Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.

[Rajni]

What if the person doesn't have a conscience, or has seared his conscience by finding ways of justifying his sin? Is it still a sin?

That person would be incapacitated in some way, so they're not able to steer straight. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

[Instrument150]

Exactly. Adam did what God had told him not to do.
We need to follow what God tells us is right. Not what
others say is right for us.

Wow yes, good point. I must meditate on this

 

[Instrument150]

Everything but these


Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Instrument150]

If you are in the Spirit and can justify anything outside of these things as a manifestation of your love for the Lord, you are blameless. Give thanks in all things. But do not flaunt or boast of these things. Your brother may indeed be sinning should he believe you instead of his own spirit. Do these things in quiet, and always in Christ name. If it is not in Christ's name, you will see the fruit later and be corrected

 

[-V-]

That person would be incapacitated in some way, so they're not able to steer straight. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

But if their heart doesn't say they're doing anything wrong, then (according to the OP's logic) they aren't sinning and don't need forgiveness. So what does God need to forgive them for?

 

[Instrument150]

But if their heart doesn't say they're doing anything wrong, then (according to the OP's logic) they aren't sinning and don't need forgiveness. So what does God need to forgive them for?

I think that the thing to remember is that you are not capable of making these decisions until you are mature in the ways of The Holy Spirit. The man whose eye is not single cannot righteously decide what is sin and what is not. There are too many other voices justifying things in too many ways

 

[Rajni]

But if their heart doesn't say they're doing anything wrong, then (according to the OP's logic) they aren't sinning and don't need forgiveness. So what does God need to forgive them for?

That's actually a good question.

I wonder why Jesus asked God to forgive if "they knew not what they do". What was there to forgive if they didn't even know what they were doing? If they did know what they were doing, that would be one thing, but they didn't.

Something to ponder, there...


-

 

[Instrument150]

That's actually a good question.

I wonder why Jesus asked God to forgive if "they knew not what they do". What was there to forgive if they didn't even know what they were doing? If they did know what they were doing, that would be one thing, but they didn't.

Something to ponder, there...


-

Perhaps it is because the Resurrection had not happened yet, therefore they had no reason to believe they were doing? Only speculation

 

[-V-]

I think that the thing to remember is that you are not capable of making these decisions until you are mature in the ways of The Holy Spirit. The man whose eye is not single cannot righteously decide what is sin and what is not. There are too many other voices justifying things in too many ways

That may be so, but it's completely missing the point/argument of the OP. Mature in the Holy Spirit or not is completely irrelevant to the OP. It's strictly a matter of following one's heart. As long as you're going with your own personal belief (again, this is according to the OP), then you're not sinning.

That's actually a good question.

I wonder why Jesus asked God to forgive if "they knew not what they do". What was there to forgive if they didn't even know what they were doing? If they did know what they were doing, that would be one thing, but they didn't.

Something to ponder, there...

They needed forgiveness because, quite simply, their own personal opinion had no bearing on the fact that they were tormenting and executing an innocent man. They were sinning regardless of their personal feelings on the matter.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I once heard a Presbyterian minister define sin as anything that stands between you and God. I've always rather liked that. Therefore, I've always held that there are two classifications to sin: (a) Those things that are defined as sin by scripture or by holy tradition, and (b) those things that violate your conscience, induce guilt, and stand between you and God. I conclude there are some things that are sins for everyone (as defined by scripture or tradition) and some things that are personal to an individual.

For example, I knew a fellow who had been quite the card player. He would rather play cards than do anything else. If there was a card game to be found, he wouldn't be in church or be doing anything else of value. When he became a Christian, he decided he had to quit playing cards. He thought it would be too great a temptation and therefore a sin for him. The Bible doesn't say euchre or bridge is a sin. It wouldn't be a sin for me because, while I enjoy an occasional card game, I'm not consumed by it. But, it violated his conscience to the degree that he thought it was a sin for him.

There is a reason we are gifted with a conscience. I always encourage people to follow theirs.

 

[Tolworth John]

So, as you can read, Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience

Only if you also believe that criminality is a matter of personal conscience.
If the law of the land can say that driving through a red light is wrong then a supernatural being laying down rules for our compliance with is not a matter of our opinion.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually, those verses make the case for innocent ignorance (I didn't know it was wrong) instead of moral relativism (I don't feel it was wrong). Nowhere in scripture does God qualify defining sin with "...unless you disagree."

You seem to be turning the OP post on its head, looking at it from a different perspective, and not addressing at all the point he made.

 

[Dave-W]

I once heard a Presbyterian minister define sin as anything that stands between you and God. I've always rather liked that. Therefore, I've always held that there are two classifications to sin: (a) Those things that are defined as sin by scripture or by holy tradition, and (b) those things that violate your conscience, induce guilt, and stand between you and God. I conclude there are some things that are sins for everyone (as defined by scripture or tradition) and some things that are personal to an individual.

There are more than that. Indeed, there is even a potential situation where you sin if you do and you sin if you don't.

 

[Dave-W]

Lets say "experience" as in sex then. "Know-ing"

Derek Prince once pointed out that the biblical statements were very consistent across the board. To have sex without marriage was "laying with." Only when a couple is bound in the marriage covenant is it called "knowing."

 

[Dave-W]

But if their heart doesn't say they're doing anything wrong, then (according to the OP's logic) they aren't sinning and don't need forgiveness. So what does God need to forgive them for?

Again, you are not understanding what the OP was saying. That is not the ONLY kind of sin, but it is a true kind of sin.

 

[Adstar]

I was raised in a fundamentalist church.
The literal letter was everything. At times anyway.
No one plucked their eye out if it caused them to sin In thought, word or deed.

Neither should they have plucked their eyes out.. They are under Grace so their sins are forgivne them..

 

[Adstar]

I used to think the same thing for 20 years.
I took me a while to see farther into scripture
past the laws of the OT. I held on tight to laws.

Seems you have gone from extremist Law / works salvation religion to the opposite extreme..

Salvation comes by believing God and trusting G

It seems to me you once thought salvation came by obeying the Law and performing it..
And now you have cast out the Laws with the works mentality bathwater..

 

[SkyWriting]

Seems you have gone from extremist Law / works salvation religion to the opposite extreme..
Salvation comes by believing God and trusting G
It seems to me you once thought salvation came by obeying the Law and performing it..
And now you have cast out the Laws with the works mentality bathwater..

Like what scripture says:

Romans 14
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

 

[SkyWriting]

Again, you are not understanding what the OP was saying. That is not the ONLY kind of sin, but it is a true kind of sin.

There is only one kind.
That is acting or thinking without checking with God first.
That may come in two different flavors:
God is not here, so there is positional Sin.
God has impressed on you His will by way of His Holy Spirit,
and you choose otherwise and cause harm.

The payment for either is death.

 

[Adstar]

Like what scripture says:

Romans 14
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

Good scriptures.. I do not stone or imprison or whip anyone.. But i give warning to people.. Warning of Gods judgement wich is far worse then anything men could do to us..

PS and in context the passage is talking about foods which we are no longer under OT kosher law.. It is not talking about Adultry Murder Thieft Fornication and like things..

Oh and about going from one false extreme to another all the while rejecting the Love of the truth the following scripture gives a symbolic representation of it in the end times..

(Isaiah 24:17-18) "Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. {18} And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake."