide open spaces, not paradise, but Ill take it until He comes.

 

[Ronald]

Imagine a groom that goes off to build a place for the bride but secretly the bride hopes the groom is delayed. I don't know if the rapture is coming in a month but the consideration has caused me to reflect on my heart for the better. Please prepare your heart as well to be eager for his arrival in any case and any moment.

Not hoping He won't come, anticpating He will ... I wrote a book addressing it and studied eschatolgy for many years. Wow, just said if I was wrong, I'm good with the "egg on my face". He's coming soon.

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm looking forward to a new body, the millennial kingdom.,heaven, meeting Jesus face to face, the consummation of eternal life - believe me _ more than anything. I was just making a point that if the Lord tarries, if I am wrong, I will not be disappointed because I live life in the full and would be fine growing old and then dying. Btw, I just moved from Los Angéles, talk about being stuck in traffic. ... 15 million people, smog, liberalism. ... I finally escaped to wide open spaces, not paradise, but Ill take it until He comes.

Many times I have felt as you do. Things are going well and a bright stretch of road infront of you for the next few years of even a decade..... You think Ahhh this is life. And, why shouldn't we.

Other times I hit a ditch, the drudgery, unforeseeable events or just plain corruption of this world have me praying for Christ to come and come now.

Even in these times, however, we are given the strength to carry one because our Lord loves us.

So, enjoy the fruits of your years and I hope you have many of them to live out.

Either way... when the Lord comes, in His time, we will have no regrets.

God Bless.

 

[JacksBratt]

There will be less "signs" ...
What will be the next rapturist hype ?The invisible Planet X ...or maybe Super Planet Y ! The rapture crowd have lot of imagination ..be prepare.They will again deceive many..its written in the stars.

Let me ask you... What are you going to do for seven ( or at least 3 1/2 yrs, after the anitchrist takes full control ) years when you cannot work, cannot buy anything, cannot sell anything, cannot travel.... but must hide from authorities who are killing any Christian found, who will not denounce Christ? Not to forget that if you have any friends that are not Christian they will gladly turn you in.

I can return the question to you...what will you do when you will realize that there will be NO pre-trib rapture nor mid-trib rapture?

You still haven't answered my question... I'm curious. If I'm wrong and the mark comes before the rapture.... I'm going to need a plan... Maybe yours will give me some ideas.... for now... I got nothing.

So, I guess you have no plan. You have no idea what you are going to do. How you are going to avoid being beheaded or take the mark to survive. Seven long years. Or 3 and a half, if you're lucky.

You just state that the rapture will come at the end, or not at all, and Christians will be left here to fend for themselves with no jobs, no money, in hiding and fearing for their lives. With no help from a God who Himself stated that He is the personification of love.

Meanwhile, the one world government will be roaming the globe ferreting out every believer and making them take the mark, denounce Christ or die. Not to mention your best friends, who were not Christian, will be under a strong delusion and more than happy to give you up to the authorities.

 

[Riberra]

So, I guess you have no plan. You have no idea what you are going to do. How you are going to avoid being beheaded or take the mark to survive. Seven long years. Or 3 and a half, if you're lucky.

You just state that the rapture will come at the end, or not at all, and Christians will be left here to fend for themselves with no jobs, no money, in hiding and fearing for their lives. With no help from a God who Himself stated that He is the personification of love.

Meanwhile, the one world government will be roaming the globe ferreting out every believer and making them take the mark, denounce Christ or die. Not to mention your best friends, who were not Christian, will be under a strong delusion and more than happy to give you up to the authorities.

And "WHERE" do you think you will be ?You will soon realize that no rapture is about to happen on Sept 23 ....and no 7 years of tribulation is going to happen soon neither..Your temporary "joy" of "being rapture" will turn into a big deception on Sept 24 !!!

 

[JacksBratt]

And "WHERE" do you think you will be ?You will soon realize that no rapture is about to happen on Sept 23 ....and no 7 years of tribulation is going to happen soon neither..

