The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

• I claim that I have learned to be led by the Spirit, and to walk according to the Spirit within, so that I am not under the law.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

• I don't walk according to the flesh, whereby the flesh leads my life to practice it's works.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


If you are asking me about breaking any of the commandments, then we can go done the list.

1. Do I worship other gods: No
2. Do I make idols and bow down to them: No
3. Do I take the name of the Lord in vain: Possibly [blurt out Oh Lord Jesus, in traffic]
4. Keep the Sabbath holy: Not like the law of Moses
5. Honor Parents: Yes, but not like Jesus.
6. Murder: No
7. Adultery: No
8. Steal: No
9. Bear false witness against my neighbor: No
10. Covet neighbors belongings: No

I have learned that if I sin, I confess my sin, and He is faithful to forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.



JLB

Adultery is looking at a woman with lust in your eye. You have already co.mitted adultery with her in your heart.
Coveting is desiring g anyone or anything that is not yours to desire
Let's hold the law unto it's pristine level.

As you seem unable to tell me if a person must faultlessly obey the law/ not commit sin, in order to not be under the law, there is nothing left to discuss I am afraid.
I would suggest further study on your part so you may be able in future to answer questions you may be asked

 

[stuart lawrence]

Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB

If you follow after someone you are being led by them aren't you?

 

[JLB777]

If you follow after someone you are being led by them aren't you?

No.

Can you see where the Holy Spirit is walking up ahead of you, so you can follow the Holy Spirit?

No.

That is not what this scripture means.

As I have shown you from the context, Paul is contrasting a person who lives their life, according to the desires of the flesh, verses the person who lives their life according to the Spirit of God within.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

We are not indebted to our flesh, to obey it's sinful lust's.

We are indebted to the Spirit of God within us, to obey His righteous desires, leadings, manifestations, and workings.

We are not to present the members of our body, as a slave to sin.

We are to present the members of our body to God, to be salves of righteousness, obeying the Holy Spirit's promptings and leadings from within our heart, rather than obeying the sinful desires of our flesh.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14

• do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
• do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
• present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

We are under Grace; The Spirit of Grace.

Here is what Grace teaches us:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

• the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age

• denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Adultery is looking at a woman with lust in your eye. You have already co.mitted adultery with her in your heart.

Which is why I don't hang around where women, prance around half naked, or stare at a woman with lust.

The main thing is, I have learned to spend time alone with God everyday, and spend time meditating on His word, and listening to godly music, and setting my mind on things of the Spirit.

When we spend time with God everyday, worshiping Him, praying in the spirit, and interceeding for our loved ones, and those He outs on our heart, we will always ask Him to forgive our sins, and come before him Him to cleanse us of sins we are not even aware of.

Making this a practice, I have found to be the best way to live according to the Spirit, rather than the desires of my flesh.

Being filled with the Spirit, is the key to crucifying the flesh.


JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

Which is why I don't hang around where women, prance around half naked, or stare at a woman with lust.

The main thing is, I have learned to spend time alone with God everyday, and spend time meditating on His word, and listening to godly music, and setting my mind on things of the Spirit.

When we spend time with God everyday, worshiping Him, praying in the spirit, and interceeding for our loved ones, and those He outs on our heart, we will always ask Him to forgive our sins, and come before him Him to cleanse us of sins we are not even aware of.

Making this a practice, I have found to be the best way to live according to the Spirit, rather than the desires of my flesh.

Being filled with the Spirit, is the key to crucifying the flesh.


JLB

There's no point in quoting much scripture if you cannot answer simple questions put to you concerning the scripture you quote

 

[stuart lawrence]

No.

Can you see where the Holy Spirit is walking up ahead of you, so you can follow the Holy Spirit?

No.

That is not what this scripture means.

As I have shown you from the context, Paul is contrasting a person who lives their life, according to the desires of the flesh, verses the person who lives their life according to the Spirit of God within.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

We are not indebted to our flesh, to obey it's sinful lust's.

We are indebted to the Spirit of God within us, to obey His righteous desires, leadings, manifestations, and workings.

We are not to present the members of our body, as a slave to sin.

We are to present the members of our body to God, to be salves of righteousness, obeying the Holy Spirit's promptings and leadings from within our heart, rather than obeying the sinful desires of our flesh.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14

• do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
• do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
• present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

We are under Grace; The Spirit of Grace.

Here is what Grace teaches us:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

• the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age

• denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly

JLB

Can you be led of the Spirit if you do not faultlessly obey the law/ and therefore commit sin
In other words. Must you perfectly obey the law in order not to be under the law?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Corinthians 7:1 does not make a lick of sense in light of the breaking of the moral laws and still be saved type gospel. We are told to perfect holiness in the fear of God. Okay. Why even bother to perfect holiness if one is holy already by having a belief on Jesus? Next, why even fear God if one is forever saved by having a belief on Jesus? I have a belief on Jesus, too. So that means even errors in my thinking should not disqualify me from entering God's kingdom. Yet, no doubt there are Eternal Security proponents who would probably think I am not saved. They wrongfully think I am trying to save myself alone when that is not true. Jesus saves both in Justification and in Sanctification. It is our choosing to abide in Christ or not and the good work He wants to do through us. Also, 2 Corinthians 7:1 says we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit. This does not make sense in the belief that says you will always be a slave to your sin in this life type of belief. One is not truly cleansing themselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit if they are ALSO holding to the bellief that they are going to sin again by some uncontrollable sin nature. Oh, and one is automatically saved even when they sin again by this uncontrollable sin nature. So if one falls into watching inappropriate content on occasion, or if one smokes weed on occasion, or if one abuses people physically on occasion, it's all good because one is not under the Law salvation wise. But that is not what the Bible teaches.

