Noah's Ark

[Obliquinaut]

Verses out of context are worthless in a debate.

You are still calling God a liar when you demand that Genesis be read literally.

Personally if someone wants to take the Bible perfectly literally I figure that's up to them. It will draw them pretty far from reality but that's their problem (and so long as they don't force anyone else to cleave to that idea, it's not a problem for anyone else).

But for me it really saps the life out of the Bible. There's some truly awful stuff in the Bible but there's also some really wonderful, beautiful things. And when someone demands that it be literal it takes it from beautiful prose and turns it into some sort of line-drawing text-based flowchart. Ugh.

I read patents for a living. They are deadly dull and dry mechanistic documents that are crafted specifically to do ONE THING and ONE THING ONLY. Now don't get me wrong, I love the mathematical precision or arabesques necessary to puzzle through them, but I also love good prose. Patents seldom if ever provide good prose. No "art", no "beauty" apart from the utility they serve. (The same isn't always true for patent law, which can sometimes be kinda funny, but a very specific type of funny).

What I think biblical literalists are doing is treating the bible like a means-plus-function set of processes to achieve salvation. As such it is dry as a bone but it serves that single purpose, to give them the recipe to achieve salvation.

That version of the Bible has zero value to me. It lacks the beauty and fascination of the human experience that I value in allegory and metaphor (and even crude attempts to explain a world they barely understood).

One of my favorite parts of the OT is the middle part of the book of Job. It's one of the most moving and incredible discourses on senseless pain that humans are prone to experience. But the beginning and end parts of Job where God is depicted as a petulant toddler offends me with it's banality and sickening "theology".

But for those who must see it all as perfectly literal it will provide more useful information and it is all part and parcel of what is necessary.

I don't begrudge them their desire to see it as literal...I just feel it is kind of a sad waste of some pretty cool writing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Personally if someone wants to take the Bible perfectly literally I figure that's up to them. It will draw them pretty far from reality but that's their problem (and so long as they don't force anyone else to cleave to that idea, it's not a problem for anyone else).

But for me it really saps the life out of the Bible. There's some truly awful stuff in the Bible but there's also some really wonderful, beautiful things. And when someone demands that it be literal it takes it from beautiful prose and turns it into some sort of line-drawing text-based flowchart. Ugh.

I read patents for a living. They are deadly dull and dry mechanistic documents that are crafted specifically to do ONE THING and ONE THING ONLY. Now don't get me wrong, I love the mathematical precision or arabesques necessary to puzzle through them, but I also love good prose. Patents seldom if ever provide good prose. No "art", no "beauty" apart from the utility they serve. (The same isn't always true for patent law, which can sometimes be kinda funny, but a very specific type of funny).

What I think biblical literalists are doing is treating the bible like a means-plus-function set of processes to achieve salvation. As such it is dry as a bone but it serves that single purpose, to give them the recipe to achieve salvation.

That version of the Bible has zero value to me. It lacks the beauty and fascination of the human experience that I value in allegory and metaphor (and even crude attempts to explain a world they barely understood).

One of my favorite parts of the OT is the middle part of the book of Job. It's one of the most moving and incredible discourses on senseless pain that humans are prone to experience. But the beginning and end parts of Job where God is depicted as a petulant toddler offends me with it's banality and sickening "theology".

But for those who must see it all as perfectly literal it will provide more useful information and it is all part and parcel of what is necessary.

I don't begrudge them their desire to see it as literal...I just feel it is kind of a sad waste of some pretty cool writing.

Yep there is some real beauty in the Bible. But if one takes it literally it will set your head spinning. God is portrayed as a hero and a villain. A genius and well let's say not a genius. It has excellent morals and some of the worst morals in the world. And parts are genuine good reading. And some parts are probably almost as dry as the patent applications that you have to read.

A couple of personal questions. Where on Earth do you find an electric car that you can lease for $80.00 a month? And I have heard that an over unity device is supposedly impossible to patent, though people have gained patents when they hid the supposed purpose of their machine. Have you ever run into someone trying to patent such an object?