LOL I never said it was going to be on Sept. 23rd.... Predicting dates is totally unbiblical.

Still no answer huh?

 

[Riberra]

LOL I never said it was going to be on Sept. 23rd.... Predicting dates is totally unbiblical.

Still no answer huh?

That is the Will of God that the Christians will be given in the hand of the Beast during the 42 months reign of the Beast.

Have you never read Daniel 7 ,Daniel 8 or Revelation 13 ?

 

[JacksBratt]

That is the Will of God that the Christians will be given in the hand of the Beast during the 42 months reign of the Beast.

Have you never read Daniel 7 ,Daniel 8 or Revelation 13 ?

So, to be clear, you believe that it is God's will that the Christians, nearly 2 billion (as of 2010) be killed at the hands of the beast, the anti Christ?
Children, at least 12 years old, who are saved and baptized, will be, by God's will, forced to make a decision of denouncing their savior...or.... being beheaded?

Really? The will of God?

 

[Riberra]

So, to be clear, you believe that it is God's will that the Christians, nearly 2 billion (as of 2010) be killed at the hands of the beast, the anti Christ?
Children, at least 12 years old, who are saved and baptized, will be, by God's will, forced to make a decision of denouncing their savior...or.... being beheaded?

Really? The will of God?

Have you never read Daniel 7 ,Daniel 8 or Revelation 13 ?
Oh, i forget :don't worry, you will be raptured before these things will happen....its written in Tim LaHaye books ! LOL !!!

 

[JacksBratt]

Have you never read Daniel 7 ,Daniel 8 or Revelation 13 ?

You really deflect a lot...

Nothing I have ever read, in Daniel, Revelation or anywhere in the entire bible has ever indicated that it is God's will that the entire population of Christians, young and old, be put to the test of "denounce Christ or die".

I have never heard a theologian, minister or preacher who has ever stated this as a biblical teaching.

It has happened to many, however it has always been a pocket of few and held as an atrocity by those who hear about it even if they are not Christian.

So, one more time:

What is your plan? Just walk out and state that you are a Christian and get it over with?
Run, hide somewhere in the forest and live off roots for seven years?
Hope that your friends will help you and hide you away, feed you and look after all your needs?

You are here. The Anti Christ is in power... you are to take the mark or die....

Your move.

 

[Riberra]

You really deflect a lot...

Nothing I have ever read, in Daniel, Revelation or anywhere in the entire bible has ever indicated that it is God's will that the entire population of Christians, young and old, be put to the test of "denounce Christ or die".


I have never heard a theologian, minister or preacher who has ever stated this as a biblical teaching.

It has happened to many, however it has always been a pocket of few and held as an atrocity by those who hear about it even if they are not Christian.

So, one more time:

What is your plan? Just walk out and state that you are a Christian and get it over with?
Run, hide somewhere in the forest and live off roots for seven years?
Hope that your friends will help you and hide you away, feed you and look after all your needs?

You are here. The Anti Christ is in power... you are to take the mark or die....

Your move.

If you are alive when this happen -you- will be there, no matter what is written in Tim LaHaye Books....What you'll gonna do when the Anti Christ is in power and his minions runs wild on you ? ...your move.

 

[Riberra]

You really deflect a lot...

Nothing I have ever read, in Daniel, Revelation or anywhere in the entire bible has ever indicated that it is God's will that the entire population of Christians, young and old, be put to the test of "denounce Christ or die".

I have never heard a theologian, minister or preacher who has ever stated this as a biblical teaching.

It has happened to many, however it has always been a pocket of few and held as an atrocity by those who hear about it even if they are not Christian.

Luke 17:33 KJV
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Revelation 12:11 KJV
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

Revelation 14:9-13 KJV
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard the voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth: yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.

 

[JacksBratt]

Luke 17:33 KJV
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Revelation 12:11 KJV
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

Revelation 14:9-13 KJV
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard the voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth: yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.

