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RDKirk

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When people gather together in a worship building, they are willingly submitting to the authority of the leaders/organizers that run that place of worship.
So in line with that, they are submitting to the preaching that is offered. In that context, the preacher is using his knowledge and his motives to shape what the people believe. Regardless if they agree with everything, the participants are still submitting (to an extent) to the authority granted to that preacher.

That is not "authority." That's just "expounding the gospel."

The authorities of the congregation are the "elders" (Greek: presbuteros). They are the ones who have met the scriptural standards for being trusted authority in the congregation. NOBODY else is in authority. A congregation may call them different things--one denomination may call them "deacons," another may call them "elders," another may call them "trustees"--but those are the only persons who have authority. Authority and accountability go hand-in-hand in scripture. What a person has authority over, he also has accountability for. The elders who have authority over members are also accountable to the Lord for their well-being.

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. -- Hebrews 13

The person they invited to speak for a Sunday has zero authority and zero accountability in the congregation. He can't even say anything the real authorities--the congregational elders--don't approve of. What he says is by their approval and bidding. The guest speaker is under their authority.
 
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dreadnought

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Why are you changing what Paul said? He said we are not under the MOSAIC law.
No, that isn't what he said:
But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. Gal 5:18 RSV
 
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dreadnought

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I think you're talking to someone else with that question. If you're going to direct questions to me, please at least read what I have written.
No one has time to read all 182 posts on this thread, and many of those posts are too long to be read in their entirety.
 
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RDKirk

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No one has time to read all 182 posts on this thread, and many of those posts are too long to be read in their entirety.

Well you could have at least read the post you quoted and responded to that instead of something someone else said.
 
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woobadooba

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To get at the root of what Paul meant by saying, "I do not permit a woman to teach...", I believe it is important to remember that the early Christians were Jews; it is within their culture that such sayings need to be examined.

Having said that, how were women treated back then? The answer to this question should shed light on why they were commanded to be silent.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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To get at the root of what Paul meant by saying, "I do not permit a woman to teach...", I believe it is important to remember that the early Christians were Jews;

Many were not.
 
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Paidiske

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For people who view church ministry through the lens of power politics, to deny people power is by definition to oppress them...

I suspect that the accusation of "power politics" is intended as a criticism.

But power is not irrelevant to the reign of God. Jesus came to proclaim freedom to the captives, and that means a shifting of power.

I'm not interested in power for its own sake. I'm interested in power shared and distributed so that all may participate in the reign of God to the full. So yes, I'm critical of those who hoard power and seek to control others, not because I want that power for myself, but because I want to see all of the children of God empowered to use their gifts, to live out their vocation, and to make a difference for the kingdom.
 
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Cheyann

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I read a comment given in response to a video of a woman who gave a sermon in a church.

The commenter asked: "Why is a woman preaching?"

The response he got was: "Today was women's Emphasis Sabbath."

He then responded: "Not being hateful. Just wondering. It just didn't seem to be right."

What are your thoughts about women preaching in church? I know Paul had something to say about women not teaching in the church but remaining silent (1 Tim. 2:12).

Was that Paul's personal belief? Was it a command of God? Did it have anything to do with culture?

Share your thoughts...
God has women preachers. Just as long as it is truth.
 
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pescador

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To get at the root of what Paul meant by saying, "I do not permit a woman to teach...", I believe it is important to remember that the early Christians were Jews; it is within their culture that such sayings need to be examined.

Having said that, how were women treated back then? The answer to this question should shed light on why they were commanded to be silent.

It is my understanding that certain women were speaking out of turn in church and generally disrupting the service. Paul said that he didn't permit that but I don't see that as a ban on women fulfilling any role in the church, then or now. "There is neither male nor female ... in Christ Jesus".
 
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Haipule

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I read a comment given in response to a video of a woman who gave a sermon in a church.

The commenter asked: "Why is a woman preaching?"

The response he got was: "Today was women's Emphasis Sabbath."

He then responded: "Not being hateful. Just wondering. It just didn't seem to be right."

What are your thoughts about women preaching in church? I know Paul had something to say about women not teaching in the church but remaining silent (1 Tim. 2:12).

