The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

No, he is not a sinner, he is a saint, a child of God.

He is joined to the Lord and is one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


On the other hand, Jesus is separate from sinners.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26



JLB

Christians are sinners and saints. Or do you claim to faultlessly obey the law, are you perfect in your flesh?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No Jason I see the the truth.
You didnt tell me if you gouged your eyes out when they caused you to sin in thought or deed.
If you haven't, why are you wilfully sinning by ignoring one of Christ's literal commands?
Don't you love him, is the truth not in you, are you a liar?

When Jesus says we are to pluck out our eyes so as to not look at a woman in lust, it is called a figure of speech. Even in our culture we could be talking about something literal and yet use a word or phrase that is figurative or metaphorical. This is the case because we believers (Who truly follow after Christ) are told that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost. We also know Jesus is speaking literally in Matthew 5:28-30 because we see many other passages using different words of how breaking God's commands leads to spiritual death (Galatians 5:19-21, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:26, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8).


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

When Jesus says we are to pluck out our eyes so as to not look at a woman in lust, it is called a figure of speech. Even in our culture we could be talking about something literal and yet use a word or phrase that is figurative or metaphorical. This is the case because we believers (Who truly follow after Christ) are told that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost. We also know Jesus is speaking literally in Matthew 5:28-30 because we see many other passages using different words of how breaking God's commands leads to spiritual death (Galatians 5:19-21, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:26, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8).


...

You do make me smile.

So do you leap for joy every time you are persecuted?

Answer honestly now, no fibbing

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Christians are sinners and saints. Or do you claim to faultlessly obey the law, are you perfect in your flesh?

The Bible talks about minor transgressions or faults. Jesus says that the Pharisees should have ignored tithing cumin, etc. and they should have had love, faith, justice and mercy, instead (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). The Bible speaks about sins that do not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Bible talks about minor transgressions or faults. Jesus says that the Pharisees should have ignored tithing cumin, etc. and they should have had love, faith, justice and mercy, instead (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). The Bible speaks about sins that do not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).


...

Any transgression of the law is sin. Therefore faultlessly obey it or you commit sin and are a sinner

 

[JLB777]

Can you commit sin and follow after the holy spirit?

If not, are you saying g one must perfectly obey the law in order not to be under it?

When you are led by the Spirit, you are led to do what is righteous.

The Spirit dwells within us, empowering us to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

There are two ways for the Christian to live their life on earth:

• According to the flesh: Practicing the works of the flesh; obeying unrighteousness

• According to the Spirit: Practicing righteousness; obeying the truth.

Look at the context:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


We are to work by the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

When you are led by the Spirit, you are led to do what is righteous.

The Spirit dwells within us, empowering us to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

There are two ways for the Christian to live their life on earth:

• According to the flesh: Practicing the works of the flesh; obeying unrighteousness

• According to the Spirit: Practicing righteousness; obeying the truth.

Look at the context:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


We are to work by the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

Can you respond to the point made in the post you have responded to please
Thanks

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You do make me smile.

So do you leap for joy every time you are persecuted?

Answer honestly now, no fibbing

I do rejoice (I am happy) at times when I am persecuted, .... yes.
The leaping part is a truth in Scripture that I have recently learned about this past week (before you brought it up).
I am still studying it's application for my life.
But can it be literal? Yes. No doubt it more than likely is literal.
A verse should be taken literally unless there is indication in the text that says otherwise.
It's how we construct airplanes and houses and other stuff like that.
Nobody reads literature in a metaphorical way unless it provides metaphorical language.
Unless of course you just hit the "It's metaphorical" button without really thinking about it, instead of praying and seeking the Scriptures for it's meaning. But that is your call of course.

May the Lord bless you this fine day that He has made.


...

 

[JLB777]

Christians are sinners and saints. Or do you claim to faultlessly obey the law, are you perfect in your flesh?

Speak for yourself.

Those who are born of God, "keep themselves", and the wick one does not touch them.


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


You have been fed a pack of lies by a false teacher, please read and study what the scriptures actually say.



JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

I do rejoice (I am happy) at times when I am persecuted, .... yes.
The leaping part is a truth in Scripture that I have recently learned about this past week (before you brought it up).
I am still studying it's application for my life in what the Lord means by that.
But can it be literal? Yes. No doubt it can mean that.
A verse should be taken literally unless there is indication in the text that says othewise.
It's how we construct airplanes and houses and other stuff like that.
Nobody reads literature in a metaphorical way unless it provides metaphorical language.
Unless of course you just hit the "It's metaphorical" button without really thinking about it, instead of praying and seeking the Scriptures for it's meaning. But that is your call of course.

May the Lord bless you today.


...

Not do you sometimes leap for joy do you ALWAYS leap for joy.
The verse doesn't say sometimes you can obey and sometimes you don't have to

You are guilty under your wooden literalist understanding of scripture
Don't you love Jesus? Are you a liar? Is the truth not in you?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Speak for yourself.

Those who are born of God, "keep themselves", and the wick one does not touch them.


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


You have been fed a pack of lies by a false teacher, please read and study what the scriptures actually say.



JLB

Once again you do not respond to the point made.

Do you claim to faultlessly obey the law of God?

Sin is the transgression of the law 1john3:4

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not do you sometimes leap for joy do you ALWAYS leap for joy.
The verse doesn't say sometimes you can obey and sometimes you don't have to

You are guilty under your wooden literalist understanding of scripture
Don't you love Jesus? Are you a liar? Is the truth not in you?