Thank you for the scriptures. They are great words to live by.

All I'm saying is that if I believed that I was going to have to spend 3 1/2 to 7 years being homeless, jobless, money less and having the army of whatever territory in which I live trying to find me and have me take the mark...or die.... I would have a plan.

You seem to expect to be in such a situation yet you cannot, or will not, tell me how you expect to deal with it.

It seems odd that you will not answer that particular question. You just keep posting scripture and trying to tell me that I am wrong.

It's a simple question... what are you going to do?

 

[Dave Watchman]

According to those who have used Stelara this particular alignment will not occur again in at least two thousand years. Other alignments occur but nothing that parallels scriptural significance.

I downloaded Stellarium because I HAD to see certain dates with my own eyes. I couldn't trust the Youtube videos or they just didn't offer the data that I needed. I'm comparing the dates of certain specifications of this sign with the third moon of the tetrad and a solar eclipse in 2019. Now someone can Google a phrase like:"Jupiter exits the body of Virgo on October 11, 2017", and find various results that might confirm what they're looking for. But I had to be sure.

Downloading and using this astronomy software for me was a hassle, partly because I run a bunch of old Fisher Price style computers that I found in the trash that are running XP that was downloaded off of a torrent.

I'll leave a link to the last best "lite" version of Stellarium that will easily run on any PC without the "advanced" video card. But check your PC to see if you have a 32 or 64 bit machine before you download a version.

32 bit Stellarium package for old computers with software rendering:

https://launchpad.net/stellarium/0.13/0.13.0/+download/stellarium-0.13.0-MESA-win32.exe

How to tell if you have a 32 or 64 bit machine:

www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001121.htm

Now here's the best part, this is fun. After you have the right version downloaded and running, don't touch anything, go to THIS PAGE and follow each of the steps. You only have to follow about 10 of the 16 inputs and you'll be sliding the Revelation 12 sign around in 15 minutes like a Pro. You'll think that you've been doing it for a year. It's great. Without this page it would probably take me all week to figure out. Actually, I might never have figured it out without "this page".

Here's a screenshot from my clunker PC of one of the areas I'm interested in. After Jupiter leaves the constellation of Virgo it joins Venus in conjunction.

I would recommend that anyone with an interest in this to go ahead and do it.

If I can do it, you know the rest.

Thanks goes to "Brad" for a job well done.

A Step By Step Guide To Viewing The Revelation 12 Sign in Stellarium

"Your belief in the Revelation 12 Sign is directly related to the amount of time you have studied it. One of the best and most essential ways to study this alignment is using astronomy software. I know that nearly all of you reading this have watched countless videos showing the Sign, but have you really seen it for yourself? Many of you have surely downloaded Stellarium already, but this is for all of you who haven't yet! Perhaps you are intimidated by downloading a new software and trying to learn it? Perhaps you think it is too complicated or confusing! Do not think that.... YOU CAN DO IT! I have put together this Step-By-Step Guide to help you do just that! Do not rob yourself of the JOY of exploring this amazing sign for yourself!!

I really believe God blesses us most when we search these types of things out for ourselves... just like the Bible. Do not rely solely on other peoples videos, study the sign for yourself in your own intimate way. Playing it forward and backward will increase your faith in its relevancy tenfold! Your appreciation for all that God has brought together in the sky will leave you in AWE. Next time you have a friend over you will be able to demonstrate it for them too! You can do this... I promise you in much shorter time than you think you will viewing the universe in a way you never thought you could! Download and enjoy a whole new world of wonder today.​

 

[Riberra]

It's a simple question... what are you going to do?

I am not worried at all....

-But for the sake of argument can you tell us
what Scriptures from the Book of Revelation, makes you so sure that YOU will not be there.... if we were to have the misfortune that the 42 months reign of the Beast was to happen tomorrow Revelation 13 ?

-You seem to believe that the Book of Revelation is not addressed to the Christians ....is that right ?