There are degrees of sin; To ignore this is to ignore Scripture (Matthew 12:22-32) (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42) (John 19:11) (1 John 5:16-17).


....

 

[JLB777]

Can you be led of the Spirit if you do not faultlessly obey the law/ and therefore commit sin
In other words.

Makes no sense!

If you are led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what is right before God.

If you are not led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what the flesh wants to do.

Must you perfectly obey the law in order not to be under the law?

I'm not under the law of Moses, since it has been abolished in His flesh, being nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14


having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15


JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Jason will tell you the above only concerns non applicable old( covenant) law.
If he is right, Paul made an incorrect statement. For that law could be faultlessly obeyed, therefore you could be righteous under it

 

[stuart lawrence]

Makes no sense!

If you are led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what is right before God.

If you are not led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what the flesh wants to do.





I'm not under the law of Moses, since it has been abolished in His flesh, being nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14


having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15


JLB

Has the TC/ moral law been abolished?

 

[stuart lawrence]

You cannot be guilty of sin apart from law. If all the law is truly abolished, sin cannot condemn you

 

[stuart lawrence]

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

How can the above be true if the law is abolished?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Jason will tell you the above only concerns non applicable old( covenant) law.
If he is right, Paul made an incorrect statement. For that law could be faultlessly obeyed, therefore you could be righteous under it

I do not believe I am under the Old Covenant Law.
I believe the laws and commands in the New Testament apply to the believer today.
There are many commands in the New Testament for us believers to follow.
Some of these commands (if disobeyed) are attached with spiritual death penalties and other commands are not attached with any consequences.

To assume that we are not to follow these commands is to go against what God has commanded us to do. Why put more commands in His Word if all law was to be put away? It doesn't make sense. We should expect to see a lawless New Testament devoid of no commands if your belief was actually true. But we know that this is not the case. God desires us to obey Him. That is why there are commands in the New Testament in the first place. God does not change.

Yes, I know. You said you think we do have to obey these laws, yet, they do not simply relate to our salvation. This is wrong because that means we can do evil and still be saved. Unless of course you do not think it is wrong to do certain evils.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I do not believe I am under the Old Covenant Law.
I believe the laws and commands in the New Testament apply to the believer today.
There are many commands in the New Testament for us believers to follow.
Some of these commands (if disobeyed) are attached with spiritual death penalties and other commands are not attached with any consequences.

To assume that we are not to follow these commands is to go against what God has commanded us to do. Why put more commands in His Word if all law was to be put away? It doesn't make sense. We should expect to see a lawless New Testament devoid of no commands if your belief was actually true. But we know that this is not the case. God desires us to obey Him. That is why there are commands in the New Testament in the first place. God does not change.


...

If rom3:20 only refers to old law as you put it and as you believe. Paul made an incorrect statement

 

[stuart lawrence]

Makes no sense!

If you are led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what is right before God.

If you are not led by the Spirit, then you are led to do what the flesh wants to do.





I'm not under the law of Moses, since it has been abolished in His flesh, being nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14


having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15


JLB

What makes no sense to you made sense to Paul:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin?
Absolutely not, if I rebuild
what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17

 

[JLB777]

What makes no sense to you made sense to Paul:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin?
Absolutely not, if I rebuild
what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17

Aaahhh, the ol change the subject, routine.


Where is the scripture that I asked you to provide, that says follow after the Holy Spirit.


Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB

 

[Dan61861]

There are sins that lead to spiritual death and there are sins that do not lead to spiritual death (1 John 5:16-17). We know these are sins that relate to the spiritual realm of one's right standing with God because how would a believer know if a person is committing a sin that leads to physical death? Is this every time a believer gets sick? Are we to assume that righteous people never get sick and cannot be on death's door?

Also, again, you, Dan, and ToBeLoved have stated numerous times that you do not have to obey the moral law so as to be right with God. You believe that it is your belief on Jesus alone that saves you. I believe that keeping the moral law is necessary as a part of one's right standing with God. Minor transgressions like not taking out the garbage last week, or going over the speed limit a little is not going to condemn a believer. Not all sins lead to spiritual death. There are degrees of sin (Which you prefer to ignore). For there are unforgiveable sins even. Jesus says, there is a greater sin. Jesus said the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law.

Jesus made it very clear that disobedience to certain commands leads to spiritual death (Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 25:14-30, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:26).


...

I see, it's not God that measures sin. It's Jason that decides what sin is what it isn't. By that standard, I understand how you can be sinless.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Aaahhh, the ol change the subject, routine.


Where is the scripture that I asked you to provide, that says follow after the Holy Spirit.


Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB

Pure deflection due to your inability to respond to any points made.
For your benefit I asked you the question using the term: led by the spirit.
It's no good making lengthy posts and quoting much scripture, when you have no answers to questions put concerning the scripture you quote

 

[Dan61861]

Do you not know the scriptures on our flesh either and again, the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

That is why I wrote this, It is the Spirit that sanctifies us. We are washed clean, because the flesh cannot please God.

Can your flesh please God?

It is God that washes us white as snow. It is Christ's righteousness that is imputed onto us that makes us righteous. We believe in Christ. Abraham believed and it was counted as righteousness. Abraham looked forward to his redeemer, we look back towards are redeemer. Christ is that redeemer.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[JLB777]

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

How can the above be true if the law is abolished?

Because the Galatians were being taught, falsely, that they had to become circumcised, and keep the law of Moses in order to be saved.

This was the "other gospel", that Paul said was no Gospel at all.

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9


and again

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Galatians 3:1-4


That is the context, of the statement Paul made in Galatians 5:18, when he said;

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The law here is a reference to the law of Moses.


JLB