Was that Paul's personal belief? Was it a command of God? Did it have anything to do with culture?

Share your thoughts...
Women in the Church

Hyper-Literal: For(conjunction assigning a reason) not He-is of-confusion/disorder(akatastasia-un-down-from--authority--set/stand) thee God but-rather of-peace(absence of strife) as in all thee Called-Outs(assemblies of out-called-ones i.e., Churches) of the pure(separating a class from a class)-ones. The-all wives of-you-all in thee Called-Outs(Churches, assemblies of called-out-ones) be!-they-hushing(keeping their peace) for(assigning a reason) not they-have-been-over(with authority)-turned/allowed to-them-all lalein(be-speaking-nonsense, flirting) but-rather under(acting upon themselves logically and prudently)-being-set/placed down-from(authority)-as and-also thee Law(instruction, masculine) he(instruction)-is-saying. Yet if any-thing to-learn* they-are-willing in(at) home thee own husbands on-over(authority, i.e., husbands)-them(wives)-be!-asking/questioning/enquiring. For(assigning a reason) dishonorable it-is TO-wives(other than your own) in Called-Out(Church, assembly of called-out) lalein(to-speak-nonsense, flirt) or from of-you-all(men who speak nonsense to another man’s wife) the word(masculine) of-thee God He(word)-out-from-came-forth?* or into you-all(men who speak nonsense to another man’s wife) only he(word)-down-from-arrives? If anyone(he) he-is-supposing prophet to-be or pneumatic(production of pneuma-breath, pneumatikos man), over(with authority i.e., Paul’s teaching)-he(supposed prophet)-to-ascertain which-all-things I-am-writing to-you-all that of-thee Lord(Master, authority) they(writings)-are-all entolai(in-destiny, literally: you’re being in the destiny of your calling). I Cor 14:33-37

Paul is NOT saying that women should keep silent in the Church(assembly of called-out-ones), but that the word of the day is order, not disorder. If men; to another man’s wife, to be speaking nonsense, and women; to another women’s husband, to be speaking nonsense; then there will be chaos in the Church--guaranteed!

This is why Paul gave instruction to pastors to have the older women teach the younger women so as to not take them(hot young babes) into their private chamber for “personal” counseling, as that will lead to chaos! Yet, how many Churches(assemblies of called-out-ones), in our history, have not harkened to Paul’s wisdom and split church, after church, giving “personal” council to hot young babes!

“Women keep silent in the church”--NONSENSE! Women give the well-message concerning exhortation better than anyone I have ever heard! I think it is partly because they have learned to be wives and we men have to learn from them what it is to be the betrothed of God! Women, speak up! Your words, like you, are beautiful!
 
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Strong in Him

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In the Bible

Where in the Bible?
Where are the words, "God says, 'women must never preach in church or to men - ever' "? And if those exact words aren't there, which verses/passages lead you to believe that he has said this, and why?
 
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Brokenhill

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That is not "authority." That's just "expounding the gospel."

The authorities of the congregation are the "elders" (Greek: presbuteros). They are the ones who have met the scriptural standards for being trusted authority in the congregation. NOBODY else is in authority. A congregation may call them different things--one denomination may call them "deacons," another may call them "elders," another may call them "trustees"--but those are the only persons who have authority. Authority and accountability go hand-in-hand in scripture. What a person has authority over, he also has accountability for. The elders who have authority over members are also accountable to the Lord for their well-being.

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. -- Hebrews 13

The person they invited to speak for a Sunday has zero authority and zero accountability in the congregation. He can't even say anything the real authorities--the congregational elders--don't approve of. What he says is by their approval and bidding. The guest speaker is under their authority.
I understand your point, and largely agree.
The NT does however touch on other areas of (what appears to be) authority in the hands of non-elders. For example, in Acts chapter 6 deacons are selected by the rest of the assembly of Christians.
Also, Paul instructs a non-apostle--Titus, who is a preacher/teacher--to "appoint elders in every church" in Titus 1:5. How this may be an exception because it was by Paul's direct commission, idk, but it's at least interesting to contemplate when looking at authority in the church.