 

[JacksBratt]

I am not worried at all....

-But for the sake of argument can you tell us
what Scriptures from the Book of Revelation, makes you so sure that YOU will not be there.... if we were to have the misfortune that the 42 months reign of the Beast was to happen tomorrow Revelation 13 ?

-You seem to believe that the Book of Revelation is not addressed to the Christians ....is that right ?

I will answer when you tell me what you are going to do for the 7 years of the tribulation, in order to survive.

 

[Dave Watchman]

-But for the sake of argument can you tell us
what Scriptures from the Book of Revelation, makes you so sure that YOU will not be there....

"If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.​

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
​

It's baked in the cake. It's decided before the tribulation starts. It's not going to be luck or where you are.

I am not worried at all....

I am. If anyone doubts the statement that this sign will never happen again, watch the video in post #23, Comet C/2017 E1 (Borisov) comes from out of nowhere and seals the deal.

You guys forgot about something which is not repeating .

I can't say it's going to happen then but the upcoming sign seems very significant and worthy of interest so long as the rarity holds. If it were just a self contained alignment without a scriptural back drop I might not think much of it but it comes with the backdrop of being conceptually equivalent to the actual real world alignment at Jesus's birth described in Rev 12. That chapter includes a second, future part, to the story using the same astrological themes.

But even as I consider this once in an eon comet, I can't say that it's going to happen then either, not on 9/23, I doubt it. Why?

On September 23, 2017, this great sign of the woman forms and lasts for a few hours. The woman is "pregnant" with Jupiter and about to give birth. But that's not what the universe is waiting for. We're waiting for the birth, when the Son of Man is revealed.

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

"And the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.​

We aren't waiting for the conception, or the pregnancy. Neither is the great red dragon. Although that day of conception, when Jupiter entered into the body of Virgo in 2016, made for an amazing number of days for my view.

It's not until around October 11, 2017 that Jupiter EXITS the constellation of Virgo and the Son of Man is revealed. If there is a great red dragon out there, that might be the time that he'll be waiting for. So I can't really count on an exact day or hour for any certain thing to happen. But I'm more interested in the time after 9/23.

 

[Riberra]

I will answer when you tell me what you are going to do for the 7 years of the tribulation, in order to survive.

That is a secret plan...so you will not know it.

But, if you are so sure that you will not be there because you are "SO WORTHY ",why are you so interested to know my plan ?

 

[Riberra]

"If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.​

Not very encouraging ....

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
​

-I also will KEEP thee from the hour of trial-

Where do you see a removal to Heaven in that text ?

It's baked in the cake. It's decided before the tribulation starts. It's not going to be luck or where you are.

You need to define what
-I also will KEEP thee from the hour of trial- means ?

.....obviously that is not about a 7 years trip to Heaven...

 

[Dave Watchman]

Not very encouraging ....

It was meant to be.

-I also will KEEP thee from the hour of trial-

Where do you see a removal to Heaven in that text ?

I don't.

You need to define what
-I also will KEEP thee from the hour of trial- means ?

.....obviously that is not about a 7 years trip to Heaven...

Because you have kept My Word,,,,

I will keep YOU from the hour of trial.

Because you did this for Me,,,,

I will do this for you.

This is decided before the hour of trial begins. Because we have kept His Word to endure patiently, He will keep us through or during the hour of trial. Why? Because we have kept His Word before the hour of trial began.

That word "from", ἐκ, can also mean "through" the hour of trial. He can keep us through the hour of trial, just like He kept Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego "through" Nebuchadnezzar's best fire.

And if you're on this list, you are NOT going to be taken captive, you are NOT going to be slain by the sword. You will be "left" standing to see the Son of Man. And that means you'll go from life to life and never taste physical death.

ἐκ:
from out, out from among, fromfrom out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.
Strong's:
ἐκ:
literal or figurative; direct or remote)
Derivation: a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause;
KJV Usage: after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, …ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out).