Again, 1 John 2:4 is in reference to serious sin that needs to be confessed so as to be forgiven (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). In John's epistle he stresses a lot about not loving one's brother and not having a eternal life (1 John 3:15). For he that hates his brother is in darkness (1 John 2:9). Paul defines loving others as keeping the moral law (Romans 13:8-10). So when John speaks of sins that do not lead unto death, these would be sins (relating to the breaking of the moral law) that are confessed in 1 John 5. For the brethren are told to pray for the brother who is committing the sin that does not lead unto death. They are to pray so as to give this person LIFE. This would be victory over their breaking the moral law (of course).


...

 

[JLB777]

Can you respond to the point made in the post you have responded to please
Thanks

I did, and was gentle in showing you that being led by the Spirit, means we are led to do what the Spirit of God desires, rather than what our flesh desires.

The Spirit dwells within us, to led, to inspire, to empower us to live a godly life of practicing righteousness.

Contrary to the Spirit, our flesh desires to manifest it's lustful cravings, to practice it's workings, which are listed by Paul in his letters:

the works of the flesh are evident, which are:
adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries, and the like;



When you are led by the Spirit, you are led to do what is righteous.

The Spirit dwells within us, empowering us to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

There are two ways for the Christian to live their life on earth:

• According to the flesh: Practicing the works of the flesh; obeying unrighteousness

• According to the Spirit: Practicing righteousness; obeying the truth.

Look at the context:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


We are to work by the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

Again, 1 John 2:4 is in reference to serious sin that needs to be confessed so as to be forgiven (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). In John's epistle he stresses a lot about not loving one's brother and not having a eternal life (1 John 3:15). For he that hates his brother is in darkness (1 John 2:9). Paul defines loving others as keeping the moral law (Romans 13:8-10). So when John speaks of sins that do not lead unto death, these would be sins that are confessed in 1 John 5. For the brethren are told to pray for the brother who is committing the sin that does not lead unto death. They are to pray so as to give this person LIFE. This would be victory over their sin (of course).


...

You are guilty of failing to obey Christ's commandments Jason. Under your wooden literalist reelingg off of scripture, that means you are a liar, you don't love Christ, the truth is not in you.
That is according to your statements

 

[stuart lawrence]

I did, and was gentle in showing you that being led by the Spirit, means we are led to do what the Spirit of God desires, rather than what our flesh desires.

The Spirit dwells within us, to led, to inspire, to empower us to live a godly life of practicing righteousness.

Contrary to the Spirit, our flesh desires to manifest it's lustful cravings, to practice it's workings, which are listed by Paul in his letters:

the works of the flesh are evident, which are:
adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries, and the like;



When you are led by the Spirit, you are led to do what is righteous.

The Spirit dwells within us, empowering us to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

There are two ways for the Christian to live their life on earth:

• According to the flesh: Practicing the works of the flesh; obeying unrighteousness

• According to the Spirit: Practicing righteousness; obeying the truth.

Look at the context:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


We are to work by the power of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

I will give you one more chance to respond to the question asked then I will ignore you if you cannot do that.
Must you perfectly obey the law/ not commit sin, in order not to be under the law?
Or, do you believe you can follow after the Holy Spirit whilst still committing sin/being a sinner/ being imperfect in the flesh

I don't need lengthy posts with scripture that avoid answering the questions asked

 

[JLB777]

Once again you do not respond to the point made.

Do you claim to faultlessly obey the law of God?

Sin is the transgression of the law 1john3:4

• I claim that I have learned to be led by the Spirit, and to walk according to the Spirit within, so that I am not under the law.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

• I don't walk according to the flesh, whereby the flesh leads my life to practice it's works.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


If you are asking me about breaking any of the commandments, then we can go done the list.

1. Do I worship other gods: No
2. Do I make idols and bow down to them: No
3. Do I take the name of the Lord in vain: Possibly [blurt out Oh Lord Jesus, in traffic]
4. Keep the Sabbath holy: Not like the law of Moses
5. Honor Parents: Yes, but not like Jesus.
6. Murder: No
7. Adultery: No
8. Steal: No
9. Bear false witness against my neighbor: No
10. Covet neighbors belongings: No

I have learned that if I sin, I confess my sin, and He is faithful to forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Must you perfectly obey the law/ not commit sin, in order not to be under the law?
Or, do you believe you can follow after the Holy Spirit whilst still committing sin/being a sinner/ being imperfect in the flesh

Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB

 

[stuart lawrence]

• I claim that I have learned to be led by the Spirit, and to walk according to the Spirit within, so that I am not under the law.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

• I don't walk according to the flesh, whereby the flesh leads my life to practice it's works.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


If you are asking me about breaking any of the commandments, then we can go done the list.

1. Do I worship other gods: No
2. Do I make idols and bow down to them: No
3. Do I take the name of the Lord in vain: Possibly [blurt out Oh Lord Jesus, in traffic]
4. Keep the Sabbath holy: Not like the law of Moses
5. Honor Parents: Yes, but not like Jesus.
6. Murder: No
7. Adultery: No
8. Steal: No
9. Bear false witness against my neighbor: No
10. Covet neighbors belongings: No

I have learned that if I sin, I confess my sin, and He is faithful to forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.



JLB

Coveting is also lusting/ having impure thoughts, desiring anything or anyone that is notyoursto have

Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB

If you are led by the Spirit you follow after the Spirit dont you?
Cant have a debate if you are just going to avoid answering questions asked

 

[JLB777]

Coveting is also lusting/ having impure thoughts, desiring anything or anyone that is notyoursto have

I have learned to set my mind on the things of the Spirit, not on fleshly, carnal things.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5


JLB

 

[JLB777]

If you are left the Spirit you follow after the By Spirit do you?
Can have a debate if you are just going to avoid answering questions asked

Please show me the scripture that says follow after the Holy Spirit, you are referring to.

I'm not familiar with that scripture.


JLB