But regardless, in 1 Tim 2:12, women teaching is mentioned separately from exercising authority.
"12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."
 
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Brokenhill

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Where in the Bible?
Where are the words, "God says, 'women must never preach in church or to men - ever' "? And if those exact words aren't there, which verses/passages lead you to believe that he has said this, and why?
If your standard of divine oracle is direct dictation by God, then after removing all the rest, you aren't left with much Bible. God did not usually use that method.

But anyway,
Romans 1:1 "Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, a]">[a]called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,"
Paul was chosen to preach the gospel, and the epistles he wrote include topics of extension of the teaching of the gospel. They aid in the fulfillment of the gospel's purpose and the sustaining of it. Therefor, when he teaches on women's roles in the church, he is teaching God's desires for the fulfillment of the gospel.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Women in the Church

Hyper-Literal: For(conjunction assigning a reason) not He-is of-confusion/disorder(akatastasia-un-down-from--authority--set/stand) thee God but-rather of-peace(absence of strife) as in all thee Called-Outs(assemblies of out-called-ones i.e., Churches) of the pure(separating a class from a class)-ones. The-all wives of-you-all in thee Called-Outs(Churches, assemblies of called-out-ones) be!-they-hushing(keeping their peace) for(assigning a reason) not they-have-been-over(with authority)-turned/allowed to-them-all lalein(be-speaking-nonsense, flirting) but-rather under(acting upon themselves logically and prudently)-being-set/placed down-from(authority)-as and-also thee Law(instruction, masculine) he(instruction)-is-saying. Yet if any-thing to-learn* they-are-willing in(at) home thee own husbands on-over(authority, i.e., husbands)-them(wives)-be!-asking/questioning/enquiring. For(assigning a reason) dishonorable it-is TO-wives(other than your own) in Called-Out(Church, assembly of called-out) lalein(to-speak-nonsense, flirt) or from of-you-all(men who speak nonsense to another man’s wife) the word(masculine) of-thee God He(word)-out-from-came-forth?* or into you-all(men who speak nonsense to another man’s wife) only he(word)-down-from-arrives? If anyone(he) he-is-supposing prophet to-be or pneumatic(production of pneuma-breath, pneumatikos man), over(with authority i.e., Paul’s teaching)-he(supposed prophet)-to-ascertain which-all-things I-am-writing to-you-all that of-thee Lord(Master, authority) they(writings)-are-all entolai(in-destiny, literally: you’re being in the destiny of your calling). I Cor 14:33-37

Paul is NOT saying that women should keep silent in the Church(assembly of called-out-ones), but that the word of the day is order, not disorder. If men; to another man’s wife, to be speaking nonsense, and women; to another women’s husband, to be speaking nonsense; then there will be chaos in the Church--guaranteed!

This is why Paul gave instruction to pastors to have the older women teach the younger women so as to not take them(hot young babes) into their private chamber for “personal” counseling, as that will lead to chaos! Yet, how many Churches(assemblies of called-out-ones), in our history, have not harkened to Paul’s wisdom and split church, after church, giving “personal” council to hot young babes!

“Women keep silent in the church”--NONSENSE! Women give the well-message concerning exhortation better than anyone I have ever heard! I think it is partly because they have learned to be wives and we men have to learn from them what it is to be the betrothed of God! Women, speak up! Your words, like you, are beautiful!

Rant all you want. The instruction and design are clear. Men head marriage and church.
 
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Haipule

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Rant all you want. The instruction and design are clear. Men head marriage and church.
I didn't question authority! I merely played show and tell with Paul's words to the Corinthians that is badly misunderstood and misrepresented by the church. A friend of mine who looks just like you in a mirror already told me about "ranting". That post was pure love Brother!
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I didn't question authority! I merely played show and tell with Paul's words to the Corinthians that is badly misunderstood and misrepresented by the church. A friend of mine who looks just like you in a mirror already told me about "ranting". That post was pure love Brother!

Maybe I misunderstood you. If you are encouraging older women to instruct younger women, that one thing, but if you are encouraging women to teach men, that is quite another.
 
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