No need to answer if you do not feel like it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a'a

.... a, ay, aye,
..
alpha, omega, aardvark , .... .... .... ....
....
..
oy , oy gevalt, shalom , Shalom Aleikhem
....

 

[Obliquinaut]

A couple of personal questions. Where on Earth do you find an electric car that you can lease for $80.00 a month?

My wife works for a university in California and they ran a deal with Smart. The university was going to get a fleet of them or something so they ended up setting up some deal with Mercedes Benz and offered it to employees. The lease is actually just the lease for the battery. We had to pay a down payment but upon selling my old Yaris we had plenty to cover it. Effectively it made for 3 years of a "free car". And since we have solar (and where we live now there's also access to free charging stations at my work) so it's effectively FREE FUEL as well. It's sweeeet. (And don't think we don't scratch our heads over how bizarre this is).

I know it's a Smart and not everyone likes a small car, but we really dig it. We rented a Smart (gasoline) in Scotland about 10 years ago and we really liked it. The only downside is it only has a 50mile range on a charge (!) So it ain't no Tesla.

At the end of the lease (2 more years) I plan on looking at either a Chevy Bolt or preferably a Tesla Model 3 will be available at that time.

And I have heard that an over unity device is supposedly impossible to patent, though people have gained patents when they hid the supposed purpose of their machine.

Now mind you, I'm not a patent attorney or a patent agent, just an IP analyst, so this is based on my lower non-legal level of knowledge of patent law but a patent has to be workable. It has to have "Utility" (35USC101) . Perpetual motion machines per se are usually rejected by the USPTO on grounds of utility.

There's actually a patent law case that deals with this (even though apparently it is not uncommon for people to try to patent perpetual motion). The court case from 1989 was apparently run up through various appeals.

The reason that there even is any thought into this is because the patent office will sometimes get patent applications for things that are thought not to work but are later found to be real (ie NOT those that violate thermodynamic laws). Often I believe they may require substantial proof of "reduction to practice" or making the thing you say you are making (although some patents are allowed with what is called "Constructive Reduction to Practice" which happens basically when you file the patent. But sometimes much more proof is needed.

Have you ever run into someone trying to patent such an object?

Since I am not an examiner but rather work as an IP analyst for a company no. My job is to work with the engineers in various teams I used to be on as a scientist to get their inventions through our legal system and handed off to patent attys. And also to provide feedback to various development programs as to the state of the IP of competitors in various spaces.

The most fun I have in my job is to run across some really interesting "machine translated Japanes patents" which often read quite surreally. And then there are occasions when you run across absolutely hilarious patent illustrations. There's actually humor to be found in patents if you are desperate enough!

 

[Obliquinaut]

though people have gained patents when they hid the supposed purpose of their machine.

That's actually pretty interesting to think about. I wonder what the implications of this would be to the patent that is granted.

Interestingly enough there's actually a patent law case about patenting something that is made specifically to fool people into thinking it is something that it isn't really. This is one of my favorite patent law cases (I did NOT MAKE UP THE NAME OF THIS CASE): Juicy Whip v Orange Bang (85 F.3d 1364 (Fed. Cir. 1999)) . It was about a drink mixer that was basically designed to look like a different kind of drink mixer and the question was if it lacked utility and was an attempt to patent something that was intent on deceiving people. Apparently the court of appeals felt that it did not lack utility and so it could be granted a patent even though a lower court felt it should not.

 

[AV1611VET]

.... a, ay, aye,
..
alpha, omega, aardvark , .... .... .... ....
....
..
oy , oy gevalt, shalom , Shalom Aleikhem
....

It is "yes" in the Chamorro language.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is "yes" in the Chamorro language.

Cool.

I don't think any language works for unbelievers, if they don't want to believe.... they just go on, and on, and on...... even when someone comes back from the dead to warn them, many remain in unbelief....

 

[AV1611VET]

Cool.

I don't think any language works for unbelievers, if they don't want to believe.... they just go on, and on, and on...... even when someone comes back from the dead to warn them, many remain in unbelief....

Unbelief is a miserable state to be in.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't begrudge them their desire to see it as literal...I just feel it is kind of a sad waste of some pretty cool writing.

Just curious about something:

Have you ever been to Boston?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Unbelief is a miserable state to be in.

I'm not sure "belief" in the usa is a pleasant state to be in - on the news a few minutes ago, S ??>< B >? C <<<<<<<<< wrong way ...
they showcased
a person over 30 years old on 27 drugs.
Cost 945,000.00 PER YEAR paid by medidaid(sick/sic) ....
for a condition curable in europe for about $3000.00 total.
It is curable in ASU <<<<<<<<<< wrong way
also, but it is not legal for anyone licensed to talk about.

So compare almost a million dollars a year, with many side effects...
vs $3000.00 over a few months time, once, with no side effects...

"belief" in satan's system reaps many such benefits - main effects and side effects...
The whole world's "belief" system is faulty, false, misleading, death dealing...

Hey, even 2000 years ago, God's Word warns "the whole world will be deceived" (not just part of the world/society) ....

They still have "belief".... shake shake shake..... just not in God nor in God's Way; not even seeking truth....

 

[Obliquinaut]

Just curious about something:

Have you ever been to Boston?

Used to live there. Why?

 

[AV1611VET]

Used to live there. Why?

Did you have a roommate there?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Did you have a roommate there?

Does my wife count?

 

[AV1611VET]

Does my wife count?

Are you Thaumaturgy?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Are you Thaumaturgy?

I am Obliquinaut. Whats a Thaumaturgy? (I googled it, it looks like a "Miracle"? I am pretty miraculous, no doubt, at least that's what everyone tells me. Well, actually only when I'm walking on water, but that's only occasionally).

 

[AV1611VET]

I am Obliquinaut. Whats a Thaumaturgy? (I googled it, it looks like a "Miracle"? I am pretty miraculous, no doubt, at least that's what everyone tells me. Well, actually only when I'm walking on water, but that's only occasionally).

412

 

[Obliquinaut]

412

That sounds reasonable enough. As I've said I think the Bible can be read to be allegorical and actually quite interesting for that!

And from what I've read on here you seem to be of the opinion that Genesis is literal (aided by various hypothetical additions, obviously, things like your "real-age-in-the-young-rocks" sort of argument). That isn't really science (science would start with no preconceptions in the ideal, rather than simply claiming one dataset is inviolable and all others have to match it or be tossed).

I don't see your position as particularly honoring science, but rather honoring a few items from science. Sort of in spite of how science actually operates.

Just like I think there's value to be had form some parts of Christian ideals but I don't necessarily believe in Christ as the savior (not entirely certain there's sufficient evidence that he even existed or at the very least was a supernatural/natural being.)

So I'm not "honoring" Christianity per se. I'm just picking the things I think that work from it.

(This is not to say that I don't "honor" the fact that many --if not most-- of my friends are Christians and I think they do good with it.)

 

[AV1611VET]

Just like I think there's value to be had form some parts of Christian ideals but I don't necessarily believe in Christ as the savior (not entirely certain there's sufficient evidence that he even existed or at the very least was a supernatural/natural being.)

Just so you know:

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically,

SOURCE

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just so you know:


SOURCE

You do realize that there is a big difference between them agreeing that Jesus existed and believing the accounts in the Gospels, don't you?

For example every historian agrees that this man was that Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States of America. But there are many stories about him that very few believe. The worst being Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter.

It used to amaze me that those that study the Bible seriously had a higher atheism rate than the general public. When I believed I thought that Biblical scholars should have the strongest beliefs. But as I studied more myself I saw why they had a higher rate. Studying the Bible and religion in general is a pathway to atheism.

Perhaps that is why the Catholic Church was so against private ownership of Bibles for so long.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Studying the Bible and religion in general is a pathway to atheism.

Seeking YHWH is the WAY, TRUTH and LIFE.

Most people go along with you to destruction , defilement and death forever.

Everyone chooses.